what SHOULD M&S be doing?

[redhappy]

Apologies if this has been done before.

It seems a fairly universal experience to walk into a store and be totally disppaointed (putting it kindly!) by the clothing.

Just wondered what people think they should be selling.

I haven't really given it much thought yet, but I suppose a classic range a bit like white company but cheaper, a casual range like fat face or white stuff, I'm not sure about a work range, but also an evening range that's a bit like monsoon and also some less hippy more classic styles.

Yes, what everyone else says. And I do hope m&s are taking note!

Oh, and stop trying to squash so much in. I can't get round with a single buggy, let alone my monster double.

alwaysrunning - yes, Isabella Oliver has changed its name to Baukjen.

Smaller sizes - 8s are often too big for me, and worse than that they are often incredibly hard to find - at least in London. I see racks and racks of untouched large sizes and NO 8s.

Shorter hem lines - I would love to buy nice work clothes in Marks and I've found great shift dresses in there but the hem is around my shins. Edwardian is not a good look.

I can't remember the last time I bought clothes in Marks actually other than tights, knickers and socks.

Babyrabbits, yes you're right I will say when I spotted these trousers I was making my way out having ploughed through an entire trouser section.

It's actually very telling that these were labelled as "modern slim leg" thus suggesting that everything else is not modern.

Top quality basics. Decent coats and shoes and maybe one extra range like limited but ditch all the rest esp per una and the horror that is that denim collection. British style at a mid price so macs riding boots etc but in modern shapes.

What everyone else says. It makes me livid that you can't get a bra fitting without an appointment, even when the fitters are standing around doing nothing. It's not the dentist, FGS! I'm late forties, and I wear clothes for a long time if I like them. I still have a couple of summer dresses from M and S that I bought years ago, and some basic pretty white T shirts with just a little bit of lace or a tiny frill at the neck, like Boden used to do - but they're all at least 5 years old now, because everything they (and Boden) sell now is either completely plain or encrusted with asymmetrical motifs. I can't find a plain, fitted, good quality black or grey cardigan at a sensible price. Their jeans are too big at the waist (or too small at the hips, depending on your viewpoint). Everything in Per Una has frayed bits and external seams; everything in other sections has elasticated waists; I don't have the complexion to wear bright colours, they make me look like the undead. When my plain, basic M and S mid-heeled boots wore out, I went back to replace them and found everything covered with straps or tassels or five inch heels or chains. The patterns are hideous. The stock is in too many places. They always sell out of 5 s in shoes. Their body shape is not the same as mine. It's all very sad :( And annoying.

Mind you, their seasonal biscuit tins are lovely.

Staff the bloody tills, as well. Shop never seems to be that busy: then you realise it's because everyone's in the queue for one or perhaps two tills! Infuriating, and you rarely get an apology, either.

Smaller sizes definitely - their sizing is a joke and totally out of line with most of the high street ime.

Bra fitters that actually know what they're doing/properly trained and will actually measure you, gasp, topless - seriously, how do they expect to fit you properly measuring over a bra with vast amounts of padding

And also, I'm sorry, but when I've just paid a fiver for a sandwich and a drink and some yum yums I don't expect to have to further fork out for a frigging carrier bag. Not on imo.

And another thing:
your lingerie section. I don't care if what you choose to call 'collections'. I want to walk in and find a nude t shirt bra, or a white sports bra - or whatever without having to conduct a major search initiative. And then find that my size (perfectly normal, average sort of size) is out of stock.
More pants that are not control pants, but flatter the rounder tum - I love lace shorts, but need them higher else its muffin top time.
Maybe show lingerie on a range of sizes, and tell me what those are - I love on ASOS that they tell me the height and size of models.
Bra fitters that know what they are doing. This service is woeful.

Uniqlo does what M&S used to do, that is, sells good quality basics in lots of plain colours. Downside to Uniqlo is that it doesn't do big sizes though.

I love on ASOS that they tell me the height and size of models
This is fantastic I agree and is essential to figure out how long a dress/skirt will be on me.

