Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

---

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

@botemp any LRP cleanser that's good for a PM makeup removal? Or Avene maybe
I have £20 of boots vouchers and a hankering for the 3 for 2 offer. Was going to get a simple AM cleanser, a PM makeup removing one and a plain moisturiser

I have just managed to catch up with this thread in time for a new one lol because I want to participate dammit! Am reading the Hirons Snail Wars atm - v. amusing.

Thanks bo (for serum recommendation, a few pages back now) - will try that one.

Enid, complete stab in the dark but I'm guessing something to do with the Shea since you don't tolerate it that well? Az is technically an AHA so allows for better product penetration, but it could also be just too many heavy occlusives (the Shea and the Az silicone base). I really wouldn't know tbh I don't think Az has any particular contraindications and Cicaplast is generally meant to be soothing.

Just been busy, Dulci. Think everyone is subconsciously trying to keep each other busy here to distract us from our imminent national elections which are a giant headache no one really wants to contemplate.

I think nuts (almonds or walnuts are usually my go to) are usually a good emergency snack along with some chocolate (the sugar-free 99 or 100% stuff, it's an acquired taste that you sort of have to grow into but on the upside you only eat the tiniest amount and it soothes the craving). Not really comparable to a Snickers but strangely candy bars all taste vile to me now and nothing of chocolate .

Speaking of off topic, discovered a new site recently www.youngbritishdesigners.com/ and have been eyeing some bags and clothes, and too many other things on there since. Prices seem a bit on the high side for emerging designers but it just may be the exchange rate.

Hollin, do you mean like a dedicated eye makeup remover or more a first oil cleanse?

Hirons Snail Wars might just be the new thread title, we'll need a snail emohi

It's a rather apt description and I'm somewhat bemused people (on both sides) are getting so heated up about snail slime... I haven't even read the CH posts but assume it is much like her first reporting on EGF: 'Cancerous! Dangerous! Made of humans!' and other such nonsense, all retracted years later when Bioeffect invited her for a press trip to Iceland and suddenly it was AHmazing. Though in all fairness Bioeffect EGF is pretty brilliant and one of the most impressive things I've ever used. Anyhow there's plenty of 'weird' stuff in cosmetics (I mean it once was just all whale blubber, lanolin (sheep sebum), and some other animal fats) don't really see the point of singling out the weird snails.

More like a first cleanse really, or something I can use alone at night if I've just had a BB cream on

I think CH is very inconsistent and she should stay far away from posting anything claiming it is facts tbh. She never comes out of it looking good. ;) I'm filling up this thread with blather coz I'll post my routine and experiences in the new one ;)

Not much of that in French Pharmacy, Hollin. There's the Caudalie Cleansing Oil that I know Aurora liked but I think she used it as a second cleanse. Not sure how it would perform with any makeup of substance and it does have fragrance in it (but IIRC not an issue with you?). Think LRP has a mineral oil based cleanser that would do the job (but you have to be ok with MO and not sure how it performs as a cleanser as a whole) and Avene had a well-liked gel cleanser but I think that's been recently discontinued. Is the UB Cleansing Oil part of the 3 for 2 offer, or have you tried and disliked that already? Or just use buckets of snail slime

I have the UB one already
I'll have a root in boots and see what I can track down!

Thank you Stainless I'll be shade 1 then. Does it work well on you? We sound a similar colour.

Bo Hmm, I'm baffled. I won't try it again so not a problem, but I was just curious you know as, like you say, cicaplast is supposed to do the very opposite of that. Don't think it'd be the Shea as it's fine irrration wise, just can clog. Haven't had any congestion from the cicaplast when dabbing it on in small patches and leaving it instead of rubbing it in. I'm a fan. The b5 toner is next on my list.

From what I can see the p50w had an over night affect on the small pink marks on my lower cheek and reduced the hard little lumps I had there. Looks promising. Will wait a few days before trying again and think that'll be it gone so might be buying it soon.

