🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hairmageddon looms...

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Thread 11

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

FEBRUARY 2018: The month of February sucks. Period. We’re sick of winter and the state of our finances, some are embracing frugality (in different shapes and forms) but water bills and car maintenance are ruining our buzz. Hair appointments need to be made despite the palpitations of fear that the mere thought incites. Oh, and skin texture. As you were...

Just looked at link. The product looks good and not too expensive. Think I'll be paying more to get it delivered here!!! Will investigate. Thank you

Sallie I have a mirena coil and haven’t had a period for years so it’s possible I’m actually post menopause but don’t know. The only symptoms I have are occasional rages, no flushes as yet. So I’m either very lucky or the shitstorm has yet to fully arrive. My cheeks have always been on the pink side, I’ve always suffered wind burn after a relatively short time outside and always blushed easily.

Not had a good look for a dermatologist yet, just a quick google, but like you, would prefer recommendations. I don’t know of anyone who’s seen one. Feel unsure about it - is it expensive, will they try to push expensive products, will they be more interested in selling cosmetic procedures (not something that interests me). I’ll do more research and ask friends, maybe one uses one but keeps it quiet. I did read something a few minutes ago that recommended checking the name against the GMC register, and that there are some out there that are not what they claim to be. Not helping with the anxiety . Never expected to need one, I’ve gone from being almost completely disinterested in skin care and make up to wearing red lipstick and wanting a dermatologist in less than a month!!!

Talking of feet, I think I'll use Footner socks tonight. Then they'll be finished doing their peely thing by the time I have my haircut and then I'll go for my toes painted the next day. Will be nice to feel fully groomed Top to toe. I'm pretty good at manicures now but can't for the life of me paint my own toenails.

Pupsie erm, definitely can’t claim that vigorous exercise is a trigger! But I can definitely use it as an excuse for not starting any

I used footner once Enid but can't say I was that impressed. I also got coxaki (I think that's hand, foot and mouth disease in English) so my feet ended up peeling anyway.... hope you get lovely smooth tootsies though

mrsD - I always go bright red after exercise. It's not pretty

Bo - inspired by your recommendation and the link (plus my desire to get rid of these red marks), I've just ordered that vit c. Delivery didn't work out too expensive actually. It will arrive mid-March - beg April though so got to be patient!!

I saw my dermatologist after a GP referral. That was with private health cover. Where are you based? Mine was in Surrey.

Sophie oh my goodness, I’d forgotten to mention that I look like a tomato after exercise. It really isn’t a good look is it

MrsD perfectly reasonable to ask for a dermatology referral if you say you think you’ve got rosacea (but I know what you mean). I’m not sure however whether GP would normally prescribe something themselves for it and not refer. Realistically, NHS dermatologists probably have huge waiting lists for ‘non urgent’ things like dermatitis and rosacea as they need to see suspected skin cancer cases quickly.

Just recalling how my referral went. He was a bit baffled because it wasn't typical rosacea. I had a really nasty, sore, persistent patch from my nose down to my mouth on one side. Over about a 2 month period we tried various different things but it got no better (and some things made it worse) and it really started to affect my emotionally. It was December and I remember not wanting to go to social gatherings. Hence after drawing a blank with various meds he referred me. Turned out it was rosacea with a type of dermatitis over the top. The derm diagnosed within minutes and within a month it was gone.

Sophie I'm a footner fan. It worked best the very first time but still gives me very smooth feet with snowy white nail tips for a while after each use. Mine are pretty good to start with, as feet go. I think it works better on proper crusty 🤢 trotters.

Thanks everyone for all the feedback and suggestions. I'm also making my way through the previous threads so hopefully I'll get up to speed soon, I hate asking questions that I'm sure have been covered over and over.
SallieSallow I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the Ha.
Bo I've been looking into Japanese skin care since reading your recommendations in the earlier threads.

Can I join in please?

I've gone from zero skincare to 60 mph by starting tretinoin at night, and am using it most nights now, with a moisturiser after.

I have just finished up two morning serums I bought form TK Maxx, one was a vitamin C by Skin Pasion, which was lovely, and the other was by Lange and I'm looking for a vitamin C serum for mornings and possibly a.n. other serum.

I'm not a big fan of moisturiser, I hate my skin to feel moist or tacky, and I like stuff to disappear into my skin completely. I'm a typical redhead with sensitive, type 1 very pale skin with freckles. In my forties.
I use Biore watery ss.

