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Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

999 replies

botemp · 29/01/2017 08:36

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault. Grin

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then Wink. Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:


Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
GayParee · 13/02/2017 12:09

And banivani happy to be guinea pig but only have a Rodial and Liz Earle toners , am going to need essences aren't I???

botemp · 13/02/2017 15:31

I'm well aware Pokemon are passé, Aurora, I haven't accidentally run over anyone viewing the world through their phone screen in quite a while. But Dany Diop is a complete digibeet (I don't know the English equivalent, Google suggested digital moron which seems a bit harsh Shock) so the threat still feels valid, if passé Grin. Dulci, just send out the skincare nerd bat signal if you're in trouble and we'll come running.

Mint/Jo, I'd do Superdrug in the AM initially and SubQ in the PM and see how you get on for a week or two. I wouldn't even be looking at the NIOD NAAP until at least 6 weeks of consecutive use of the Superdrug Serum.

Ooh, beautiful horses... just out of curiosity but mostly to indulge my inner ten-year-old who threw a huge fit when she didn't receive a horse for her birthday and was massively ungrateful for the very nice and expensive gift she got instead what does a horse cost? In my mind, they're all snazzy sports car money.

Elixiam, fragrance is the most common irritant, UV filters are another common one, then it becomes more diverse. In the main, Mineral Oil (for some but also the use of mineral oil in a formulation with another irritant will amplify the reaction as it seals it in so it's often a common denominator), Silicones (although it's denied by many but it really is no coincidence that for many the common denominator in a selection of irritating products, it's also very much dependent on the formulation and grade of silicones used), essential and fragrant plant oils. After that it becomes very specific, thing fatty acids, derivatives, solid (at room temperature) fats, coconut oil, plant extracts, etc.

Good to know there are good experiences at the Liberty counter too, Free, I do think striding in with a bit of confidence helps indeed. I know a lot of counters are very dismissive of potential customers (which is often interpreted as snootiness) and labelled as time wasters when it's more likely people are nervous or intimidated.

Has anyone had a sniff of the White Company stuff yet and is there an interesting discount code floating about? I'm quite interested in the cleanser and moisturiser. Actually, I'd like to get my hands on the whole line but feels a bit more than I need currently but the cleanser seems like a good place to start, not enjoying the Andalou one I ordered from Iherb that much, and in two weeks of use it's already a 1/3 down Shock.

Elixiam, I only ever sampled the Collection and it's very different. The Collection felt heavy and high coverage and has no colour correcting magic. I found it deeply unpleasant to wear and scared the hell out of me when I smiled, I don't have any fine lines around the eyes but with that concealer, I definitely saw my future and it just made me look worse than without concealer. The Sisley is strangely quite high coverage but in a very light formula that even when you build it up doesn't feel heavy. It has an illuminating effect to the face by knocking out all the colour differentiation rather than being an illuminating product that reflects light, iyswim.

I tried the 7 skin method a few weeks back after I recovered from a brief bout of illness and the indoor central heating lifestyle + malaise had taken its toll. It did work well but I did need to spray some thermal water in between with the latter layers to get it to absorb well (used a Japanese HA lotion) and it did restore everything well quite nicely but it is temporary so you do really need a routine that already incorporates hydration well and you just need to get it back up to level. I definitely wouldn't be buying a special product for it. Think I described it in more detail on here but can't remember if it was on this thread or the one before it.

lubey, not having the entire kit straight away is actually a good way to go about it, slow and low is definitely the way to go with skincare. Star

OP posts:
botemp · 13/02/2017 15:39

@GayParee , no offence meant but you sound to be a bit of a product hoarder. We’ve all been in that place, more product than problems and none of them seem to really be solving the actual problem so the natural inclination is an endless search for more product and somewhere along the way you’ve lost track of what is actually doing something and the whole vicious cycle starts all over again.

Your skin actually sounds a like mine did when I first encountered major issues with it but mine had a hormonal undercurrent to it, so if anything else (beyond the stress of having a DC in hospital and all that entails) seems off health wise, I think it’s always sensible to have bloodwork done.

Aurora has already helped you on the way and I agree the high MO and other potentially irritating ingredients in the products that should really be ditched since you’re currently in a problematic phase where little seems to be helping.