Used a foundation I forgot about today
L'oreal infallible stay fresh in porcelain. Applied with a damp beauty blender, it goes on really well and covers a lot. V pale shade too

I might just squeeze in a question before this thread fills up! I've glanced but it all seems a bit overwhelming for me, am hoping that as my needs are simple those of you with such expert knowledge will be able to help without even batting an eyelid!

So here's the vital stats:

Skin type: normal, I think? I never ever get blemishes, would be more on the dry side but quite sensitive. Some lines and wrinkles around the eyes and signs of jowls appearing

Approx age (range): I'm 42

Primary skin concern: Skin on my eyelids! Very dry and sore

Routine : Not much of a one I remove eye makeup with a damp cotton pad and some baby oil. Then remove makeup with bodyshop chamomile cleansing balm. Then use boots protect & perfect serum and nightcream. In the morning I splash with water then use a budget day cream, whatever is on offer and suitable for dry/sensitive skin

Makeup : I wear makeup most days as I would probably get the sack if I turned up to work without it!! I use Rimmel wake me up foundation.

Occasional treatments: None. Ever.

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: Nothing

Things that are really working well for me now: not sure but I do love that foundation

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant: none

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. budget please, I have no spare cash definitely wouldn't spend more than £30 on anything

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]: OK so this is my main concern. I have had horrible dry eyelids for the last few months. Started on just one eye but now on both. I have Retin A cream that I purchased in spain so thought I'd give that a go. I've been using it all over my face, including the eyelids because I thought that it might get worse (as in drier) for a few days and then improve. Not a lot of it and its the weakest strength (0.05% or something?) But now my eyelids are really bad. They are stinging. Obviously I'm not using that near my eyes anymore but I don't know what to put on them to calm them down and stop the flaky dry skin that was there long before I used the Retin A cream. Any ideas? I find its my eye area that I'm least happy with overall, I feel this is what is aging me more than anything but have no idea really what to put on it.

Thank you all in advance for your help!

macnab NO RETIN-A ON YOUR EYELIDS! Nothing on your eyelids! Had to post that before I run off to lunch. Avoid the eyelids! No idea what you can use to calm the stinging now that you've done it though, hope someone can help. I might have tried Bepanthen salve but no idea if that would have been smart but Josefa Reina uses it for faces and I'm a huge fan.

macnab, I can be very short.

DO WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND PAY A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL TO SEE TO IT!

I don't even know where to begin. This is so beyond irresponsible. You used Retin-A on your eyelids?! If you'd at least bothered to read the patient leaflet of your illegally obtained prescription drug it would have warned you not to use it anywhere near the eyes, never mind the lids. You can consider yourself lucky if you haven't damaged your skin indefinitely. An internet forum is the last place to be asking for any advice on this.

botemp just to clarify I only used the Retin-A twice, it has made the skin worse so I stopped. I didn't purchase it illegally, I bought it in a pharmacy when I was in Spain and it's not illegal there? The lady spoke perfect English and explained how to use it. She said it was fine to use around the eyes - its the lines around my eyes that bother me most so that's what I was asking about. I take on board your comments, obviously won't be using it again.

I’ve read the whole of the first thread and most of this one, just started on thread 2.

Skin type: Combo oily/reactive/mature. T-zone especially nose still gets very oily, clogged pores in t-zone. I get the odd spot but blackheads, open pores and shine are my biggest issues in the t-zone. Cheeks are ‘normal’ skin type, definitely not dry.

Approx age (range): Mid 50s.

Primary skin concern: Uneven skin tone – blotchiness, redness, some age spots.

Routine :

This is the routine I'm getting back into - I used it for quite some time but the last few months I've been doing the absolute minimum including the use of face wipes some nights. I know!

AM : Cleanse with either LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser or Alpha-H Balancing Cleanser. Spray with rosewater hydrosol (not sure it does anything but I like the fresh feeling), eye cream (currently alternating with Balance Me Wonder Eye Cream and a very cheap Boots one- Simply Sensitive Hydrating Eye Cream. For this step in the past I’ve actually preferred to just use my normal moisturiser if it’s not fragranced. However I’m currently using the Aldi Caviar AM moisturiser. It’s nice enough but it’s fragranced and I do prefer products with no or minimal fragrance. When it’s used up I’ll be back to LRP Toleriane Fluide for daytime. Final step is LRP Anthelios Dry Touch SPF from April to September when at home in UK. (Having read a couple of threads it looks as if I should be using it every day even in winter?)