Can anyone recommend a good vitamin C and possibly another serum for mornings please?

Hello BarrackerBarmer (love your name!)
I'm sure someone far more knowledgable will be along soon but here is the list of vitamin C serums I have compiled from these threads:

Vichy Lift Activ Vitamin C Brightening Skin Corrector (15%) (1 month shelf life once opened (keep in fridge) - I think this will be my next purchase. Bo has used this for sure.

Skinceuticals CE ferulic (15%) – great but pretty pricey. Again I know Bo has used this and recommends. I do recall that someone on this thread or an old one didn't really rate it though but can't remember why.

Active Formulas Vitamin C serum 15% or 20% (start with 15%) - also has HA.

Skin Deva vitamin C serum with ferulic acid +E

Paula’s Choice RESIST C15 super booster

Medik8 Tetra

Medik 8 CE thione 15%

TO Vitamin C - I think JDSTER was using this but wasn't that impressed if I recall and will replace it with something else (the Medik 8 thione?). Think people say it is a bit sticky?

Mentholatum Melano CC Intensive Anti-Spot Essence – this is for red marks left by spots. It says it can be used all over the face but contains fragrance so could be irritating. I've just ordered this for my red marks.

I'm sure one of the others will have something to add and can advise you better. Another serum for morning would be a hyaluronic acid (HA) one. I just bought the Vichy 89 Mineral one and will try it out today!

Bo has made some great info sheets which are at the beginning of this thread. The anti-ageing one goes through routines too and has a helpful table too.

Enid hhhmmm perhaps I should try footer again. I try to look after my feet: regular manicures and try to remember to use Flexitol every night. Dancing makes them hard though (still, don't think I'm in crusty trotters territory yet )

Argh
*footner

• pedicures

I have tried several Vit C's but the only one I get on with is the Drunk Elephant one, which I love. I have red in my hair and freckles too.

, very helpful as that summary is Sophie, when someone comes on the thread with a prescription it's important to know where they got it from as a dermatologist will usually 'prescribe' a regime to go with it in which case it generally shouldn't be the place of this thread to meddle with that beyond recommending something that would fit within that prescribed regime.

If the prescription is bought without a prescription then I subsequently go shouty caps as it's just an irresponsible step, especially if knowledge of skincare is limited, and this thread should not be acting in place of a medical professional guiding you through the use of a prescription drug. I really don't want people unintentionally worsening their skin condition or damaging it beyond repair. (A small exception is made for those residing in Spain and those who have been described something else by a GP with absolutely no helpful guidance and are unlikely to get any).

So in short, Barracker, some additional info needed first, please.

MrsD, as others have said for the rosacea a GP is usually the first port of call but has its limitations. If you're uncomfortable with this as an initial step, I would still phone up the GP's office and ask the assistant if they've got contact info for a private dermatologist they would recommend. Disclaimer, I'm not in the UK but this is quite normal here.

For tret it's a bit more complex as it's not really available in the UK in any pharmacy. You can pretty much only get it from Harley Street Derms (and similar elsewhere but I gather it's slim pickings) who import it from Germany. I think the easiest way to source some (albeit costly for the actual prescription, a derm consulation is going to be pricey no matter what, but probably slightly less than HS outside of London) is to check the Obagi Medical locations (not to be confused with the Zein Obagi brand) for your nearest sales point as they sell the only 'cosmetic' prescription tretinoin in the UK. They'll often try to sell you on the entire Obagi Nu Derm system, I'd resist heavily as it's all very expensive and just stick it out for the prescription and general advice. Some are more spa-like cosmetic settings, others wider practicing derms so it just sort of depends on what type they are and therefore also would be useful for the rosacea. Ideally, you'd get one of the latter as rosacea and tret are not always compatible, so the possibility of rosacea really is the first thing to have looked at properly.

Oh gosh sorry everyone and Barracker.

I didn't pick up in the fact that you have been properly prescribed Tretinoin.

Btw ones looking at the ingredients of the Vichy vitamin C today and saw it contains alcohol (alcohol denat.). Would this not be drying to my skin?

Thanks Pupsie. I will add the drunk elephant to my own private list of vitamin C serums (which I will not be circulating again )

Thanks for responses all.

I have no skin condition and use tretinoin only for anti aging.

Re the tret: years ago, a dermatologist suggested retin-A 0.05% as an anti-aging measure, in fact he recommended it for pretty much everybody and used it himself, demonstrating for me in his clinic how much to use etc. He offered a private prescription at the time and I now choose to source it directly instead. I'm satisfied with the authenticity and strength of my Retin A. It's as simple as that. I understand the need for sunscreen.

