Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

---

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

Free, was that the guy with the eyebrows? Skinheadish?

GayParee sorry but if you don't know/ can't look up which products exactly you use, I can't really help you. The Clinique turnaround line also has a few products and you didn't specify which one??? You also don't specify where you fit in the ANR.

Sorry I'm stuck with my daughter recovering from an op and can't currently check the exact names, I genuinely didn't think not knowing the exact names would be an issue

Thanks anyway

dulci yes, Julian.

Used the Superdrug serum this evening and no stinging or immediate reaction but I'm not sure if my skin feels drier than it usually does which seems a bit odd

Meant to say feels slightly itchy too

Ah I didn't get his name. He seemed very serious, good on you for getting on name terms with him!

GayParee sorry to hear about your daughter. I too have been in hospital with my kids so I know how stressful and exhausting it can be.

If I or anyone here is going to give you comprehensive, honest advise we need to know what exactly you are using. Some companies have great products along with shitty ones (sadly) so just saying cleanser from company X doesn't give me enough to go by.

It's great you already have a good routine with all the "right" steps. I think though that you could streamline it. At the moment especially in the PM you use a mix of stuff that while not very bad is not very targeted and some of it is needlessly very expensive like the ANR. I don't mean to say you should throw away your products, but once you finish them up you could gradually switch to some TO stuff. You could also switch your N&F/ Pixi to P50 (start with the W version in a travel size).
Also - you should start using a proper SPF50. If you tell me what you like/ price I can give some recs or just read the thread and see what ppl have been getting.

Example of PM routine-
Cleanse
Acid or TO retinol 2% (use each no more than 2-3 times a week)
TO buffet or Matryxil
(You could eventually add an oil here)
night cream/ night pack-mask

I think that if you use the TO serums in the morning and maybe top them with one drop of oil and then moisturize, you won't need to use two moisturizers. If you want to layer serums in the PM you could try the Benton Snail Bee essence on top of the TO.

Two things you should probably stop immediately is using acid toner in the AM and you should drop the Clinique lotion as it's full of mineral oil which might contribute to your spots.

This double be a good place to begin, and from there depending on how your skin reacts you can add/ tailor your regime.

When you know the names of the rest of your stuff we can probably give you further advice about cleansers etc.

Gorgeous horses! To defend mares, the nicest two horses I knew were both mares, and the most thrawn were geldings, so your beautiful mare might be equally beautifully natured. But ahem, I guess we're supposed to be talking about skincare.

Thanks, and sorry for being a grump, I have been in a right old stress.

Cleansers are Vichy Purete Thermal 3 in 1 One step and Caudalie gentle cleansing milk, Superdefense is the dry/combo skin one and Turnaround is the overnight one (again dry/combo). I also have micellar waters that I only use in an emergency/to remove eye make up, some cleanse and polish and a French cold cream cleanser in a pump from the hypermarket. I have given my boots essentials cucumber to the kids at least!

I use the ANR every third night as thought it was best to leave the acids/retinoid on bare skin, I didn't realise you could use them in the middle of the routine as you have suggested.

I think I'll try some Clarins blue lotus oil as I've heard good things about it (or Liz Earle superskin) I have tried rosehip, jojoba, coconut, almond and olive to really bad effects.

I'll look through the threads for SPF, thank you so much. Should the retinol/acid be enough for the dark patches or is there something else I should try?

Thanks again.

Oh my goodness I need to make more time for this thread!!

Quick questions whilst I work my way back...
(Apologies if they've already been covered)

Thoughts on rosehip oil?
Thoughts on salon microdermabrasion?

Sunday Supplement

Morning (ish) all, will catch up with rest of the thread later. GayParee , don't worry you're not coming across a grump. Can you clarify your skin type as you've only mentioned dehydration (which is a condition) and for the moment I'd hold off on buying more product, it sounds as if your routine is a little oversaturated currently, I'll have a proper look later.

DEALS

The DHC UK site has the cleansing oil on offer for new customers, plus some free samples for £10.75 (full size and free shipping) which is a really good price for anyone who has it on their wishlist or wants a backup. Offer here*, valid until Tuesday, 28 February 2017.

