Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

Didn't realise you could take retinoids orally. That's a fantastic result Felix!

user I've given my magnifying mirror to DH. I got a bit obsessed looking up close at every pore. There's just no need.

Ha ha Enid! It's the one in the downstairs bathroom, which faces east, that gives me the shocks. Maybe I'll just go in there in the afternoons when the light is less frightening, wearing sunglasses.

User No-one needs that first thing in the morning. I bet even Beyoncé wouldn't look in it.

So having googled what I had after using the azelaic and the cicaplast were hives. But only on the exact spots that the cicaplast had touched. Although I'm sure I used a little bit of cicaplast on a spot where the acid was last night and it was fine.

I might cautiously try the acid again tomorrow night as it really does get rave reviews. Wish I could figure out why it happened though.

so despite all my lovely products, my skin in now worse than ever (the gp has given me differin...). I had been introducing things slowly and was using:
the LRP toleriane dermocleanser in the morning
TO hyaluronic acid
facae theory M4
LRP tinted moisturiser (not new)

in the pm
TO buffet (gave me spots very quickly so didn't keep going for long)
face theory M4
TO retinoid (but only for a few days)

and everything has gone very wrong :-( I have huge cystic acne everywhere inc jawline (where I would occasionally get a few, but nothing like this) but also around my lips and in the middle of my cheeks. Add in the redness now caused by the differin I look delightful!

I have stripped everything back out and gone back to the dregs of my art naturals retinoid serum that I have used for ages and my salicylic acid aveeno in the pm and the manuka doctor blemish cream in the am. Will see what happens.

The tiny ray of sunshine in all of this is that I have discovered Dr Jart cicapair which I bought in desperation (£££) and which arrived this morning. It is very strange (quite thick and needs rubbing in, and goes on green but fades to nude, but really does even out redness and does a very good job of hiding blemishes on its own) but makes my skin look soooo much better, but obviously this is day 1 so I hope it continues, and all the good things it promises for my skin will actually materialise.

Has anyone else had the TO stuff totally break them out?

Hi Sillybilly
TO stuff and all NIOD range seems to like me (blackheads in sunspots appeared before using so not that). As far as I'm aware, if you have problems then you can contact TO and return for a refund. Don't know any more details but seen a post on Victoria Health about it.

Silly I have had issues with some TO products but not the ones you have. It's very individual unfortunately. How long have you been using differin (and gel or cream)? I think its quite common for skin to get worse before it gets better using it. Are there any specific ingredients that you know you have problems with? Stripping back sounds sensible atm. Hope it clears up soon!

Hyluronic acid breaks me out Silly. I avoid it now. Don't know if that might've added to your flare up. Sorry you're having a hard time with it. So frustrating when you're trying your hardest and it goes wrong. Fingers crossed for the differin.

Long term lurker but thought i'd let those who are interest know THE CONCEALER is £32 at TKMaxx!

www.tkmaxx.com/skincare-/botanic-eye-concealer-15ml/invt/42419568

Ooh I would be tempted by that TK Maxx bargain alright. I just don't think I could choose a shade, 1 or 2? I am usually MAC NW15-20, and in drugstore foundation shades I always go second up from the lightest shade! (No 2 in Collection concealer). Any ideas?

I only picked up the Differin on Saturday Dulcimena and although I am getting some dry patches it is now going as badly as I thought as I am usually very allergic to such things. Today I have no new spots but we shall see what happens overnight. The serum that I have used for ages has hyaluronic acid it but maybe that has actually been a cause of the problem.

Can anyone recommend a serum that has nothing in it but will still work wonders .

Thanks MrsD. I've wondered about it for a while. I use undereye concealer every day so for that price it would be rude not to. Free delivery with click and collect.

Miffy just seen your post. I think no 1 shade is quite 'illuminating' and although no 2 looks a bit orangey it's not when on (I hope cos that's what I've ordered!) No 2 seems to be the shade everyone recommends.

Thank you , JDSTER. That makes sense. I just have to decide whether to pull the trigger LOL.

I'm tempted by the concealer too but I'm so so pale white. I'm pretty sure I'll be shade 1. I know it's not as dark in real life and peach is good to cancel out the blue but I'm probably about 3-4 shades paler than most if you with the 2. I wonder if my local one will have some in at the weekend...

If it is any use Enid, the Sisley counter told me 2 would be for when you have a tan. I have tested twice at the counter with them. I would have drifted towards 2 but 1 is fine. Am not the palest woman ever tho.

That price V tempting! Might go home via tk maxx this pm in case they have it in store in dublin.

There's only one left on TKMaxx apprently!! Yikes!

You know silly, I have found none of the new skin care works for me on my neck. I get mahooosive spots. I've quit bringing it down but my fingers do drift under my chin and give me breakouts. I find TO niacinamide vg for it.

