I think I'm becoming middle aged 'invisible' woman. Can anything be done?

[ProperLavs]

I turn 50 this month and have noticed, or perhaps I am choosing to notice , that when I am in shops sales assistants appear not to see me anymore. Not that long ago I would be pounced on and hassled, which although incredibly annoying I would rather that than be ignored.
I have heard that woman start to become 'invisible' as they age.
I think I look younger than my years, dress in a trendy but not silly way, certainly don't look frumpy, but something is happening.
Can anything be done?(Apart from wearing oversized sparkly glasses and a clown outfit).
if this has happened to you did you find a way round it?

Proper - I realise this isn't the main point of your post, but not all sales people are rubbish. (I used to be a fantastic one ). Selfridges is a funny old place in a way. By this I mean it is a major shopping tourist attraction which means that some (not all) of the staff who work for big, well known cosmetic brands don't feel the need to be particularly 'helpful'. It used to be known as 'cash and wrap' - no effort is needed for a sale as the footfall is huge and customers come in with a list (sometimes as long as your arm) of things to buy. Good training comes into play here though which seems to be lacking with some companies. Having said that, I had wonderful customer service from a delightful woman on the Trish Mcevoy counter last weekend in Selfridges. And I will go back to HER because of this. (To add, I was ignored on another counter there, almost started rifling in the drawers to get what I wanted!) ended up going to Fenwicks, for the other item (had to buy it for a friend's bday present, otherwise wouldn't have bothered). So vote with your feet! And hey, we're lucky to have reached our 50's aren't we? I mean, what's the alternative? xxx

remus I really do think that the fact that I did look somewhat dishevelled with 2 children in toe had an impact on whether he saw ££££ or not.

full thanks for that. I know there are great SAs too and it must be really hard work putting your best side forward day in day out. I wouldn't be able to do it.
Yes I will vote with my feet.
Actually I tend to buy online mostly.
I'm trying to get rid of stuff that doesn't actually make me feel good when I wear it.
Yes I am lucky to have got this far, I just can't believe where the time has gone though

Goodness, I know what you mean about wondering where the time has gone! It's crazy!
It's good that you're having a declutter - think a lot of us have a tendancy to hold onto clothes too long.
Re shopping online, that's great, though I've just remembered (for cosmetics) Liz Earle. Always lovely customer service with them - walk out feeling really cheered and pampered - Here's to you and all other glorious women feeling fab xxx

thank you full. However, I have also been spending in order to soothe my soul

I'm 28 and have already entered that invisible stage. I have an average mum bod. Not fat, not thin. Hardly wear any makeup and have no fashion sense left. Even on a night out I look like I'm going to a job interview. I've lost the ability to human.

"I find this interesting. I'm still young enough that I shouldn't become "invisible" for a long time. I really like how I look (my face anyway- when it comes to clothes I can be a bit of a victim) but I honestly don't see anyone giving me a second glance, and I never have done. I'm a size 12 with boobs and a face full of makeup. Women say they don't get attention and men stop checking them out - I'm baffled. I've never noticed a man checking me out in my life. Once I tried to catch their eyes just to check, and they were definitely looking at the ground. I don't get compliments or people noticing my appearance either. Even on my wedding day,nobody complimented me

I very much suspect I'm on the spectrum, to be honest, so I wonder if I don't pick up on body language or something"

[custardcreamplease Sat 02-Sep-17 19:54:54]

That's consistent with autism. Very few people believe me about how little sexual/romantic attention I've ever got. There's no reason for it to be so much less than other women apparently get. But in addition to not noticing very subtle attention, I think we give off different "vibes" or something that means we get less of it, or different kinds.

I know I come across as unusually intense due to my autism, which can be a good thing in terms of getting noticed/remembered in a general way, but not in terms of getting positive attention, which I could do with, frankly. Other autistic people may be unusually lacking in intensity, meaning people don't "see" them.

Which brings me onto the OP. I'm not going to deny that across the board this invisibility due to age is something that happens. But it might be possible to offset it, at least a little, by changing your "presence". Holding yourself differently, trying to project an air of quiet, benevolent power.

But that's easier said than done. And I think that often, if you've spent your life being one way, it's pretty unpleasant to feel like you "have" to change to get people to keep treating you as well as they did. Because they just should.

That probably wasn't much help, sorry. I do sympathise, is what I'm trying to say.

I've been there Proper - It's nice to treat ourselves sometimes and it's your birthday soon. But how else can you 'soothe your soul' that doesn't cost money?
Maybe a long walk somewhere beautiful, meeting a friend who makes you laugh and you can talk to? Watching a great film with you children?
xxx

western thanks you- that's exactly it. I have been looking into holding myself differently. I have read that woman hold their faces differently as they age. Their chins sort or slide back and down,(turtle look) whereas young people hold their chins forward and up ( think beautiful haughtiness).
I have to make sure that I am not physically shrinking away from people too in my body language. I'm not sure about how to get the benevolent power stance but I do like the sound of it!