I’m having a hard time determining your skin type too, especially since dehydrated skin can sometimes present as combination skin but you also definitely sound dry but don’t tolerate the traditional dry skin remedies well. I think we can sort of suspect that we’re dealing with a compromised skin barrier (the cause of the dehydration) what the cause of that is may be a bit of a mystery (though it might be overexfoliation as a result of a high glycolic routine) and you probably are ‘normal’ that veers towards combo and dry according to weather. I sort of have to assume the hormonal spots are unrelated to that and part of a hormonal cycle where the compromised skin barrier exacerbates it and slows down the natural healing process.

I think we can safely say you’re massively dehydrated and although the Superdrug Serum is decent it’s not the ultimate in hydration (it is high in ceramides which help with barrier restoration so I would keep it in the routine for those purposes, just not rely on it for hydration). I would be inclined to use either the EL ANR instead or in conjunction of that in the AM. Despite its name it is a hydrating serum at the end of the day so there’s no reason it has to be used in the PM. Unless the EL does something amazingly different for you in comparison to other tried HA serums/toners replace with something from Deciem or Japan once finished.

I’m not a massive fan of Pixi or the Nip + Fab pads due to some common irritants in both, but mostly because they seem to make compromised skin worse progressively. I’ve also just noticed the Olay serum is glycolic based, I think you’re overdoing it in the glycolic department. If despite using these you’re still dealing with flaking and dryness they’re just not working for you as they’re designed to address exactly these issues. With the cystic outbreaks in mind and your more recent comment about it appearing like you have sunburn on your cheeks (pigmentation, just wondering if it’s red or the more traditional light tan/brownish colour, if red- we have to question the possibility of rosacea too) I think you’d see a bit more benefit from a BHA, Niacinamide, and Vitamin C. BHA and Niacinamide will also help with inflammation and soothing sensitivity which will aid in barrier repair. By addressing the barrier repair you’ll also be addressing the dehydration issue. It’s more sensible to then look into AHA at a later stage and getting a well formulated less irritating version like P50 that is more about addressing skin balance rather than hardcore exfoliation.

Aurora and I tend to agree on a lot so this will most likely be a repeat but for phase 1 consider it a bit like a diet. Paring things back to the essential while you slowly build up to (thin) layers of product to help regain a bit of skin health with each progression and avoiding setbacks by taking it slow.

Phase 1:

AM

Caudalie Cleansing Milk ← Ideally I’d see you use the LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser instead (and suggest you buy once this is finished) since it’s less likely to irritate but I don’t want to mess around with too many product changes all at once and always feel it’s sensible to use up what you can. Rejected face cleansers make for great handwashes though

Serum - Superdrug Serum and/or EL ANR

Moisturiser - LRP Toleriane Fluide (if it’s still available otherwise ask for alternatives here)

SPF - FT Shiseido SENKA Mineral Water UV Essence SPF50+ PA++++ ← The Biore may be too alcoholic for you which isn’t ideal with dehydrated skin, the LRP is an alternative but I think texturally this would be preferential for you. Do note this isn’t sweat and sebum resistant so good for this time of year but not so much in high spring/summer.

PM

BS CB + Cleansing Milk

Paula’s Choice BHA 2% Perfecting Liquid ← Use 2-3x a week and start building up use 1-2x a week and use in oily prone areas only (U- and or T-zones) and possibly the cheek area if that is indeed inflamed. Also get the travel size, you don’t need a lot and sometimes a different version from their line up works better.

Redermic R on nights you’re not using BHA, 2-3x a week, follow with a moisturiser though- the stand alone use advice for Retinoids only pertains to the prescription variety. EL ANR on the remaining nights and if dehydration is massive on top of the Redermic on those nights too (so basically use every night in that case).

Moisturiser - Face Theory Relaxing Night Cream M10 (unscented version) or if it feels enough the Moisturiser from the AM (possibly with a drop or two of facial oil mixed in).

Phase 2:

Introduce TO Niacinamide 10% in the PM

Introduce TO Buffet in place of EL ANR in AM/PM

Possibly look into an overnight sleeping pack for added hydration to layer before or after moisturiser. The Naruko Magnolia Gelly would be a nice one for you to look at.

