What makes a person frumpy?

[Ladyfoxglove]

I'm feeling decidedly frumpy at the moment. Whilst trying on some old clothes the other day, I caught sight of myself from the back in a full length mirror and I look just like my mother did twenty years ago horrors!

The trouble is, although I'm looking at all the nice new clothes around about now I can't decide what to get. I get my hair cut and highlighted regularly (shoulder length, straight) and I'm 5' 7" and reasonably slim, instead of the effect I'm after (sophisticated, slightly edgy but natural), I'm more average 46 year old frumpy, boring woman from the Midlands. I can't pinpoint where I'm going wrong.

I look similar to Kate Winslet but I'd rather look like kristen taekman (sorry for Real Housewives reference but that's the look I like).

Any suggestions?

Much easier when at slimmest boobs defintiely up the frump factor for me and turn some beautiful things into hattie Jacques style sacks

pinkfrocks if you are still reading this - where do you get your plain merino tunics from?

do you mean boob expansion makes you look frumpier?

Like the Hattie Jaques reference, she was pretty and married to John Le Measurier who may have been a bit of a catch in his day ? (sure you know all this anyway)

I think there's an element of dressing for different figures, it works the other way, there was a lovely dress I bought last summer when a bit bigger and looked really good in it, very flattering shape. When I lost weight end of last year, I found the dress was in the January sales in my new smaller size, bought it, assumed would look even better now in the right, smaller size, but it didn't look anywhere near as good.

Different styles suit different body shapes, being larger requires wearing different shapes, it's not automatic that large boobs = frumpy, more wearing something that's designed for a smaller body shape and then scaled up to larger sizes will look wrong, and the opposite way, something designed to flatter a bigger figure wo'nt look quite right when made smaller.

In fact, quite a lot of styles that suit a larger body shape do look really frumpy on a skinny body, even if they fit. The idea that a thin woman "can wear anything" isn't strictly true. (Unfortunately, it's less of an obvious issue as most clothes are designed for a smaller body shape)

Not sure if I've explained what I mean very well...

All these 'frumpy is...' posts describe me I may be suffering a severe case of self-delusion, but I don't think most people would call me frumpy. I'm going with those who say "express yourself" and "look like you enjoy your appearance". If I have to give a specific, I'd venture that dull hair's the worst crime. You can get away with frizzy, unkempt or dirty hair as long as it's shiny. It's not chic to be frizzy/unstyled - but chic isn't the opposite of frumpy

Disagree about the sheer tights. Not that I condone wolf-whistling - but presumably suggests non-frumpiness - was whistled at yesterday in the street, was wearing plain back shift dress, high heels, sheer tights, only jewellery was a watch.

The coolest women never slavishly follow fashion. In fact the most stylish women tend to avoid high fashion- look at Olivia Palermo, Anna Del Russo and Miroslava Duma. These three dress solely in whatever is new and as a consequence look like somebody painted them with honey and rolled them through the Net A Porter warehouses. They might wear beautiful clothes BUT they lack a defined personal style. I am averse to that avaricious buying up of the new season just because it is new.

You don't need to buy up a new wardrobe every fashion season- that is the behaviour of people who are in thrall to manipulation and lack their own fashion identity- just choose a few things to update your wardrobe. Everything is cyclical in low to mid range fashion and cycles are getting shorter) and in high fashion most of the innovation is in technique and fabric. The designers are having to design clothing that is harder for the High St to copy so they are using luxe fabrics and trimmings, techniques that use unusual fabrics and engineering to create unusual marriages between fabrics such as tweed, concrete and neoprene (Chanel, Christopher Kane); all to deter High St mass fashion versions. So if you cannot afford High End it is best to go for fewer and better.

I think about how I want to lead my life and wear clothes accordingly. I am not interested in men looking at me nor do I want to be sexually evaluated by them so my clothing pleases me and I guess I dress for other women who love clothes but don't want to be defined by them. I don't like showing cleavage at all (think a lot of tit looks unprofessional at work) nor a lot of leg. I want my clothes to feel imperceptible, to not twist and ruck and ride up.

Find what you like to wear and buy the best that you can afford. Buy the best you can afford in the classics too- a good pair of cigarette leg pants (if they suit you) or the shape that does in a non fashion colour- go for dark grey, navy (looks more stylish than black) or black. Buy loads of good plain, well cut T shirts and go for quality in footwear- good boots- ankle, under the knee and one more fashion-y style. Avoid anything that is in the colour and the style of the season. For example if pink is in and a teddy bear/cocoon coat is in, don't buy a pink teddy bear/cocoon coat. Get the cocoon coat in a neutral. That way it lasts if you buy quality.