£15 off when you spend £60 or more at SpaceNK with the code EXPLORE17. T&C apply. Ends midnight February 13th 2017.

10-20% off at EasyParaPharmacie. Codes as follows:

DRCHANCE10 for 10% off on orders over €79

DRCHANCE15 for 15% off on orders over €150

DRCHANCE20 for 20% off on orders over €200

Valid until February 21st, must include at least one sale item and the discount is for the total order.

Escentual: 25% off RRP on everything with the code ESCENTUAL25 until February 13th 2017.

• denotes I put in the product link, not skimlinks.

TO LISTEN/TO WATCH

The latest Snailcast (AB) on Skincare Gimmicks. Two of my favourites are mentioned among many other things, the Casmara masks we’re always so ahead of the times, aren’t we Aurora? and the BR P50 PIGM 400.

From our favourite lurker: Dr Sam’s and

Not a topic we discuss on here often unless it pertains to certain blushes but I thought it was interesting regardless to see the application of lasers in other areas. , though it seems to be selling it more as an incontinence issue solution, naturally there is an aesthetic/tightening element to it too.

Rosie Huntington Whatever her name is flooded my YT feed, you can watch any random one of those videos for the new product lineup for her Autograph makeup as they’re all the same and tediously dull but I know the products are well liked and the Tinted Moisturiser looks promising. On a side note, I know YT is considered to be a bit low rent but would it have killed them to get someone to check the lighting in situ? Everyone looks downright awful including the otherwise flawless looking RHW, never realised she had hormonal acne issues.

- I’m not so sure about the ‘healthful’ claim (or what that’s supposed even mean, is it like truthiness?) but they do look to make a nice sugar free treat provided you have some sugar free chocolate (or just embrace the tiny bit of sugar that would add to the recipe).

Not 100% beauty, by always like putting this on in the background when multitasking, Sali Hughes & India Knight for SohoRadio though sadly no IK this month.

BBC 2 Horizon: Hair Care Secrets (UK only)

TO READ

Because it's fucking shit in Hull - I’ve mentioned Angry Chef before, the one man tirade against the pseudoscience of the clean eating brigade, and though this article is somewhat food based it is more about the delayed gratification response and poverty-induced stress. It does tie in with skincare (and the rise of fast/instant skincare that does nothing long term) and the advances in democratising it but this would turn into a really long paragraph for it if you all let me. If I have to summarise it, the cosmetic industry profits immensely from the confusion it purposely spreads around skincare and the necessity for products and without the luxury of time and access to better information it’s almost impossible not to buy into the shit. Good skincare, regardless of the price tag, is becoming a luxury because you need the time and stress free head space to look into it (or pay someone else to figure it out for you) and that’s something not everyone can afford or grasp. As a result good skin is a bit of a status symbol (as is the minimal makeup look that goes with it). See also: those curiously named ‘how to look expensive’ threads on here .

In relation to the above Would you take a new £1,300 DNA test that could save your life? but also into the relation of genetics and how to approach your (skin) health and the princely sum they charge for it.

The Spike on Hormones, I sometimes dip in and out of her blog since someone once linked to it on here, it’s pretty much as unaffiliated and unsponsored you can get old school blog/diary that covers a wide array of topics. This time she mentioned seeking out the London Hormone Clinic for addressing her hormonal skin issues. Thought it was interesting there’s such a specialised clinic for it now (I’m assuming it’s a private thing) and it actually makes quite a lot of sense to me to approach various issues from the hormonal path. She’ll report her experiences of it on the blog in the future.

There were some issues with the pH of CosRX BHA, though as I gather it’s been resolved and barely affected the working of it. Cult Beauty is now also selling CosRX the cynic in me is expecting a review from CH on it soon, or at the very least on IG for £22 which is less of a markup than I expected.

Victoria Health Feb Newsletter

Are snail slime products worth shelling out for?