Phase 3:

Introduce TO Vit C 23% in the AM (after cleansing before HA serum)

Explore options for AHA like P50(W initially)

*Didn't link a thing, so if anything is linked, it's a skimlink.

OP posts:
hollinhurst84 · 13/02/2017 16:12

botemp - far, far too much. My dad once advised anyone who was thinking of buying a horse to try standing in the garden and burning £50 notes Blush
Not so much the initial cost (anything from £500 to the sky is the limit but maybe average £5000) but the upkeep

Elixiam · 13/02/2017 17:42

Thanks tsmummy and bo good to know! I can't stretch to that price anyway but with my yellow ish skin I doubt peach would be much good for me anyway.. I hope I'm not scaring people with the Collection one! I find it fades into my skin really well.. it's exactly my skin tone and a couple of dabs round the eyes is all I use most days. I keep it in the car with mascara and lip balm and apply at traffic lights on the school run!

Thanks for the irritant low down, is there such a thing as a pocket size ingredient dictionary?! Can you write one please?!

JDSTER · 13/02/2017 17:52

Bo I'm going to have a look at the white company/deciem skincare on Wed when I'm in town. I've got a 20% off plus free delivery code (uk only sorry) AP581.

GayParee · 13/02/2017 18:40

Wow Botemp thank you stop much, my very own prescription Grin

I am very much a hoarder, although as most of these are sample sizes from eBay I've not too much to use up.

I definitely did have rosacea but since I've stopped drinking alcohol it's pretty much gone, this is more like melasma but with red underneath, but think that's from my skin just being grumpy.

I'll get looking for what I can now, I know my skin does like LRP especially the cicaplast baume b5, I'll do it as an overnigh mask when things are bad.

Thanks again

yongnian · 13/02/2017 19:56

lubeybooby - yay!!!! So pleased for you Grin
bo exactly as hollin says - anywhere from next to nothing up to sky's the limit depend on what it is/can do/has done/you want it to do. One of mine cost me....£1. (Breeder's reject, totally wild problem child) but has cost considerably many more £££££s since. And I keep mine is a relatively low-cost manner compared to many.
The other saying I like about horses is 'How do you make a small fortune out of horses? Start off with a large one, then buy a horse.'
Sigh, and I'm still contemplating that lovely mare..must be mad. Well, my inner 10 year old (who incidentally never got a pony either bo) is crying out to be indulged....

botemp · 13/02/2017 20:47

Well, yes, I was aware of the maintenance costs, ten year old me obviously wasn't, nor was ten year old me clever enough to figure out that buying a horse whilst living abroad would never work out she's still pissed though, is this another Princess and the Pea symptom, NOT getting a horse as a child when there clearly was some unspoken agreement you'd receive one? I'm SURE my horse would have liked looking at French Pharmacy shelves too. Anyhow, I figured horses started at minimum 10K for anything 'functional' and it would be a bit of a dud at that, but £1 you say... I actually did look into getting back into horse riding a few years but was rather shocked how much they charged for just trotting around indoors in a circle in a class ten year old me was very spoilt with private tutelage and wide open expanses of nature.

Elixiam, I thought that too about the peach being an off colour on yellow/neutral undertones but that's actually the thing that makes it work. I'm sure there are other peachy concealers that would do the trick in a similar way.

Hoarding is dangerous GayParee, reliable skincare does really count on a certain amount of consistency. If I had to do a lowdown of the most common skincare 'sins' it would be:

  1. Too much product - either/or too many products in one routine that do similar or the same things and/or inconsistent use of too many different products in rotation (the latter really is a side effect of the bloggers who have sort of normalised -not intentionally- a very idiosyncratic routine).
  1. Overcleansing - double cleansing is plenty and for some completely unnecessary but many are often triple (makeup cleanser) or quadruple (toner) cleansing without realising it.
  1. Overexfoliating - too many acids (or acid procedures like peels, etc) and/or manual exfoliation (with brushes, scrubs, dermabrasion, etc.). 2-3x a week really is the general guideline for acids (proper oily could do it slightly more and very sensitive less) and manual exfoliation really should be limited (preferably to none at all) to once a fortnight.
  1. Using too little or too much product - either out of frugality or overenthusiasm- neither is preferable. Don't buy into products you can't afford to use in the right amount on the regular and don't fall into the trap of thinking, 'hey, this is working well let's see what twice as much of it will do.' Patience is a virtue after all.
  1. Lack of broad spectrum sunscreen - emphasis on the broad spectrum aspect of it. SPF merely measures the protection against UVB rays which is what protects us from burning but this really only addresses the outer thinner superficial layers of the skin. UVA (which is the same year round) penetrates deeper into the dermis and has the greatest impact on photoaging. Sunscreen protection in makeup -whilst also being inadequate in amount to deliver the promised protection- rarely acknowledges the UVA protection (SPF only pertains to UVB) if it has any at all.

If you like LRP Cicaplast B5 you'll most likely respond well to other B vitamins (like Niacinamide). I know I looked up an interesting toner for Enid with a high concentration of it, will have to look up what it was again. As far as I'm aware, Rosacea is a chronic condition which flares up intermittently so you're never truly rid of it and I would highly encourage you in rereading the past threads to make notes on all the valuable advice dispensed about it from yongnian et. al. Even when it's not in full flare it's important to still treat your skin as gently as possible, glycolic is definitely not the best fit for Rosacea (BHA and Lactic being more natural partners and the BHA is actually very good as it's anti-inflammatory, it may be worth trying the Clear Regular Strength 2% BHA Exfoliant from PC instead with the rosacea in mind, I don't know if they do individual samples as well as the travel size, that would make it easier to trial both).

Are the White Company sheets still considered to be not as good as they were

OP posts:
yongnian · 13/02/2017 21:02

Can I just stress that my £1 horse was in the absolute last chance saloon and was, in reality given to me (many times! With the breeder saying pleeese take him away....) so the £1 was a traditional token,,, lest anyone thinks cheap horses are a good idea....they're usually trouble and this one definitely was (still is a bit, but has come a long long way) but I knew what I was taking on in advance. (Ha! Sort of) It doesn't always follow that if you pay more, you'll get more (sometimes just more trouble!).
incidentally these days there's all sorts of skincare and hair care products for horses too which is a whole other thread
Just wanted to put that out in case I was inadvertently being irresponsible!!

AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 21:26

GayParee - I'm a bit confused now Hmm
You first wrote you have sun damage on your cheeks but now you say it's melasma. These are two very different things, the latter being hormonal (maybe following pregnancy? Have that myself, though it's luckily very minimal and I'm sure the derm and I are I'm the only ones who see it) and much harder to treat, as it sits deeper in the skin.
In any case, the (presumably) brown spots with "red underneath" bit is a bit beyond my knowledge. Maybe it's worthwhile getting this diagnosed (after you DD recovers!!) so you know how to treat it?

I also tried to get back into horseback riding a few years ago... sigh...
DH's uncle's family is also horse crazy. Both him and his father are/were horse vets and DH's cousin competed for years and is now a very serious trainer. They breathe horse in that house! Sadly they live very far away... sigh again...

AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 21:28

Yong don't worry- I did understand that the 1£ horse was a bit like a failing 1£ company Grin... not to disparage the lovely horse, obviously!

botemp · 13/02/2017 21:31

It sounds about as sensible as purchasing a condemned building for a £1 that you're required to restore and rehabilitate. A labour of love but not to be attempted by the faint of heart or the uninitiated.

Obvs, when I was offering skin pics it referred to products (from the Japan haul), but since it was for you, yongnian, I only felt it right to include some tissues Grin they're unused, honest and tried to be as poncey Instagram about it as possible and failed miserably, shelves it is.

I should disclaim/warn/whatever that one of the most annoying things about the AB Reddit is the constant flood of haul pics, which raises ridiculous expectations on how much to spend, buy, etc. and seems to turn into this competitive outspending thing. Don't think we're inclined to have that issue here but just putting it out there.

