what SHOULD M&S be doing?

[redhappy]

Apologies if this has been done before.

It seems a fairly universal experience to walk into a store and be totally disppaointed (putting it kindly!) by the clothing.

Just wondered what people think they should be selling.

I haven't really given it much thought yet, but I suppose a classic range a bit like white company but cheaper, a casual range like fat face or white stuff, I'm not sure about a work range, but also an evening range that's a bit like monsoon and also some less hippy more classic styles.

I went in with DS to buy school shoes. He's size 8, so a common enough size of men's shoes you would think. Found a style he liked, and asked for it in his size to be told that all the stock was out, as they didn't hold stock anymore. Did offer to order and would be in store in a couple of days, but when you've actually managed to get a teen to come shopping, you want to make sure you buy something that fits there and then.

This was a big store - Glasgow Sauchiehall street. And there are never enough staff on the shop floor, so you have to stand in the queue to pay just to ask a question. I won't be going back.

I soo agree wrigletto - I want design brains used as well as decent natural fabrics, please. So, in terms of a 'basic' for instance, I'd like a cashmere jersey in a modern cut priced at, say, 20 quid less than the Cos one. They did pieces like this last year - I own the whole range - but this year the choice was back to retro-with-no-irony.

I'd like T-shirts that look as if they were designed in the 21st century, not 1990 in Gap's back room. Available in white as well as that unmistakeably M&S salmon and jade.

If M&S still insist on being tricksy and specialist, let the specialisms be those that are proven to be wanted on the market - such as, say, a range of dresses for the larger-bosomed lady - not a range of explosive neon from a reality star turned anorexic.

And no to the relentless viscose and polyester - modal and cotton are just as cheap and more appealing. Colour subtlety - see above - would help a lot. Avoid greige but do neutrals. Avoid lilac, coral and mint in favour of Kate Middleton colours.

What's shocking is that this stuff is pretty easy and cheap for a retailer to do - you just need designers without glaucoma who like the stuff they make.

Back to basics! Stop trying to follow 'fashion' with pleather miniskirts, the sooner they realise that hip young people don't want to go to Marks the better. They had a bridal range a few years ago which was stunning.

When I was in my mid to late twenties, I quite often bought stuff in M&S. Jeans, plain cotton jerseys and cardigans, underwear, socks, T shirts etc etc. None of it was particularly fashionable, but it wasn't actively unfashionable either. It was just plain ordinary basic stuff that pretty much everyone needs at reasonable prices. There were also quite good knock offs of slightly more fashionable stuff - I still have a couple of fake Ghost type crepe loose summer dresses that I bought in the mid-nineties. One is pale grey and one is white. They are extremely plain but they have been looking nice on holiday for more than fifteen years.

Now that I'm 43, I feel that a lot of stuff in M&S is too old for me. There are a few nice bits but anything that is too fashion-focused tends to be subtly wrong - the colours in particular are often awful. There are few proper basics. The underwear is not as nice as it used to be and the sizing seems to have changed considerably (the size 8 pants are massive compared to the size they used to be, and they don't have enough lycra in them compared to similarly priced pants from elsewhere). My mum thinks a lot of it is too frumpy for her and she is 67. FWIW, the places that get it right for me with basics are Gap, Uniqlo and the less fashiony/youthful parts of H&M.

I bought some nice stuff for all of my family the other day. Just sayin...

Just popped in for a browse to by wine and nibbles and hey presto, skirts, and pretty tops and casual stuff for me and the dh...

Could have been a one off though...

Good industry analysis of what they are doing wrong and how to fix it, including how to respond to what is selling, here:

editd.com/blog/2012/07/sos-for-ms/

M & S seem to be very much "la la can't hear you", though, for both industry experts like these people, and their own customers. When will they start to listen? sigh

Oh, as well as basics I want to be SURPRISED and DELIGHTED by a couple of pieces. That's the ideal retail combo for me - and M&S is in a perfect position to do so. For instance, make a shoe I like but as a footglove - like a very plain sandal in leather. Or perfect silk pyjamas I can wittily wear as outerwear, like.

Minimalism is in now for a long time, so this sort of thing should not be difficult to produce.

M&S as a label has no cachet - so that's why people don't want a dress that screams M&S. They want three t-shirts they can rely on to look good and that are better than the ones in next and possibly cheaper - this they will pay for.

Even better, I'd like the store to think up the ideas - cos you're paid for that, market research lady reading this. Think up the idea, improve on it, try a bit harder. Then do better than that.

Back to basics, so agree with everyone else. I'm over 50 and I wouldn't wear that tat!

Cotton, silk etc agree. No to vile clingy polyester !
I tend to buy work suits (shift dress & jacket) from Alexa which is cheaper end of Alexon from outlet. Good fit for the curved and gravity ravaged.