We’re so on trend with our ‘Concealers for the perfect no make-up, make-up look’ no mention of the Sisley, so clearly Eva Weissman knows fuck all

Since we seem to like the whole colour correcting business so much 5 Best Color Correctors According to Reddit no mention of Stila, see above about knowing fuck all

To indulge our inner narcissists a little further The selfie test: personality quiz Spoiler alert:

On average, non-selfie takers rated themselves as only 0.5 points more attractive and likeable (on the 7-point scale) than other people rated them. But selfie takers rated themselves 1.5 points more attractive and likeable than other people rated them. When asked to measure their own attractiveness and likability in a photo taken by the experimenter, both groups were pretty much spot on.

So, selfie enthusiasts overrate their own attractiveness and likability, but only in their selfies.

And if you do happen to be a little too attached to your smartphone and it’s causing beauty issues, Are you suffering with a digital beauty disorder?

On ‘inflammaging’ - Why strengthening your skin barrier is key for looking younger

Beauty Business News - always interesting from BBB to know how things are shifting internally. Also, a bit on some plastic Surgeon suing Mumsnet and forcing them to reveal their ‘identities’ (for as much info as MN has on them I suppose) but also their PM correspondence, the latter I found a bit odd and somewhat concerning my PM correspondence is of absolutely no interest to anyone, thankfully.

Should You Get Preventative Botox? Experts Weigh In, as mentioned previously I’m not a huge fan of the aesthetic and wrinkles only determine ageing so much. This does make for good reading for anyone seriously considering it about what it realistically will and won’t achieve.

Think this is an old article but it popped up again, High Sugar, High Stakes; the truth about your sweet tooth 7 your skin

Review on the NIOD low viscosity cleanser, I think this makes for a viable, albeit expensive, alternative for micellar water and those who don’t tolerate water well in their routine (or only have access to shit water).

How often should I wash my hair?

Should You Be Avoiding Parabens?

As mentioned previously PHA is the new wunderkind in acid world, Fifty Shades of Snail’s review on the Swanicoco PHA 10% Coco Peeling Cream CosRX will be releasing a PHA cream soon too.

gayparee some spf recommendations are Biore UV aqua rich watery essence which is spf 50, very light, non oily and non clogging. I've changed to using this (I'm fairly oily skinned) and it absorbs immediately. I got it from Japan via eBay. It's not waterproof/sweatproof but fine for day to day. LRP anthelios XL is also spf 50 and is waterproof. A few different formulas of that one available and often recommended on here.

storm haven't used rosehip myself but it has been discussed and I think it's quite clogging for some people. I've had microdermabrasion myself, probably half a dozen times, but with my superior knowledge from this thread () I won't have it again. I suppose it's like manual exfoliation+++, akin to sandblasting your face! Presumably you're thinking of trying it?

Ok I really don't get it!!!....just been to a kids party (hot, etc) and now my skin is awful! Feels so tight and itchy and like everything has been sucked out of it! It looks dry/papery (dehydrated) and red!! Why does tgi always happen?? I don't use any harsh/drying/stripping products so why?!

Jo, you posted that your skin felt dry and itchy last night?

Do you read the ingredients lists of products you use? It's really helpful to start tracking ingredients in products that you do and don't get on with, looking for common factors, it can make future purchasing decisions much easier. It'll take a while to start with but will get easier.

Wonderful Sunday summary botemp many links to read there 🤗 Have been attempting to follow these skincare threads but they move so fast!

Wow, daughter now home and stuck in with her two brothers all week so thanks for the reading material, even though it slightly feels it's in a different language.

JDSTER thanks for the SPF recs, I'll try out LRP next time am in Boots.

AuroraPolaris thanks so much. I've tried oils in the past but my skin really doesn't like then, it needs moisture. I genuinely don't know what skin type I have, anything like face wagshes makes my skin horribly tight, as does the shower, yet I do get the odd spot and face is a bit shiny by the end of the day. I also have horrifically dry flaky patches on both cheeks that were the bane of my life until I found acids, they then moisture are the only thing that works. I have found many creams for dry skins nit great as they sit on top of my skin in an oily layer yet it still feels dry. I guess maybe that makes me combination?