I am simply following the recommendation of a dermatologist, but sourcing the tretinoin myself. If I lived in Spain I'd pop into a pharmacy and buy it OTC. In the UK we pop into any supermarket and pick up enough paracetamol to kill an adult for less than a pound; in France you have to purchase via a pharmacy.

Different countries have different risk assessments for drugs.
I'm an adult, I have chosen this route. I'm not sure why this would provoke shouty caps?

What are your concerns, exactly? I'd like to have the discussion without the shouty caps though!

This vitamin C serum looks strong www.theheroproject.co.uk/vit-c-brightening-serum.html 30% vit C apparently but can't find a full ingredients list unless the active ingredients list is it.

A nice big chunky pot of Vichy clay mask arrived today. The 15ml sample pot lasted 4-5 months so this will last ages! Have put some on my nose and either side of chin. It's the only clay mask I've tried that doesn't cause drying problems or next day breakouts.

I'll leave the shouty caps for what they are, Barracker, promise. My issue is generally that it's treated as any old cream when it's not. The need for SPF is often overlooked in terms of reapplication throughout the day and strength (I personally wouldn't feel completely protected with Biore Watery Essence outdoors for example, esp. since you're so fair), that you have to weigh up the risks of summer use, work up strength and use, that you're choosing the right formulation for skin type, etc. You've had the consultation with a derm and I assume you had a conversation regarding the pros and cons, you know which strength to start off with, they've demonstrated how much to use, etc. More crucially, someone has seen your skin in the flesh and considered you a suitable candidate. The bottom line for me is, randoms on the internet shouldn't play doctor. Exchange and compare experiences, perfectly fine, but there is a tendency to throw around the mantra that prescription tretinoin is the only thing that works and don't bother with anything else, so just get that. Which, whilst all technically true, doesn't quite cover the breadth and suitably of it for all.

Don't worry, Sophie, it's fine and you don't have to hold back posting helpful lists and knowing more of Barracker's background now I'm sure it will be quite helpful. Barracker, I'd just hold back on introducing Vit C if you've only recently started on the RetinA. The ones you've used previously (did you link the correct one from Lange, it doesn't appear to be a Vit C serum?) aren't anything like the Vitamin C serums mentioned above, almost all have the potential to irritate due to their low pH and high L-AA content, and RetinA does tend to sensitise the skin. The Medik8 CE Tetra (not L-AA but a derivative) would be the safest pick, I'm just trying to remember if it had a tacky feel or not, I think slightly oily when going on but then disappearing soon enough without residue, but not a 100% on that. Are you dealing with any sort of peeling or excessively dry skin at all at the moment? I think a simple hydrating serum would be helpful as light layers of moisture do tend to help with tret peel but you mention not liking anything moist on your skin.

Sophie, I had worried about the alcohol den. in the Vichy formula too, it's there as a penetration enhancer and not too high up the INCI. I haven't found it drying and normally things with AD will do that to me, but I'm fine with it in sunscreens too, so it's a really a formulation thing.

Enid, the hero project one is Ethylated AA, NIOD also has/had one, I've never seen much love for it as a Vit C L-AA derivative. I'd expect it to be an oily serum, so probably no HA in it but it does contain some essential citrus oils by the look of it.

Thanks for not shouting Bo!

I've been using the retinA since Oct/Nov, and have worked slowly up to 5/6 nights a week. I no longer really peel and actually am really happy with the difference so far. My skin isn't dry or sore.

The vitamin C was possibly not hugely active, but it was lovely to use! It was: this
The Lange wasn't also a vitamin C; just an impulse buy to see if a £100 serum (bought cheaply in TK Maxx) could make me grow wings and a halo...it was lovely, nonetheless.

I've been experimenting with the cheapie Aldi Cuvee serum, but I'm not much of a fan I don't think.

Sophie, no need to apologise. You were just trying to be helpful. I think it's very refreshing to have newbies on the thread, and I love how you're reading back over all the previous threads, and getting stuck in etc. (Not meant to sound patronising but it might come across that way!).

Also when you post snippets of things from old threads it's a lovely trip down skincare memory lane ❤️

I found the list helpful anyway. My terrible memory needs a bit of help.

bo That's helpful thank you. I won't bother with it. Medik8 is still Top of the list. Must admit it was the packaging of the Hero one that caught my eye. So shallow. 😎