I suppose I could keep going and get all the oil out but for me it's not worth the pain. My neck looks fine.

Now the niacinamide did also cause some purging and was too drying ultimately for my face (but I still use it as a spot treatment), but more oily plugs popping out than big spots.

Other than that the green cattier mask used on oily parts and bha have been great.

You don't mention any acid? Maybe when your skin is healed, bha to clear your skin is where you should start?

I'm sure Bo will have some ideas!

I'm almost certainly not shade 2 then. I'll wait and test a bit at a counter.

Teeny bit of p50w on lumpy patch and it appears to have gone right down today. I only have a little bit left so might take a deep breath at put it all over forehead and cheeks tomorrow. If that's ok then I'll get a bottle.

Catching up before I completely fall off the face of the Mumsnet planet. I have lots of linkey things for the Sunday Supplement that I missed but I'll save them up. Apparently, the entire AB community is properly pissed with Caroline Hirons after being mean about snails .

Caution definitely warranted when starting P50W, 1-2x a week max to start with and pretty much that for 2 weeks (going from damp to dry cotton). Only increase use if necessary after that.

Wilting you do tend to have a lot of adverse reactions we never really understand, wondering if you're not suffering from a compromised barrier too, especially since the TO HA was so drying on you.

Lego, you really need to check the INCI on those, PC release a lot of the same formulations within the different lines with different names but it's the same product. Iirc the Clear Extra Strength is the same as the 2% Perfecting Liquid but the Clear Regular Strength is different and more helpful with some. Though it might be the case that PC just isn't the BHA manufacturer for you and the CosRx BHA is the thing for you?

Stainless, the CosRx Whitening Power (as it's now called I believe, bad, bad, translation ) is not really comparable to P50, different types of acid, it's more in the N+F and Pixi Glow stratosphere. I didn't realise it until recently when copy/pasting the P50 INCI for Enid, but P50 is a PHA + AHA formulation which there aren't too many of. I don't know if the PHA is the thing that makes it magical but it has a very high concentration of it. The Missha pads I mentioned also has PHA but in far lower concentrations, I've yet to order it but I suspect this will come somewhat close to P50 albeit a milder version of it (and since pads are somewhat uneconomical will probably work out to a similar/same price).

user...591 with all the additional questions it's probably easier to use the form so we know your skin type and other relevant info.

Silly, the TO HA + B5 is a known offender on here and why I'm always hesitant to recommend it unless someone is truly oily. The facetheory moisturiser you used has Retinol so really shouldn't have been used alongside TO Retinoid. The Retinol in the moisturiser may have been responsible for purging, it may also have been a reaction to an ingredient like HA. Deciem is quite fond of the Low Molecular Weight variety which can be irritating to some. Can you tell when you started reacting to what, since you did mention introducing everything very gradually? It sounds sensible to return to things that worked for you, I think you had a bit of bad luck with the facetheory moisturiser, the formulation looks somewhat heavy for combination skin (and iirc you were far more on the combo-oily side) but curious to hear where it veered off course. Were you using sunscreen? Wrt serum, if we're talking hydration without HA there are options out there but it's probably best to let your skin settle down a bit first I think.

It appears TKMaxx owes TheNewMrsD some commission . Although if this means it's being discontinued and you lot have already bought it all up I will be properly bereft

@PersisFord , and this goes for bellissimiaow too, as it pertains to using glycolic acid products with alcohol delivery systems. I’m not a big proponent of Glycolic acid with sensitive skin as it can further sensitise the skin. The alcohol as the penetrating agent makes me more wary of it as it increases the effect. Of all the AHAs it has the smallest molecular structure meaning its most effective in a very immediate sense (hence all the raving about glycolic products), however, it’s mostly short term gain and it is very dependant on your skin’s ability to restore after use (and the use of a standalone SPF with this is just the bare minimum). How well your skin balances this equilibrium of exfoliation and restoration determines long term success with it. Sensitive skin usually has a harder time with this so a gentler AHA makes sense (lactic, mandelic, PHA, etc.) Doesn’t mean glycolic is a bad ingredient or one to avoid but it just makes it more suited to hardy skin that has a good recovery rate.

Back to Persis specifically: you’re a self confessed cleanse/exfoliator fanatic. Thing is, much like using an ill suited acid, attacking sensitive/delicate skin with a lot of cleansing/exfoliating causes it to become more sensitive/aggravated and if this then inspires the idea that ‘higher strength’ skincare is needed to fix that which you’re causing, you’re stuck in a vicious cycle that doesn’t deliver any long term improvement. “Very rough and dry” is a rather accurate description of the result of this.

Be gentle and kind to your skin and avoid the most common skin irritants.

