What makes a person frumpy?

[Ladyfoxglove]

I'm feeling decidedly frumpy at the moment. Whilst trying on some old clothes the other day, I caught sight of myself from the back in a full length mirror and I look just like my mother did twenty years ago horrors!

The trouble is, although I'm looking at all the nice new clothes around about now I can't decide what to get. I get my hair cut and highlighted regularly (shoulder length, straight) and I'm 5' 7" and reasonably slim, instead of the effect I'm after (sophisticated, slightly edgy but natural), I'm more average 46 year old frumpy, boring woman from the Midlands. I can't pinpoint where I'm going wrong.

I look similar to Kate Winslet but I'd rather look like kristen taekman (sorry for Real Housewives reference but that's the look I like).

Any suggestions?

I don't know anyone (female) in their 60s or 70s who works

OP I find that pretty unbelievable but then I don't live in the Midlands.
I'm 60 in a few months and currently work on 3 p/t careers- have changed careers in my 50s and hung onto some of the former ones very part time- and fully intend to continue working.

A good friend of mine is 77 and works as a counsellor and always looks fab- very up to date.

LOL at "you have to wear heels"

That cannot come from someone who, like many more people I am sure, lives in the country, and has to walk through a field (mud!) to get to the nearest bus stop/train station.

I am now imagining doing my next dog walk in high heels....yeah, that would be a mega fashion victim fail IMO

OP, about work, my mum is 76 and works 3 days a week as an in-house languages tutor.

She enjoys it, and every year they beg her to come back.

She's not frumpy by the way either.

There is a future out there

I also own quite a few cardigans (nice ones! cashmere!) so I am clearly doomed, along with my flat shoes and weather appropriate outerwear.

I've just moved to Devon but up until last week I lived in London. I got the tube from Finsbury Park to Hyde Park corner everyday for work, I did a lot of walking as I also had to drop my DDs off at two different preps and the office where I worked was in Mayfair, it was a 15-20minute walk from Hyde Park corner. For work on rainy days I always wore heels- either knee high boots or court shoes with thick tights and a mac. I carried an umbrella in my bag and used that on the walk to and from the stations. I walked DD1 to her prep as it was very close to where we lived and got the bus to DD2's prep-prep. Having a child on public transport is very difficult but it can be done. I wore heels in all weathers, this summer I mainly wore nude or black courts from or very high strappy sandals. At 5'10 I don't need heels but they are the finishing touch to an outfit IMO. My usual work clothes were cigarette pants with a silk blouse (neither with strappy heels, the ankle strap isn't flattering with cigarette pants), a pencil skirt and sheer-ish blouse (I promise it didn't look tacky) or a dress. I wore a lot of wrap style cami tops too. During the winter I would wear a cashmere jumper with a shorter skirt so as not to look frumpy, with high heeled court shoes.

I look after my own children as I'm a single parent so would get up at 5:30am with DD2. She talks to me in the shower and I'd do my make-up as she eats breakfast. Decide on an outfit the night before.

Sorry it that's a super long post!

ladyfoxglove Thank you

Back on the topic of work- given that the pension age for women my age is now 66, the only non-working women can be those who have a partner who is working or has retired with a pension- or who have independent financial means.

Many women cannot afford to stop work at 59 or 60- unless they somehow manage to claim benefits.

"Having a child on public transport is very difficult but it can be done. "

But enough of your birth choices, what about frumpiness....

Everything has to be put into context, doesn't it.

Like other people say, trudging through the rain with a pushchair to drop DC off at nursery, then walk to the station, then get a train, then walk to work (with the ever present London possibility of tube lines being broken)... sod being fashionable, I'm wearing an anorak and walking boots!

Lazy day with DC when I'm only going as far as the shop... sod being fashionable, I'm wearing comfortable jeans, trainers (gasp - Converse!) and a hoodie and nary a sight of make up.

At the office or going out? Then that warrants nice clothes and making an effort.

The people I know who jump to mind when someone says frumpy - and thinking of peers, of other 30-somethings - don't have clothes or a look which differentiates between normal days at home and going out somewhere nice.

Now ideally most of your clothes, whether going out or lazing at home, are still a cut which flatters you and you look relatively good in.

But - and I'm prepared to get flamed here - when I see some women who seem to be putting fashion above practicality, I don't think enormously positive things about them. I watch women walking fifteen minutes to our train station in brogues and a thinnish, fashionable coat on a sleety winters day and think, you know what, I bet you'd be a lot warmer and more comfortable if you just worse a ski jacket and decent boots today of all days.

The heels thing is nonsense.
I used to wear heels for work in my 20s, which included a City commute - escalators and a 1/4 mile walk pas the Bank of England.

Now, I find heels im

Nowadays it is very common to see women commuting in trainers -with a sharp suit or city office wear- and their heels are at work ready and waiting.

Up to date footwear- chelsea boots, riding boots, heeled boots and Coverse style shoes are fine when anyone is doing a lot of walking.

"Having a child on public transport is very difficult but it can be done. "

Though also, well, of course it can be done, what do you think most people without cars/with car-inconvenient journeys do? Abandon their children at the bus stop?

