What makes a person frumpy?

[Ladyfoxglove]

I'm feeling decidedly frumpy at the moment. Whilst trying on some old clothes the other day, I caught sight of myself from the back in a full length mirror and I look just like my mother did twenty years ago horrors!

The trouble is, although I'm looking at all the nice new clothes around about now I can't decide what to get. I get my hair cut and highlighted regularly (shoulder length, straight) and I'm 5' 7" and reasonably slim, instead of the effect I'm after (sophisticated, slightly edgy but natural), I'm more average 46 year old frumpy, boring woman from the Midlands. I can't pinpoint where I'm going wrong.

I look similar to Kate Winslet but I'd rather look like kristen taekman (sorry for Real Housewives reference but that's the look I like).

Any suggestions?

Amanda my ed just thinks I should exercise more, she doesn't get that your figure changes probably due to hormones etc. This is only in the last couple of years,

the jacket looks ok

what about posture, doesnt that have something to do with it, not having rounded shoulders and what have you?

I agree about posture making a difference. I'm making a real effort not to slouch now that I'm getting on.

Just going back a page, if I get the shade/tone right, I can wear any colour except black or white. But with some colours, I can wear more shades than others, if you follow me. For example, most purples suit me but I've only ever found one shade of yellow that looks ok. That's just my opinion as I've never had my colours done.

In my opinion, bad hair and baggy clothes have that effect. Also wearing too many colours...

I am mentally categorising everyone I see now into frumps and non frumps! I am not doing this in a mean way, I'm doing it to educate myself on what works and what doesn't. I'm seeing many more non frumps. Simplicity seems to be common across the non frumpy.

sometimes I think frumpiness arises from the attitude that wanting to look attractive is frivolous and silly.
That clothing and hair decisions ought to be governed purely by utilitarian concerns.

Sometimes there is an element of being stuck in ones 'heyday', where is appears that a woman (or a man?) has found her look when she was 25 (back in 1978) and stuck with it.
I dont mean that being a slave to fashion is a better alternative just that looking 'modern' can help to avoid a frumpy look

And the feeling of 'thats it, it's over for me now, I'm just going to let myself wither on the vine '

Possibly an artistic bent helps, those who genuinely enjoy experimenting with appearance or using it as a form of self expression are more likely to succeed in looking stylish?

That's a good point, Suzanne. A lot of the time it's not actually necessary to look 'attractive' so, a lot of the time, people just wear whatever's appropriate to the circumstances and readily available.

She who is frumpy on Wednesday may be chic on Friday I'm amongst those who find it a bit shallow/pointless/time-wasting to prioritise appearance over other things. Lots of other women really do have more pressing priorities, whether that be dashing between children and work or mucking out the livestock: for them it's not even a value judgement, it's just pragmatism!

Part of my frumpiness comes from being too self conscious. I'm afraid to wear different things because of people's (perceived) reactions. The trouble is that when I do try to make an effort it IS commented on by at least one person because it is such a change from the norm. So I scuttle back to the safety of frumpdom. I feel that by making a comment the person is thinking I got it wrong. Or it simply draws more attention to me so "ooh, you're wearing a skirt" results in the nearby parents in the playground all swivelling around to check me out

I am about to start a weekly evening class (10 lessons) and I have decided (because of this thread) that I am going to make a real effort. No one there knows me so they don't expect the tshirt/jeans combo. My rules will be: I have to wear a dress or skirt (NO jeans); I must wear lipstick; NO hair in a ponytail and I mustn't repeat an outfit (even if I just add a belt or wear a cardi). I quite like the idea that my fellow classmates will not know me as a frump!

Wow. This thread has grown legs since I last looked!

I've also been on 'frump watch' while out and about and I think the following can lead to a frumpy appearance:

• scruffyness (sorry - I know it's very upper-class to be scruffy but still...)
• flat or frizzy hair with no style
• too many colours worn at the same time
• beige, unshapely clothing (not in the draped style of HUSH)
• being overweight (unless your excess weight is beautifully distributed)

Regarding the posture debate, I see many a girl out and about and on Instagram with terrible posture. It seems to be a thing to stand in a hunched manner. I don't that in itself is a marker of frumpiness.

Frump to me is:
mum hair
block heel clumpy black shoes, boots or sandals
white stuff cap sleeve shirts in twee designs and lots of colours
those calf length combat style trousers
linen trousers
boot cut jeans that end at the ankles

Jimmy,

I sometimes get stuck in a T shirt and scraped back hair rut, and then if I wear a skirt and my hair down, people comment.

That always makes me determined to wear nicer clothes/hair more often!

The opposite reaction of you.

I think: I need to wear this more often so people don't comment. And that works!

I think there are women who are simply spectacularly bad at matching garments and colours- call it a lack of artistic eye or whatever.
Item A does not 'go' with Item B in any shape of form, it's just 'to hand' so they sling it on.

Then there are women who seem to want to look asexual- often the over 60s- who dress in faded jeans, a fleece and trainers for the supermarket shop, along with their cropped grey mannish hair and no make up.

Then there are women who look overly smart whatever the occasion - but in a 20 years out of date way.

And then there are the wallflowers who are scared of looking good so hang onto their dated,comfortable clothes because they don't want anyone to take any notice of them.

IMO frumpy is wearing styles that don't flatter you, colours that aren't right for you, styles that are well and truly over ( yet not retro), not taking care of your hair to get a decent cut, not wearing make up when even a little would really make you look fresher and healthier.