Just listen up Marks

I work in fashion ok!
Jeans. Bigger pockets lower set on the bum. Known fact to make bottoms appear smaller.
Choice of waist band height. But marginally. Some a little lower. Some a bit lower still. None higher.
Leg length. Who the hell have you been measuring? Do them in 1 inch variations FGS.

T shirts. Nice cotton not too thick or thin. 3 neck choices. 3 sleeve choices. Not the length you currently do.

Top lengths. Just longer. A lot longer. In all ranges, men women's and children.
Stop making them shorter to save money.

Tights. You know you are rippin off your customers with your cheap cut tights. Even the autograph ones are a disgrace and a disservice.

School uniform. I do not want to dress my children in plastic everyday. Until you stop with the polyester everything, I'm not playing!

Sizing. Give your manufacturers a list of sizes and tell them to use a tape measure. Have another FGS.

Cardigans and Knitwear. What do you do with all the unsold cashmillion crap?
Cotton, wool, cotton wool mix, cashmere. Simple shapes. simple lengths.
Enough with the sodding rainbows.

Work Wear.

M&S was my staple for work clothes, nothing drastic, just a nice suit, blazer, plain dress, trousers that fit, longer straight skirts, that sort of thing.

Nowadays I wander around, bewildered by the materials used and the hideous colour scheme. I tried to buy a plain black jumper there last year. The assistant was very nice but had to tell me that the only ones they had were in vomit beige, almost khaki or baby blue. I declined and went to Gap instead.

And as for Per Una, there are no words....

MORE NATURAL FIBRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

more wide fitting shoes..they always sodding sell out..so make more

Brilliant, shattereddreams!

M and s should build on the success of their jeggings. Nice subtle colours, brilliant fit and loads of size and length options. Something similar in tops and shirts would be great. Plain colours, different lengths would be great as I am always on the hunt for something longer and they should definitely start using a bit of lycra in their vests and tshirts.

I love indigo kids range however- dd is two and the quality and styles are really good value.

Quality lined wool trousers. Higher price points. Basics, plain colours.
Be more Jaeger than New Look.

I'm bloody fed up of telling m & s what they should be doing. I've been telling them for years and they don't listen.

Like I said five years ago, their customers want cheap Boden, not expensive Peacocks.

At the risk of being lynched, I work for M&S. On the shopfloor, so no influence whatsoever. I have been there a very, very long time.

Almost all these comments are discussed between staff on a daily basis. It is demoralising and demotivating but no one is listening to us either. Store management are cutting staffing to bone to hit budgets as it's the quickest win. But, is this not what's happening everywhere? Do more with less.

I agree with pp re getting back to basics. Most of the casual tops we were stocking for Spr/Sum were copies of what I was buying from the market in the 80's. If HO is staffed like the stores are I bet there's a lot of buyers having a laugh while working their notice. Don't know what our staff turnover is these days but, once upon a time, people with 10+ years service were ten a penny. But, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
When we had our "bad patch" 10 years ago someone decided that quality could be sacrificed for cheapness. It was all about volume. Now it's about spreading the risk. We are sent v little of any one line. If it sells out - great. If it doesn't - only half a dozen to go in the sale in 2 weeks time. No risk, but no reward either.

If it makes you feel better the staff are are as frustrated, if not more so, than you are. Even as a 20something 15 years ago I used to moan about giving them back half my wages. Couldn't tell you the last time I used my discount for anything other than food.

As everyone else has said, give us good quality basics in good quality materials, well made. Ditch the gaudy prints and nasty fabrics. Get rid of all the various ranges. Organise the shops better, so that things are easier to find.

But, what's all this about the current ranges being for "over 50s"? I'm over 50 and I wouldn't be caught dead in most of their recent stock, especially Per Una. I occasionally find something in the Indigo range, like a layering t-shirt maybe.