Try and stop the clothes sections looking and feeling like a jumble sale, they are packed out and hard to navigate , basic stuff really

I used to love Per Una until someone on Mumsnet said two words: "Audrey Roberts". since the I haven't been near it.

Back to good quality basics - please. It really does feel like M&S is losing its way in clothes across the board.

A couple of examples from me.

I went into M&S this summer when back in the UK - I thought it would be the ideal place to buy a simple, good quality black pashmina-type scarf, for a wedding in the chilly English summer. I avoided Accessorize, as they never seem to have the simple pieces - always add sequins or bobbles, etc...

I could have had my pick of strange colored, weird looking or fancy scarves and shawls - in tie die, or rainbow or funny fishnet type fabrics. But I could not find a simple black pashmina.

I also wanted some black work trousers - but could only get either elasticated waist granny pant-type things, or elaborate prints, etc.... And I had to walk around the store about 6 million times to find all the places where they had trousers.

Also, my DH ended up going to Gap, because all the men's chinos in M&S had elasticated waists and he is 45 and does not want to look 85 when he buys trousers.

Not such a success for us this year, except for Ds's clothes, but that is only because we bought a couple of Union Jack print t-shits and a dressing gown. The basics for him are so much simpler here at Old Navy.

T-shirts that aren't designed for Winnie the Pooh.

Classic colours instead of garish prints.

There is no need for 48 racks of linen trousers.

Types of clothes stocked together - I have no wish to scour the entire store to find the one dress I liked the look of online.

A return to decent underwear lines and all bra-fitters to be re-trained to measure and fit bras correctly. Also reintroduce there-and-then fitting - I have no desire to make an appointment for a week's time if I want to buy a bra now.

Children's clothes without the characters on - leave that to the supermarkets.

Consistent sizing in children's clothing - DD currently has M&S clothes in age 2-3, 3-4 & 4-5 due to sizing inconsistencies.

Remember that not all children are short.

Sort out stock issues - so much is out of stock so quickly there must be fundamental mistakes being made in your ordering and planning.

That's enough to be getting on with, but to be honest it is only the tip of the iceberg.

Totally agree with good quality and value basics, reduce fussiness and frumpiness. Along the lines of Gap plain cotton t-shirts/chinos/cardigans etc. No frills no flounces like Per Una. When I go in I just can't see anything at ALL that would appeal to me unless I wanted to the style of a untrendy 70-year old.

I am 36 and shop in Top Shop, Gap, H&M, New Look and Dorothy Perkins. I would be happy to see the styles of the above shops but in good quality materials, ie, replace viscose/polyester with cotton and charge a bit more.

And please stock some smaller sizes that are true to size! I'm a petite size 8 and nothing in store would fit me.

The children's clothes are very hit and miss for me, although I can't really say what is wrong with them apart from too many 'sets' and not enough basics.

Improve quality, I had a lovely sweater but it was so thin. Clothes I generally find uninspiring apart from basics, black cords, linen trousers etc. the odd cardi. I prefer our local smaller store as I find the big one overwhelming....just too much and apparently it willbe extended.
Love their cards, like dine in and good for Christmas....so not all bad.

Definitely agree with going back to good quality basics that are not frumpy but timeless. I hate frilly clothes but love some pieces by chains like Whistles and Comptoir where there is perhaps one element of the clothes that distinguishes as something that has been designed rather than churned out. I want clothing that I can wear year after year with just a change of accessories or a seasonal piece and know its going to last, look good and flatter me. I find it almost perverse that you often spend more money on clothing that is simply designed but well cut and good quality. Surely there is less effort in achieving that?

Move back to natural fabrics as well. It's not just M & S that's guilty of this, a lot of the high street are and it makes my teeth itch. The White Company are good at this.

Not everything has to have a pattern, frill, logo etc - I want clothing that doesn't scream where it was bought from and can be mixed and matched with the rest of my wardrobe. Same goes for the boys clothes - I don't want to dress my son in synthetic knitwear and even when I do find something I like I don't want it to be part of a twee outfit. I want him to dress like a little boy but not be shoehorned into the stereotypical idea of what a boy should dress like. I hate Next for this too. Let me buy good quality items in a good range of colours that are not variations of bleurgh brown or blue. Boden is expensive but at least I can get some good quality basics that last and can be mixed in with plain basics from H & M.

I have been been lucky with shoes but I have small feet so am often able to pick up the more expensive ranges in the sale or a tenner or less and often get compliments on them.

Underwear - increasingly expensive but no discernible difference in quality. If anything, it's declined. I have made repeated mistakes in giving them one more go but having just been to Selfridges today and Peter Jones on Saturday, I've resolved that in future I'd rather just have the minimum in underwear but of the best quality. I'll probably save a lot of money in the long term if I stick to my resolve.