I have a friend who I think always looks fab - she is the same age as me (51) ,has less money to spend but never looks frumpy - she has a natural sense of style and can wear tunics,leggings,flats and looks great . I am slimmer and try very hard - maybe that's the problem - sometimes it works - sometimes I am frumpy because I thought too much about it . I live in scotland and am definitely sometimes over-dressed which imo can make you frumpy . I never go out without make-up, don't shop on the high street ( what do they do for older women - mint velvet ok if you only want grey black. or navy and yes what has gone wrong with jigsaw) I do think its an individual thing -despite being a size 8-10 I have tree trunk legs and have only recently decided that buying trousers too big don't make my legs look thinner - they will always look fat and I will never look like the woman I really want to be . This week for a walking holiday on skye I bought clothes to suit that - not me to be honest and so a waste of money.so to have the best chance of avoiding frumpiness buy stuff that you really like if you can find it - to suit your shape but not be a slave to that or to any colour scheme but remember some people are naturally stylish and some are not and that doesn't depend on size ,shape or any particular kind of clothes . Also what I think looks stylish and what dh thinks looks stylish(tight and short) are very different

what I think looks stylish and what dh thinks looks stylish(tight and short) are very different

Eyeroll at your DH, but of course different people's ideas of what's frumpy/stylish/etc will vary :) The MN S&B addiction to scarves strikes me as almost as hilarious as having your colours done - but I can see the appeal of both, and that the look thus implied is a version of stylish. Not mine, but valid all the same.

Every tenth post or so has stressed the importance of expressing who you are through your appearance (on the days when it's worth bothering ) Fashion should be fun, and it's enjoyable to experiment with ideas and discover what you like best (on different days!)

I've got a certain amount of clothes - all second-hand and/or rehashed at home - that are my 'dressing up' clothes, in the same sense as the childrens' game. This board would probably have seven fits if I showed you what I wear in town on my 'playing' days but, you know what? My barmy outfits work for me. And they sure aren't frumpy!

Mind you, I'm currently wearing a long jersey sack dress with flip-flops, no bra and crap hair. If I were found dead in the street, passers-by would think somebody had emptied their washing basket out there.

I sat near a woman on a train today. She was in her sixties, short and very plump, wore no visible make-up and had short grey hair - and she looked fabulous. To the point where I found myself looking at her repeatedly. She had a very nice mop of iron-grey curls that looked in lovely condition and was very well-cut by someone who understood cutting curly hair, rather chic glasses, and was wearing a gorgeous vivid purple soft blazer-style jacket and a long, loose dress in a big, brightly-coloured print that featured the same unusual shade of vivid purple. Yet you looked at her, and how attractive, comfortable, confident and individual she looked, not at her clothes, and it didn't look matchy-matchy either.

If a woman at my new evening class turned up with obvious lipstick on I'm afraid my reaction would be, initially at least to be a bit put off her.

You would be put off a woman because she wore lipstick?

If I were found dead in the street, passers-by would think somebody had emptied their washing basket out there.

I was trying on some outfits the other day and after reading this thread I was interrogating DP on each one, 'But is it frumpy, it has to be the opposite of frumpy?'.

He sounded exasperated and said 'I don't know what frumpy means'. I didn't know where to begin so I just didn't say anything.

Well that will teach you not to ask a man his opinion on clothes then

Noodd

you said you never shop on the High St now as you can't find anything you like....

I'm a bit older than you but manage to find things - maybe we have different tastes?

I don't buy everything from one store- but mix and match, obviously.
I avoid anything that is 'obvious' White Stuff or Boden, but I do buy basics from them- cardigans without motifs, trousers and very occasionally a summer dress.

I also buy knitwear from The White Company- including their wool dresses and tunics ( seen nothing I like this year that is under £100), and the odd item from Jigsaw- that isn't shapeless .
Ditto Mint Velvet- don't suit black near my face but they have nice coats ( parka style), macs and trousers (imo).

JimmyC - good luck on your evening class - sounds like a good plan.

Eek - does anyone else recognise themselves in some of the frumpiness descriptions, but not everyday thankfully.

I've been on frump-watch also and was in the local post office. An older lady with greying, hair and sundress looked frumpy to me. At first I thought it was her hair that ruined the image, then I realised it was the shoes ( open toed sandals). They didn't suit the outfit and made an okay image look frumpy.

Thanks Rivercam.

polyhymnia You know when someone who always wears glasses takes them off and they look sooooo different, wrong even? There's a lovely mum I know who always has red lipstick on. Sometimes she looks smart, sometimes a bit dishevelled but 1) the lipstick always tricks me into believing that she has made an effort, and 2) she would look wrong without it. Most people I know would do a double take at me if I wore lipstick. I want the people at my evening class to see me as someone who always wears it. So if they did spot me away from the class without it I would look wrong to them.

I'm self conscious about making changes to my image so this evening class is my experiment. If I can be non frumpy there and carry it off it will give me the confidence to do it in real life.

I experimented with make up in the bathroom last night and realised that I never practise looking good. I expect to get up one morning and throw everything together successfully somehow. So my EC is my practice session!

"If a woman at my new evening class turned up with obvious lipstick on I'm afraid my reaction would be, initially at least to be a bit put off her."

Why? Some of my nicest friends always wear lipstick.

A tip that was given to me was if you have pierced ears never go out without earrings in, and always wear lipstick. Apparently it peps up whatever you are wearing. So even if I am just going to Tesco for the weekly shop I always wear earrings and lipstick.

Nancy I totally agree about the androgynous hair do favoured by many older ladies. My SIL has that sort of hair do because it is "easy" but it is so frumpy.