I've got a Clarins night cream sample on its way to me, but any recs for a good night cream would be gratefully received. I'll order from TO when I'm nearing the end of current products.

Thank you so much

PS read the enture thread then went into eBay to try and get sample of the concealer, alas and alack only full sized ones left

Has anyone used both "the concealer" and the Collection one that's often recommended on MN? I've been using the collection one for a couple of years and I love it. I can't imagine how it could get any better to be honest so would be really interested to hear what I'm missing!

AMR talking about the White Company skincare.

White Company

gayparee I only just today read this blog post about layering moisturising toners in seven steps to fight dryness! www.fanserviced-b.com/i-tried-the-7-skin-method-the-lipstick-league/ Maybe you need to do this? For science. Report back.

yongnian yoohoo - I tried a non oaked red wine the other night and guess what no face reaction at all. I love you, thank you

I don't quite have the full kit recommended to me yet for my skin but I'm only missing the serum - I did get some samples of it though and really like it so that's next

Going well so far. less itchy and redness is more of a light pink :)

I have some samples of the BHA stuff too but not used that yet... will give it a few weeks

GayParee glad to read your daughter is home. Hope she is not in too much pain and you are both getting some sleep.

(this will be a long post - possisbly to highlight some general issues which apply to more people).

Yes, what you are describing sounds like dry/ combination skin, and it’s indeed possible the flakiness you described is/ was dehydration. Obvs only you can eventually tell what your skin is really like. For example, I always say my skin is (kind of) normal, but if I didn't treat it religiously it wold be dry, and it certainly used to be dehydrated before I started using acids and layering stuff. In the summer it tends to be (slightly) combination around the nostrils. So, things can even change from season to season.

I also have a very sensitive neck, much more sensitive than my face. Over time I have simply learned what I can take down my neck and what not, especially in winter (like right now, grrrr). I don't have spots on my neck, but it can get quite red in winter.
Also - it's worth laying off SLS and silicones in all your hair products to see if this is the cause. These products can often cause problems in the neck area (as well as backne).

The three isseus you mention at a glance (just to simplify things)-

-Spots (assuming we are not discussing real acne and if this is indeed cause by skin care) - paring down, trailing products one at a time, ditching silicones and parabens (use on body) for the time being (until you can discover if indeed they are to blame).
[Second phase - investigating your diet to exlude any intolerances. E.g. when I was young I used to get spots on my chest both from olives and from almonds (2-3 olives were enough). Thank god I don’t have this anymore, as I adore both!]

-Dullness - this will be improved once you use more tarageted hydration (and can eventually layer it) and Vit C. I have found P50 also helps combat this.

-Pigmentation (I assume this is what you mean by discolouration, though I don’t understand if this is caused by past acne or sun) - best combination to addres ths is SPF50 year round (!!!), acid toners, Vit C and retinol. You are already using some of this stuff which is great. You could simply be using slightly better produtcs. In this instance you have to be realistic, as the pigmentation will probably not dissapear with OTC stuff, though I certainly think it’s possible (over time) to fade the marks/ spots.

PLEASE PLEASE don't feel overwhelmed by all these suggestions (Like I said, I’m writing at length as I think more ppl have these questions) and that you have to throw everythig away etc etc!!! This is simply stuff some of us have discovered which workes for us, and for many this was a process that took a along time (cause we didn't have threads like this . So take things one at a time, when you have time....

So… plan of action -

First step - please stop putting your face under the shower! I'm sure bo has said that many many times here. I never ever do that, even if I'm washing my hair! Do your routine at the sink straight after showering and don't wait with the rest of the stuff after cleansing (and read bo's general instructions for cleansing).

Second step - (real) SPF50 - Biore or LRP Anthelios or Bioderma

Third step (like I wrote previously) -
-Put aside the clinique lotion (the SD is fine for now).
-Use acids only 3x week and only in the PM
-This is a maybe - the Vichy cleanser has both silicone and prabens. I get spots from silicones in skincare, so maybe it's worth laying off that for a couple off weeks? You can probably continue with the Causelie cleanser (and eventually switch to the LRP Dermo Cleanser mentioned upthread).