I try to keep my AM routine as simple as possible because all of the products need to work well with my foundation and not exacerbate my t-zone shine.

PM : Remove eye make up with either Boots Essentials eye make up remover (it’s very inexpensive and does a good job) or Lancome Bi Facil if feeling wealthy. Cleanse with Superdrug Hot Cloth Cleanser and some (very) old Eve Lom cloths if wearing heavy make up or sunscreen, then use Alpha-H Balancing Cleanser. Just Alpha-H cleanser if not wearing much on my face. Tone with rosewater hydrosol. I’ve just started to use PC BHA 2% Gel again after a long break. PC AHA on neck. Eye cream and moisturiser is currently Aldi Caviar PM moisturiser. Again will go back to LRP Toleriane when this is used up. Prefer the Riche formulation at night.

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage - Usually medium coverage.

Occasional treatments: None.

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: I’ve had a lot of issues with cleanser over the years. Skin doesn’t tolerate SLS very well. Also problematic have been some balm and oil cleansers. LE C&P wrecked my skin over a decade ago. Others that have caused reaction/irritation – Clinique TTDO Balm, Emma Hardie, Eve Lom. Various Asian oil cleansers that I tried years ago, Shu Uemura, DHC. Actually oils in general appear to be problematic.

My face doesn’t like glycolic acid although I can use it on my neck and décolleté . I’ve tried various PC ones over the years, including the Resist one, Alpha –H Liquid Gold and others. After use my skin is sore and looks horrible the next day. I tried it again two nights ago and my skin still isn’t happy today. Definitely can’t use it on my face. Is it worth saving it to use on KP on arms?
I have my suspicions about HA too. I currently have the Hylamide Sub Q serum which I will test again but haven’t used it for a few months.
Cerave – unfortunately can’t remember the exact product names now but two of their moisturisers caused me to react badly with redness and irritation.

Things that are really working well for me now: Alpha H Balancing Cleanser. I’ve used it for about 5 years now. LRP Toleriane dermo cleanser. Superdrug Hot Cloth cleanser occasionally. Rosewater hydrosol. PC BHA gel. LRP sunscreen.

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant: No

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: £20-50 is probably my limit these days and that would need to be for a truly outstandng product. I spent my 40s buying high end skincare and found that most of it was over fragranced, over hyped or just didn’t contain the right ingredients in the right amount to actually do anything! Prefer basic products without unnecessary added ingredients esp. fragrance.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]: I’d like to find an AHA that doesn’t contain glycolic acid to give it a try and see if my skin likes it. Also ready for retinol although a bit scared of it! Would like to try TO Niacinamide and/or Vitamin C products to help with uneven skin tone including some age spots. I’ve been looking at the Skinceuticals Vit C for years but it’s too expensive.

I’ve had laser treatments on individual red veins in the past, also on the more diffuse redness. It worked well but I now have redness in different areas and laser is out of my reach financially at the moment. I know that a product won’t work miracles. Redness is mostly on nose and chin with a couple of broken capillaries around nose.

Finally, if I could find a cheaper alternative to the PC BHA I’d be happy to try it, or will order the PC Liquid when Gel runs out. (I ordered the gel by accident).

In my stock cupboard I’ve just found two items that I ordered from PC a few months ago and had forgotten about. So these are untried as yet – Resist Intensive Wrinkle Repair Retinol Serum (trial size). CLEAR Anti Redness Exfoliating Solution 2% Salicylic, it’s described as ‘extra strength’ for some reason but I’m already using 2% in the gel form.

Sorry for long post, really appreciate any help.