I'm linking previously given general advice in the following google docs so I don't need to continually repeat it:

Basics of an Actives Routine

Where to Start

AM

wash with Simple face wash gel (it's horrible) LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser, much gentler. Use with flannel and lukewarm water at the sink (I repeat quite often that the shower is the worst place to cleanse skin but just in case it’s been overlooked I'm saying it again)
TO Buffet or Hylamide SubQ
use DH's Clinique moisturiser ← well if it works for you nothing really wrong with it but you may want something of your own? I’m reluctant to rec anything currently as I suspect you’re more likely a dehydration sufferer than actual dry skin sufferer, so stick with this whilst you introduce other things slowly.
Clinique City block.

PM

Clinique TTDO balm (sort of optional, you don’t wear much but when you move abroad and will be going heavy on SPF, especially water resistant/proof varieties you’ll want a good oil based cleanser to get this off).
Repeat as above, minus SPF.
You may see some benefit from a simple facial oil in the PM too(as in ‘a simple’, not the Simple brand, generally find that rubbish for sensitive skin). Possibly consider TO Nia 10% further down the line to use in the PM on top or in place of the HA serum.

I’m reluctant to recommend you too much as you’ll be moving soon and geography/climate will make a big difference to your skin. So you may be dry now (though I suspect it’s more dehydration) and be even dryer there or come out completely oily. In terms of SPF, for long time outdoors use I’d be giving the Bioderma Photoderm Mineral a try, there’s probably a few more that would be more cosmetically elegant but I think you’ll have to a rotate a few (so a ‘commuter’ SPF for minimum exposure, an extended outdoors one, a waterproof one, etc.) There’s a few new ones being released from France (in Japan too but if you’re going to somewhere like Australia and spending a lot of time outdoors you’ll want something with a high PPD rating which the French perform better on generally, albeit slightly less cosmetically elegant).

Nip + Fab pads can be used up on the body (handy for KP, post epilation, etc.) but if you do wish to use them I would say keep it to 1x a week, 2x at most. Also of note, in the summer time I tend to cut back on acid toning as it is photosensitising and sun exposure is at its highest then, some people stop all together, especially if particularly sensitive to the sun. So that would be another thing to take in consideration with the move.

@bellissimiaow , don’t worry, you have some sort of routine. Almond oil to cleanse isn’t a mortal sin and quite good for those with sensitive skin (though it may be too heavy if you’re clog prone) and men’s moisturiser isn’t spectacularly different to others (usually just packaging and incidentally scent). If your current moisturiser is working for you I don’t really see any need to change that. With sensitive/rosacea prone skin less is definitely more so let that be your guide.

Have a read through of the two docs I linked for Persis too.

Cleanser, LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser is probably a good AM and second PM cleanser (if your wear makeup, you can still use the almond oil as a first cleanser)

You can have a look at the PC CALM serum mentioned upthread (ordering a few samples probably the easiest) it should suit sensitive/rosacea skin whilst providing a good amount of hydration too.

For SPF, look at a mineral one preferably (best for sensitive/rosacea, though some do fine with chemical filters mineral is usually the starting point), so the Neostrata SPF is a good but pricey one, the Bioderma Photoderm Mineral should also be a good one to try.

See my response to Persis wrt thoughts on sensitive skin using glycolic acid. Glycolic is also generally more of interest to dry/normal skin. BHA is often recommended for rosacea (and combo/oily) as its anti-inflammatory but if it’s not active it is worth considering whether there is a need for it or not. The PC Resist Anti-Aging Multi-Correction Treatment Azelaic + BHA would make a good allrounder if the rosacea is more present and/or suffering with breakouts and/or pigmentation.

I know the PC doesn’t exactly come in at the lower end of budgets, TO would have some alternatives but you’d probably end up having to buy a few things so in the end I don’t think you’d come in all that cheaper. Should note that the PC products contain silicones (the CALM serum very little but that can’t be said of the Azelaic + BHA) and not everyone tolerates those well.

If you’re looking for an alternative moisturiser I’d say have a look at the Eucerin ULTRASensitive for Combo skin.

Hello bo

Can I ask, do you have any idea why I had a hives type reaction to the combination of azelaic acid and cicaplast b5? Both products are fine when used separately. I waited 20 mins before dotting the cicaplast on. Tried both on a tiny patch last night and had the same reaction, it went after washing them off.

Glad to see you post, Bo, I was a little worried about you. Everything alright?

My sugar free thing is going ok but I'm trying to finalise a big presentation, there's a leak in the kitchen (not a euphemism sadly) and I really really fancy a Snickers. Skin's doing alright though, to keep it all on topic.

Amazing, thank you!!!

I'm off to Boots!! I'll feed back.