Give us some nice classic stuff - I mean classic as in well-fitting black trousers, white cotton shirts, jumpers / cardis in up-to-the minute colours, that will wash well, won't bobble or shrink after one wash. Get the little details right, like the length of the sleeves, the shape of the necklines, the size of the buttons.

Give us comfortable underwear that will act like scaffolding (holding us up or in) and will look good and feel good. No more crazy-coloured bras with skinny straps and too many seams on the cups. Knickers with decent-sized crotches, lately its like they are skimping on the (cheap) fabric.

I recently returned a two-pack of tights as, when I was putting on the first pair, I put a finger through them. I was so cross, I brought them in next day to complain. I wasn't expecting a refund but, fair play to them, I was immediately offered one. There are still great things about M&S, I find their customer service excellent. I would hate them to go under. Is there any hope for them? The autumn stock thats coming in at the moment is pretty dire. Do they even listen to their customers?

I really liked Per Una when it first appeared in our nearest store. Simple, minimal, plain colours, no frilly bits, a clever take on something sometimes. That must be over 10 years ago now. Everything Per Una isn't now.

futter you took the words right out of my mouth. Don't want to read again that they are aimed at over-50s because I, like you, am in that category and wouldn't be seen dead either in the vast majority of their stuff.

Agree with everyone else on what M and S should be doing. But they aren't . Autograph Weekend was only source of some good basics but now that's gone and Autograph are getting more bizarre and Per Unaish.

Good quality basics in proper fabrics. It's really not rocket science: in the days when M&S used to make money, it's what people associated the brand with. Now that they have stopped producing it they aren't making money any more. Funny, that.

Last winter I went into M&S looking for a jumper. I don't do acrylic. It feels horrible and it bobbles. It wasn't so much that I couldn't find a jumper I liked ... I couldn't find a jumper. Other than the cashmere range (which seems to be targetted at very very old ladies, possibly for them to buy as xmas presents for each other and return for cash in the New Year) there was nothing in the whole store that was just made out of wool. Viscose, polyester and acrylic, acrylic, acrylic. I was nervous of walking past the racks too quickly for fear of the whole place bursting into flames.

A friend who worked in M&S as a buyer at the time (she's left now, funnily enough...) was lamenting the price of natural fibre at the time. But Gap were having a sale that day, and their usual range of reliable merino basics was included so the plain polo-neck jumper I was looking for was reduced from £35 to £12. I don't see why Gap can do it but M&S can't. But apparently it's not just a jumper. It's an M&S jumper...

Update for M&S buyers = Over 50 is not old. Over 60 is not old. Over 70 is not old (according to most ladies and gents of this age group).

Like their designs, this M&S mindset is horribly out of date and borderline insulting. People won't wear it - literally.

The sort of people who will go into a clothes shop targeted at the over 50s, indeed one actually called that in public, don't like clothes and don't spend much on them. Regardless of how old they are. Change the headline or you're stuck with the skinflints.

Yes, marketing to the over-40s is hard, cliche hard, re clothes. But Jaeger, Whistles, Cos, Banana Republic and All Saints are getting it right. These are the shops nearby on the high street - maybe you could go in sometime. They don't have a no-floral polyester door policy, so you should be fine. And even if you frighten the assistants, they couldn't be sniffier than yours.

Altho I cringe at the thought of M&S does All Saints (can you imagine the DROOP, horror), please do a version of this lot - but cheaper.

Your customers want aspirational but cheaper. Not care home elasticated waists with a fuchsia iris on the arse. M&S food is established enough to try things out and be a bit fun - your clothing ain't any more. Classic is not a euphemism for dowdy - think fabric, design, fit for real people who want to look better.

And sort the Bras out. Their cup sizes are way smaller than Fantasie or Panache.
More perky but smooth fitting balconettes and less frumpy seamed bras that make your boobs go flat.
Indigo is ok but needs a bigger range.
Per Una is bloody awful fussy stylised crap these days. Sort of thing Hyacinth Bucket would wear.
And please, please have clothes with necklines to flatter big boobs. Scoops or deep vs or square. Not high neck t shirts and dresses.