TBH, Loafers, your personal style sounds great, but it's just that, a specific style - very groomed, heels, blouses, tailoring, pencil skirts, formal-office-appropriate. I don't think equally well-thought-out deviations from that are "frumpy", even if they're not as glam. Also I would be laughed out of it in my office if I came in dressed like that (I work in software).

I don't know about frumpy but I think loads of women look ridiculous in heels. Because they can't walk in them.

And don't get me started on that clip-clopping noise they make.

A perfect blow dry is frumpy. Ponytails should generally be avoided unless hair is thick and styled- flat lifeless hair scraped into a ponytail. IMO a statement outfit is needed with a ponytail. Its better to generally ponytails though. I just don't see rain as an excuse for a raincoat or anorak! I know it sounds ridiculous but there are so many nicer options available.

Well, it's possible to get some nice raincoats (I have a Patagonia stone coloured trench that looks reasonably good). But I definitely wouldn't wear anything that wasn't actually properly waterproof (taped seams, etc.) if it was raining as I walk for at least an hour a day between dropping DC off and getting to work. Goretex may not be as chic but huge wet patches on your back because rain has come in through bits of your coat is also not a good look. Also, massively uncomfortable.

leedy Yes I take your point that my style is very specific and probably would be OTT for a lot of work environments (I worked in a very sexist office where the women ALL made an effort). I was a PA for a hedgefund manager so had to go to a lot of exclusive venues. I love the clip clop noise of heels .

But surely going for practicality over style is frumpy? I don't think its an age thing. Umbrellas do a pretty good job of protecting coats.

Yup when working on a formal office I always commuted in comfortable flats and kept my ( never very high but always LKB or R and B) heels at work .

Leedy very amusing.

Pinfrocks I appreciate your comments and think it's fantastic that you continue to work (and why not!) I hope to do that too but I'm just saying that I don't know anyone who does because I live in (and have previously lived in) traditional, semi-rural areas throughout the UK where women stay at home to have children and look after the home, never returning to work. You sound as if you come from a professional background, as does your friend. The people I know (friends and relatives) don't come from that background. Perhaps that's the difference.

I love heels so want to wear them regardless of pain but it wouldn't be practical for me to wear trainers to work then change- I can be greeted by a client the moment I walk in the door or be told I have to be at a different venue in 10mins. It looks pretty bad for the 'hedgie' if the PA who introduces the client is wearing trainers. Did anybody else find pregnancy to be an absolute nightmare for frumpiness?

leedy I would also be laughed out do the office if I wear any of that too. I'm in software as well. I have the luxury of wearing comfortable shoes only. I have never been able to manage heels unless I just go from car to office back to car. It hurts even if I walk 20min to lunch and back. I gave up with heels when I have DD. I don't go out to enough nice places to warrant them.

And just turning up in my office with trousers or dress is already formal/well dressed. Two of the mums in my office are forever in cycle gear and fleeces.

I'm a software developer so I think I need to rock a certain look or people would think I'm the receptionist lol. Maybe leedy is the same. Think a female version of the IT crowd. You don't want to look like Jan or they would think you don't know your stuff definitely.

Interesting thread btw. I'm trying to see what everyone thinks is frumpy.

"But surely going for practicality over style is frumpy? "

I don't think so, or perhaps that the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. It's like suggesting that the only way to look good involves suffering some modicum of discomfort, or that anything practical/comfy is necessarily some kind of compromise on "style". As I said, I'm pretty sure I'm not frumpy and I'm generally reasonably walk/weather ready in my clothes.

And perhaps you have not encountered the majesty of Ireland's sideways rain, but an umbrella is feck all use for protecting anything except your head a lot of the time. Fine for a short walk, pain in the arse for my usual day to day out and about. Also uses up a hand.

surely going for practicality over style is frumpy

But why?

I really do get the idea of wanting to look nice and feel nice. I'm not questioning stylishness.

But how on earth is practicality over style just plain frumpy?

I'm not allowed to use an umbrella for part of my walk to work... I might get electrocuted!

I like my clothes comfortable btw. Southern England rain is pathetic and you can do with umbrella only. DH and I came from Auckland and it sounds similar to Ireland. The umbrella is useless when raining in Auckland. It always get blown inside out and the rain come sideways anyway. It's really mild down here.

It's like suggesting that the only way to look good involves suffering some modicum of discomfort, or that anything practical/comfy is necessarily some kind of compromise on "style". As I said, I'm pretty sure I'm not frumpy and I'm generally reasonably walk/weather ready in my clothes.

x-posts, leedy said it better.

There isn't a standard uniform that constitutes 'fashionable' or 'cool', which makes all these sweeping statements a bit ridiculous.

Wearing heels may look great of most people but, as others have said, you look a tit if you can't actually walk in them.

Boyfriend jeans make look wonderful and fashionable on some people, but on others they will just look big and baggy and horrible.

Style is individual. For some people it will be skinnies and chelsea boots, for others it will be heels and pencil skirts, for others it will be '50s dresses.

So you can't really write one item of clothing off as frumpy. The anorak and walking boot wearing commuter probably has a Fenn Wright Manson dress underneath and will put on her LKB heels when she walks into the office.

(Ps - umbrellas are great - but not if you're pushing a pushchair )