Just come out of Boots £54 lighter. Oops

macnab FWIW since I learned about the possibility of buying retin-a legally in Spanish pharmacies I've had it on my list of things to buy if I ever get to go to Spain again. Around the eyes doesn't mean on the eyes though, eyelids count as eyes. I can agree with you that those location directives that are tossed about in skincare ("around the eyes" "avoid the eye and lip area") are ambigious and hard to understand when no-one shows you what they mean. And also, if your eye and lip area are the problem areas ...? But it seems like you should have researched more what the product does and looked up the patient leaflet in English, because it does say no applying on eyelids etc. and it's absolutely no good for healing an itchy skin. :(

Hollin tell me everything you bought

I had itchy dry skin next to my eyelids a couple of weeks ago. I used Simple Eye ointment and E45 itchy skin cream to calm it down. Both available over the counter but in your case mac I would ask a gp to take a look in case you have a bit of eczema. Or ask a pharmacist to recommend something soothing. Were your lids like that before the retin cream?

Whatcha buy Hollin??

I'm not at home but I did the 3 for 2 with LRP and Avene, will post names later!

macnab, I know I'm coming down hard on you and probably should have refrained with the all caps but at the end of the day it is a prescription drug you obtained without a prescription abroad and you brought it into the UK. The damage you can sustain using medicine off prescription can be far worse than what you were trying to fix.

Last time I checked Spain is still part of the EU and under EU law Retin-A is prescription only. I don't know (and would love to be enlighted and corrected if wrong as I'm not a legal expert) what loophole they've created in Spain that allows the OTC sales (and if they're legal, or if it's a case that it's sold as something not intended for the facial area) as all Google will provide me with is a list of dodgy sites telling me how to obtain it. While it may not be illegal there to sell it, it may very well not be completely legal either. I do know it isn't legal to buy this in the UK without prescription so am assuming that bringing it into the UK, like any other substance classified as a drug, makes it fall into illegal territory, or at the very least in some very murky grey area (but again, not a legal expert).

Apologies for the lecture but I do feel it's important not to consider Retin-A any old cream you use and just because it's legal somewhere it's safe to use. It's a very specific product that can do great things but it requires guidance and expert advice on how to use it and what to use with it. It's not something well tolerated by most (especially already sensitive skin) and difficult to sustain over long periods of time and only with prolonged use can you hope to achieve the promised anti-ageing results. It's not for the faint-hearted. In the case of Retin-A, it's as much the guidance/adjuvant products as the medication that leads to success. Thankfully you caught on quick, have it seen to and I'd avoid using baby oil on your eyelids for now. It's fragranced and I'm assuming the skin is now irritated and possibly over exfoliated and won't tolerate things it used to as well as before, use gentle non-fragranced products to avoid further irritation until a professional can advise more specifically.

160A4, there aren't many AHAs without glycolic, P50 is one, (starting with W and then probably moving to the V). The Missha Pads I've mentioned previously (not tried yet or seen any reviews yet) are also glycolic free IIRC. The FAB Radiance Pads may also be but I'd have to check the INCI again. SR has the Good Genes serum which is very full on (and don't really recommend on the high irritation factor) as well as being highly priced. TO has two LA serums (can't really call them toners, they might though) but I haven't found them to be effective at all (I used it on the body, no results and I think Dulci used it as well and was thoroughly unimpressed). There are a few mandelic options out there too but BR P50 is where I'd look first personally. I think Merumaya also recently launched something that may be glycolic free but it was fragranced.

Not really a cheaper alternative but more a BHA variant is the CosRx BHA Blackhead Power Liquid. For some it works, for others, it doesn't. Usually, if PC does little for you, it works and vice versa.

Oh and also the NIOD non-acid acid precursor (or whatever confusing name it is) and the SkinCeuticals Retexturing Activator are possible alternatives that whilst not strictly an AHA do operate like one without the irritation.

Thank you for your reply botemp.

I've been looking at the P50 online after reading about it on the previous threads. I wasn't sure if it was glycolic based though so thank you for the recommendation.
Also the only retailer I could find in the UK was Liberty but they don't seem to sell it online and I'm a long way from London. Perhaps I need to arrange a weekend in Paris ?

In the meantime I'll look into the Missha pads - I used a BB cream by Missha a few years ago and liked it - will feedback when I've tried them.

Thanks again! Will stay on the threads and update as I go along.