Ditch some of the designers etc in homeware - you frequently see the Conran range on sale as its over priced in the first instance. Stop creating whole ranges in the same design. It reminds me of my mum's mid 80's room that was top to toe in Country Lady. Again, look to the White Company and John Lewis for good quality, classic bedding and accessories. I want to be comfortable in bed, not an overheated mass of static from the polyester count.

Finally, stop trying to do everything - ditch technology, the banking, silly designer labels (I don't want to be seen in what Lisa Snowden, Twiggy et al are wearing). M & S isn't a department store and shouldn't try to do everything as it is spreading itself too thinly. Focus on what it is traditionally known for and get back to basics.

DW has always been a loyal M&S customer with a store card of many years use too. Time was when a trip to Marble Arch Flagship Branch would mean serious retail therapy but alas no more. She is hard pushed to even find things in the managers final reductions in the Sales which she would part with £3 - £6 for!

She feels that she somehow falls twixt the stools - not the figure any more (her words not mine) to wear a lot of the Limited Collection stuff but not really casual enough for the Autograph Collection and certainly too fashion forward for Per Una and the general ranges.

M&S could do well to look at Mint Velvet for ideas she thinks. Their prices haven't really gone up significantly since the 90s but their quality and design have certainly suffered!

Thought this was going to be an M&S driven thread - I wonder if they will sit up and listen to what is being said!

alwaysrunning - are you me? those are my go to shops for good quality basics, most of my non-work wardrobe comes from those three.

M&S - good quality basics in neutral colours.
Lose the applique everything.
Natural fibres

Babies clothes without slogans/applique teddy bears on them in other colours than pink or blue.

Children's clothes in less garish colours.

Pyjama tops and bottoms that actually go with one another rather than 'fun' contrasts.

When they do get it right on the basics (Autograph baby vests, girls briefs) they are brilliant, wash time and time again and are cut beautifully.

Great jeans - they do have quite a good selection, but they could be updated somewhat.

Agree re kids clothes outside of the pink/blue clichés.

Shoes with a solid mid heel - who are the women wearing all the uber high heels M&S have been selling lately?? I don't know any of them.

More natural fibres - not as in linen blend stripy top with appliqué, but as in great dresses NOT made from polyester (that will stick to you and make you sweat etc).

Just wondering about those saying they should be selling top quality basics.
I'm currently wearing a black fitted T and black cigarette trousers from M&S. They are quality basics.

They should stop doing whatever it is that takes a half decent looking piece and puts a mumsy stamp on it. You can never quite put your finger on what it is. You pick up something thinking it might be the ticket then find smocking or a shoelace belt or a sewn on bloody bead necklace
They should stop that.

claudiecutie that's a really interesting industry insight - thanks for posting that link!

For all her battiness elsewhere, Liz Jones is often right on the money with what M&S is doing well/badly in fashion terms. The problem I have with my local (regional) branch is that they only stock Classic/Per Una plus the drab M&S Woman basics, so even if I wanted to buy any of their 'key pieces' I couldn't. That wouldn't matter if their core stock was decent quality, but as it is the whole store is a velour/polyester/viscose wasteland. More fire hazard than clothes shop.

I think the M&S designers need to spend a week or two on the shop floor. As do the buyers. They need to look at what women are drawn to, and what areas are being ignored. They should look at the size and shape of their customers. They should look at which sizes and brands and designs are selling well for what size woman, and which are not. They should be able to look at what's being returned too, for quality and sizing/fit issues - all of which should be easy to programme into their systems.

In short, they don't know their market. I think they are so busy trying to woo a fictional 20 something that they expect anyone over 40 to settle for whatever tat they are trying to plug as "fashion".

And they seem oblivious to the changing shapes of women in the last umpteen years.

The last time I was there, I watched several middle ages ladies making a Bee-line for some pretty sun dresses. They were cut in a flattering shape with pretty but not garish colours, around £40-50. None of these ladies were small. None of them found anything in their size.

Also, if you accept the House of Colour type people, most English women are "springs" - soft muted pallets of blue/green/pink/browns in blue tones. Not fluorescent orange and salmon.

That said, I like the Indigo line. It appeals to my inner hippie.

Maybe M&S should host a Mumsnet fashion show, with wine and ratings cards. We could let them know what we think of their designs....surely we are largely their target audience?

Foof, i think that in times gone by you could go to the trouser section or blouse section and select your required item. A bit like a supermarket. It was easy to shop for the items that you wanted and the range was extensive. I remember buying the cotton jumpers as a teen and they had racks of colours and two or three styles.

I bet you had to search for your items, if not you were lucky. The last time i went in with a buggy, it was so crammed that i couldn't get the buggy round. It was so difficult to shop, too stressfu. The peruna was gharish and all made me feel a bit sick.

I want a couple of cashmere jumpers and cardis, that fit well, i just want ti go to the jumper section. I'm time pressed and don't enjoy the hunt like i do years ago. I should be the m and s basics customer, mid 30's two children....

What everyone else said.

Good quality timeless basics please.