Never wear the belt that comes with a High St purchase because they always look cheap. Chuck them out and replace with a plain leather belt. Invest in good shoes, good tights and well fitting underwear.

Also find a dressmaker or learn some simple techniques yourself. Change buttons, trim necklines, take clothing in - all things that make High St look more bespoke. I have my pants hems adjusted, skirts taken in and other small details amended to make clothing fit me better- even the designer stuff.

Hi, just wanted to say thank you for this thread! I had a good read last night and recognised myself in a lot of peoples descriptions of frumpy.

I always feel inferior/underdressed/unkempt next to some of the "yummy mummies" at various activities I go to. I know that some of them are probably too far the other way and are overdressed and also that I don't need to compete as such and they probably don't even notice or judge me but I still feel that way.

Part of it is to do with the fact that I'm not happy with my figure and always think I won't buy more clothes as I'll lose weight but this is silly really and I shouldn't put feeling good on hold until I'm slimmer.

I've done some research into what clothes I should wear to suit my shape (rather than just sticking in my comfort zone) and I have a shopping list to work with.

Today I went to a baby class and a 1st birthday party and rather than just scrape my hair back and throw on my usual uniform of leggings and a baggy top, I chose a nice top and skinny jeans, straightened my hair and put a little bit of make up on (subtle eyeshadow, mascara, bit of concealer and a shimmer lip balm). I still felt fat but I didn't feel inferior and frumpy!

A small victory :)

I'd like to point out that the only people who actually put effort into looking "fashionable" in Paris, are the tourists. It's pretty rare to see people in anything other than jeans.

Personally, I think "frumpy" is when:

Someone prioritises comfort at the expense of literally everything else.
The cut is terrible (or utterly shapeless),
The fabric 'looks' cheap or like an item of clothing that hasn't been finished yet
Two words: chintz and paisley
The shoes look like blocks of plastic
Wearing a mid length skirt with boots - especially chunky ankle boots.

It's not something I go about noticing on a day to day basis though. I actually "judge" people much more for clattering onto the tube in their ridiculous six inch stilettos, too tight clothes, and two inch thick make-up. It's like their vanity won't allow their common sense any head way whatsoever. They also tend to be obnoxious and rude - presumably because they're so tired after getting up at 3am to get ready for work.

I'm the Jigsaw top purchaser near the top of this thread, I bought all 3 tops because summer is coming here in Oz so I wanted to try and get a good range for casual and work wear. Also, sometimes it is hard to see patterns on a computer screen so I will take something back if it does not look right.

Anyway.....
My dilemma is that I am an ex art/fashion student, I grew up in the 80's90's wearing black jeans, doc martens, band t-shirts, had great naturally curly hair which I never blow dried, and I wore minimal makeup, I was good looking and slim, but never knew it or felt it. I have never worn clothes to attract men and still don't. I was immersed in the all-nighter warehouse party scene, where wearing a dress and heels with loads of makeup would have looked re-dick, I hung out with like minded arty/musical types and probably didn't grow out of this stage until I was 34.

I am now 41, I live in a different country and really have to be careful what I wear because although I work in an office I won't conform to the typical office dress style, and as such I can either look great or awful. I am 75 kg at 5 foot 5, so am overweight, the fat congregates on my arms, thighs and ass. When I see photos of myself I get deeply depressed because in my mind I am still that free spirited art student, yet when I see myself in photos I look dumpy and I feel I have let myself go.

So having read the whole of this thread I have started to put together a word document at work, with 'successful outfits' detailed on it, so far this week I think I have got it right. I am lucky in that I work with young people, who think I am in my 30's! so I don't have an issue with looking old, it is wearing the right clothes for my shape and just getting the over all look right. I met with a clothing consultant last year as I was really desperate because I just kept on buying the wrong clothes, I had my colours done too, and the consultant told me it was all about 'harmonising'.

Basically what I am trying to get across I think, is that I am still that young minded person inside, at 41 I don't want to conform and yet I don't look like that young person, and I am still trying to figure out what works with my body shape and lifestyle.

I have been invited to a dinner in November and the dress code is Cocktail. I have no idea what this means, I don't do dresses or heels. So I am lost. I am pinning my hopes on 'Cos' which is opening up soon in the city I live in. Also, I am back in the UK for Xmas and have no idea what to wear for Xmas parties etc. My sister looks like someone from TOWIE, my other family members think she looks fantastic...I don't....

this is really long isn't it, I think must have had too much caffeine, sorry.