I agree when you watch people you often notice a difference in the way younger and older women hold themselves. It's hard to describe and more than just posture. I imagine it's partly physical changes but it can also look as if older women are apologising for taking up space

So, if you are dishevelled and have children with you and aren't dripping in jewellery then you are invisible?

I have always been a cracking moose - none of this 'leggy long-haired knockout in my yoof' for me. I never feel invisible - to people on buses, shop assistants, bartenders etc. I'm 42 with a 5yo, have embraced the grey and have hit-and-miss days of clothes coordination.

I'm as visible as i have always been.

disneydatknee you have lost the ability to conform to society's rules of what women should look like. Or perhaps don't give a shit

But please don't feel you've lost the ability to be human.

I totally understand you OP.

I don't have difficulty being served at counters etc but somehow or other I notice I'm invisible, as you say. No one pays attention and yes, I think I could turn to a life of crime and I ^just wouldn't get noticed'. It's quite fascinating. It's like I don't matter or something. Not worth noticing. I think it happened a few years ago. Not that many years ago and I'm 50 now.

I mostly think I get served fairly promptly, in fact more promptly than before. Except in Zara where no one notices me. It's like people/shop assistants assume I won't want anything now that I'm 'that' age. Or that there's a sort of patronizing that happens. Something like, 'well you're not going to know', or going to 'want' anything. Maybe that's it, people think we have no 'wants'.

Actually I remember the first time I noticed it. Kids were small, I had an issue with my phone, went to the phone shop. The 18yo assistant muttered something about her parents being the same (with phones, and continued to serve me but somehow just didn't pay attention/notice to me. I was fascinated. Am used to it now.

I haven't noticed retail staff ignores me. But surely it's not age but the shop? If you go into topshop, you don't look likely you are a customer. Conversely if you are in John Lewis, then you are more likely to buy as a 50yo vs a 20yo?

Also, you probably don't notice it because you use Mrs. You are old the moment you became a Mrs whether you have a ring on your finger or not.

It happens around early 40s. Suddenly I'm a Mrs from everyone in shops. It's highly irritating and a visible sign they say you are pass it.

I've just turned 50 and have to admit I haven't been ignored yet! Saying that I've always been so focused on wanting to buy every single thing in the shop I probably haven't noticed. Generally, I get a nice hello but it's nice to go shopping and not be hassled (especially when I'm feeling crap). Enjoy the fact you can wonder around uninterrupted and when you need help, you'll ask for it. I agree with HeadDreamer, it's probably more about the shop than you.

This is a rather timely piece,

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4848910/How-NOT-Invisible-woman.html

Rafaella's been reading the thread then

Wesrernmeadowlark that's really interesting. It's the same for me. Minimal male attention. Looking back at pictures, for a few years I was actually one of the prettier ones in my group of friends, yet they had men flocking to them and I had no one. They sensed my "offness" I suppose.
Used to ask my friends what I was doing wrong and they'd really struggle to find a reason, saying something like "it's just...you". I've never had a man ask for my number. I'm very happily married, but DH and I were friends for a long time first. Luckily it's never particularly bothered me, except in a detached interest sort of way

I've definitely noticed this recently, but I'm 10 years younger than the OP

In some respects it's a welcome relief: low level sexual harassment has pretty much disappeared for me. But the only bar I get served at promptly now is at the golf club (where I am one of the younger ones there)

So, for those of use who know we're less visible and who mind, can we do anything?

The article is about not being chatted up at a party where you don't know anyone (whilst the rest do know eachother)

Well, that would be the case for lots of people, of any age, imo!

Selfridges is weird. They always pounce on me the minute I walk in. I think sales reps probably know who they can and can't get away making an aggressive sell to.

As for what we could do.... this is going to sound preachy and I realise you were probably thinking more of style tips but I think we need to challenge more; no need to be aggressive with it but 'Excuse me but I'm here too' spoken calmly but clearly.

We could also all try and rethink our own attitudes. We could stop using 'old' 'middle aged' 'granny' etc as synonyms for 'dull' or 'ugly', stop using 'young' as if it's some kind of achievement.

We could consider how we behave towards people older than outselves. Are we treating them like young people treat us? I know I'm guilty of that,

Failing that, there are always the healing powers of nice clothes - especially if it's something you couldn't have afforded when you were young

I agree Floisme.
Society dismisses older women as having little value. It's very obvious on MN with the MIL threads and the 'an old biddy touched my baby' posts.

I don't get this either (the experience or the emotions of the OP.)
I still get pounced on in stores at beauty counters. I hate it. I want to browse, try stuff on my hands etc. The counter I hate most is Clinique because they have a speech 'What brings you to the Clinique counter today' Oh just FO is what I want to say.

I also still get approached by men in shops, out walking, on public transport.

I had one bad experience at the Benefit counter where the asst said something like ' This is what the younger customers use' or implied I was shopping for my DD. Bitch. I don't like Benefit anyway. It's rubbish.