Really happy with the cream so far, skin very soft and hydrated, have had to forego the HA toner/lotion otherwise it can be a bit too much HA. Have been lazy on the body bit so haven't gotten a full opinion on it yet. I liked the mask but for the money, it comes in higher than the Naruko Magnolia masks and I like those better for brightening, nothing wrong with these though.

Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!
OP posts:
AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 21:33

I see a tiara there bo!

mintleaves · 13/02/2017 21:34

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone might be able to suggest a luxury/special treat-type treatment for my dryish, (mild) rosacea-prone skin. Following the advice of this thread I have stripped my routine back and got the basics right, which has really improved things (thanks again), so I'm not planning any changes to the daily routine for the moment. But I'm longing for some kind of 'special' treatment - maybe a mask or nice oil etc - that I could use occasionally for a bit of pampering on a cold Sunday evening. I've used the Avene soothing moisture mask in the past which I quite liked but wondering if there's anything superior.

I know there's been lots of discussion of masks and oils etc in the threads so far, so apologies if this has been already covered; I've been trying to look through them and make notes.

Thanks very much

mintleaves · 13/02/2017 21:37

(P.S. I have just looked up that Avene mask and noted it is full of mineral oil Shock)

botemp · 13/02/2017 21:47

It's actually upside down, Aurora, it's a diamond necklace. This in Japan = Premium, I guess Confused, a tiara would make more sense since they're called Queen's Premium Mask.

mintleaves, are you on the LRP Toleriane/Dermo diet basically? It can be a bit unloving and functional admittedly, I'm thinking maybe something with rose oil will be nice for you? Don't know your definition of Luxury but at the top end I do really enjoy the MV Organic Rose Plus Booster (which is an oil you can layer on top or in moisturiser or use on its own) but it's very pricey. Great for hormonal/sensitive skin. Otherwise, Neal's Yard do a rose oil that's on a more affordable level. No added artificial fragrance in either, the MV one smells very nice of roses though, never tried the NY myself but it is generally well liked.

The Aurelia oil is also quite nice and I'm thinking the one from the White Company (Night Oil or something similarly named) may also be nice smell wise with a lighter texture but it is dependant on how well you tolerate essential and fragrant plant oils.

OP posts:
AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 21:53

Haha princesses see tiaras everywhere and in everything Grin

Forgot to say Deciem have a nice Valentines Day offer on their site.

mintleaves · 13/02/2017 22:04

Thanks Bo - yes exactly. It's mostly to keep me on the straight and narrow of this skincare 'diet' that I want the luxury thing - much like having a treat of really good quality chocolate once a week stops me binging on Dairy Milk for the rest of it.. This way I'm less likely to get overenthused and attempt to sneak unnecessary additional things into my day to day routine, or that's how I'm justifying it, anyway! Will look into those recommendations - many thanks.

botemp · 13/02/2017 22:04

Ooh, what's the offer? I need to reorder the Vit C, but have been struggling to get the basket to free shipping. Was curious about the Marula oil but it seems to be perpetually out of stock. I was wondering if it would make sense to be using that Inhibitif product after I'm done with the Lumea initial cycle (and use that after the maintenance cycles) but feels a bit premature to be buying now. Would be interested in something NIOD if the prices are enticing.

We need a tiara emohi (and possibly a magic wand) to denote our special status here on MN, it could be our code for our own links, and the skincare nerd bat signal, obvs.

OP posts:
EnidButton · 13/02/2017 22:15

👑💎✨

(White company sheets are not as good as they once were and the last lot I order were all marked and had to go back and then they call you to discuss it. 🙄 That said I need more sheets so going to try them again. I order WC stuff from Selfridges now but don't think you can use their 20% off codes there.)

EnidButton · 13/02/2017 22:17

*ordered

(Crown, diamond and sparkles courtesy from Apple. Come on MN, keep up!)

EnidButton · 13/02/2017 22:17

Courtesy of...

I give up. This is why I haven't posted here for a couple of days. Brain isn't cooperating with my fingers.

AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 22:18

It's a free monkey (not a real one) that comes with a %% discount code or something. I ordered two days ago Angry but in any case it's only US/CAN/UK bo AngryAngryAngry

AuroraPolaris · 13/02/2017 22:20

Now why didn't I think of that before Enid
💅🏻💄💋