It sounds like you have a secure sense of who you ate, and therefore the dress style will just fall into place!

Not ATE, ARE ARE ARE!

Outfits of all the same colour with nothing to break it up - beige linen trousers, a beige t-shirt, beige hotter sandals. If you are overweight and poor and rely on charity shops for all of your clothes you wear what can be afforded rather than what you like.

"Frumpy, for me, simply means unfashionable."

IMO, frumpy isn't unfashionable, it is being unstylish, wearing the wrong colours and wearing ill fitting clothes.

In your opinion I would be classed as frumpy because I am not a slave to fashion. I wear the trends that suit me and miss out on those that don't. I had my colours done years ago and absolutely won't wear any unflattering colours.

I occasionally wear heels to work (3 inch is as high as I will go), but really cannot walk very far in them, so for day to day wear I wear flats all the time as I walk very fast and can't do that in ridiculous shoes.

I don't think the extremely high heel wearers realise how ridiculous they look when teetering about in silly shoes.

If they're teetering, they shouldn't be wearing those shoes

I disagree with everyone else about colours. I think the only definite faux-pas is a head-to foot outfit that matches your skin colour - so, yes, beige can be a mistake if you're 'white'. Depends on the shade of your skin at the time. Over-co-ordination can just make you fade into the background; clashing colours can work brilliantly if you experiment a bit. I also think the easiest way around the 'leggings and a loose top' problem is to have one of those items in a strong colour!

I was out yesterday and people watching.
I happened to see a group of older women- all 60+.

The frumpy ones were in beige- tops and bottoms. They were also wearing clothes for 'comfort'- droopy and loose.
One who stood out as unfrumpy wore a navy and white floral fitted dress and a bright pink cardi. She was also slim.

I also saw a much younger woman who looked IMO frumpy- her skirt was claf length and had masses of material in it, it was khaki colour teamed with a cream top, and flat shoes. Basically the clothes were not flattering in any shape or form- far too much material which made her look bigger.

People who looked frumpy looked as if they had shut their eyes when taking their clothes out of the wardrobe and just thrown on anything- whether it went together or not- really odd tops with casual trousers, often a few sizes too big, no effort made with hair or make up....

sorry for sounding bitchy but the impression was that they had made zilch effort.

pinkfrocks completely agree! And I wonder where people buy those shapeless trousers, and nylon blouses. I wonder if part of it is not have a full length mirror at home. I wish we had bought one ( a fiver in Ikea!) before I put on a load of weight - I think I would have been less likely to do if I had looked at myself in a mirror every day.

Kaykay, that's true in a sense about Paris - the local female look tends to be quite conservative, and consist of a uniform in a small number of neutral colours, understated make up, make up and accessories - but I think it depends on what your point of departure is.

There's a blog I sometimes read (god knows why, she's naive and rather annoying, maybe I just find her self-belief disarming) by a middle-aged American living in Paris, who often gives 'style tips' to her American readership planning to visit Paris. She continually emphasises that to 'fit in' American tourists should not rock up in trainers, money belts, rucksacks, and elastic-waisted 'mom jeans' or those zip-off nylon trousers-into-shorts, which suggests she imagines that to be their point of departure.

(Having said that, I think some of what she's saying about day to day dress in Paris is to do with how little car-dependent suburban Americans tend to regularly walk long distances unless they are on holiday in, say, a European city, so they've absorbed the idea from US 'tips for tourists' websites that they need to dress as though they were about to embark on some sporting endeavour. )

Which is, I suppose, to say that 'styles' of frumpiness vary from culture to culture...

Yes, so much hyperbole (and downright crap) is written about the 'stylish' Parisian women. They really aren't TBH.

Over-co-ordination can just make you fade into the background;

maybe that is why they over co-ordinate? Low self esteem meaning that they want to fade into the background?

Yes, it's quite likely, Lava :) That's often the reason why people choose 'frumpy', too. Nothing wrong with it, but OP wants to de-frump!

I dunno -- I think the Parisian 'look' as described is stylish. It's certainly not frumpy or fashionable. If you look closely, there's a lot of attention to little details. Overall, it comes across as a well thought out look undertaken with a view to flattering the figure and not looking as if the clothes are wearing you.

Yes but under coordination is just as bad.

"I disagree with everyone else about colours."

I don't agree. If you are wearing the right colours people notice that you look good. If they only notice what you are wearing then you are wearing the wrong colours.

Wearing the right colours doesn't mean wearing the same colour top to toe. It just means wearing a range of colours that suit you and that co-ordinate with everything else.