Once your daughter is better and you finish some of the stuff you are using now you can get some of the new stuff I suggested in my previous post (with a few weeks gap!) plus eventually Vit C (maybe the TO one which has been discussed here to death seeing some ppl have had problems with the texture).

It's a long process, but eventually only you can determine what is good for you, and that is why paring down and simplifying your routine would be best now. That way you can determine what works and what not, and build up from there.
I, for example, have a long routine, but I’ve been been building it up for a few years, and I know what does and doesn’t work for me (mostly) and a extremely careful when introducing new stuff (and indeed try to get samples form eBay).

Layering hydrating products has been discussed here at length. Myself and a few others have had great success with that, but you have to attempt it gradually, trailing one product at a time (too weeks gap minimum between introducing new stuff).
You say some of the moisturizers for dry skin you have tried sat on your skin. This can very well be, because some of that stuff (even very expensive products) have MO or are simply filled with (crap and cheap) filler ingredients and not with things that truly moisturize and nourish. So they might feel “thick” and “moisturising” on your fingers, but they are not nesessarly great for your face (conclusion - use as hand cream if your still own some).
Sorry but the Dermalogica moisturiser also has silicones... It's not something I would thus RP though some ppl are obviously fine with them.

If oils don't work for you, then don't get them. But I'm curious to know which oils you have tried. Some stuff is just full of crap (and silicones). So please don't rush and buy the Blue Orchid oil. as it happens I also think the Lotus Oil (yes, I did it again ) is better than the Orchid one, even for dry skin, but that is my personal experience (actually based on the advice of a Clarins beautician years ago).

And the best best advice - read all previous threads, see what other people’s concearns are, take notes, ask us targeted questions before you buy/ try anything new!

Pheewww, I think that’s about all for now, but follow up questions are of course welcome!

AuroraPolaris thank you so much, that's so helpful. I hear you re the Clinique DDML, Ill pass it on to DH, makes me feel less guilty for getting through so many things.

Re oils I've tried Liz Earle super skin, decleor aromessence and just plain rosehip, almond and jojoba that I've bought online. Plus bio oil (before I knew better!).

I'll now go through previous threads, for some more info, this stuff is fascinating but so enabling!

Finally re discolouration it is definitely sun damage it almost looks like a burn on my cheeks.

I ammo so grateful for your help.

Thank you

Elixiam I've got both the Collection and Sisley concealers and they are completely different. The Collection one is very thick and has almost a plastic/waterproof consistency - it's perfect for concealing blemishes (or age spots!) but for me, it's unsuitable for the undereye area because it's too thick and sits in my, ahem, creases. The Sisley one is used by many here as a colour corrector (peach colour disguising blue undereyes). It's a light serum-like texture, blends easily, and the most important thing for me: doesn't crease. Totally different products, great for different things :)

dulci yeah I have done the ingredient comparison thing but the problem is mt skin reactions are so random and there are genuinely no patterns except for fragrance which I know my skin doesn't like and anything that has silicone as first ingredient-dimethicone not as bad for me though. Also I'm not sure if it's a coincidence but a couple of products I've tried with rose geranium has irritated me. Mineral oil breaks me out around my jaw line and I've tried a few products containing niacinamide (Olay and lrp toleriane night cream) and they have made my skin red itchy and irritated. Anything that leaves a film or residue on my skin is also very irritating for me as are potent essential oils (kiehls midnight recovery, Liz Earle superskin, sanctuary) I've also tried pure rosehip, argan oil, jojoba and almond oil and my skin didn't respond well, I just don't seem to get on with oils much to my disappointment!
The latest product I've introduced is the Superdrug hydrating serum but am very unsure about this too as my skin felt drier and itchy that evening.

I'm still debating ordering the niod naap as this does sound ideal for me but bo hasn't given me "permission" yet unless someone else can be the brave one to tell me do it. If I get it I will apply maybe 3 evenings a week after the hylamide subs and before my moisturiser. Think I'm gonna have to stop using the Superdrug serum now tho (even though I like idea of layering hydration) my subq will have to do unless there's anything else?!