So I've realised that I don't know what "frumpy" looks like...

[Blackden]

and therefore there's a very good chance that I am extremely frumpy.
I read the Boden thread with interest.

Can you please describe frumpy? Does it mean baggy and shapeless clothes? At my age I can't be wearing those 'BodyCon' type dresses (not got the figure for them either )
Or can you link me to some frumpy stuff because I just can't visualise it.

And, what's a 'wrong side of 45' woman to do? How can I avoid looking like mutton but not look frumpy?

I've been reading through this thread, and had a thought.

Wouldn't it be good to go shopping with a small group of complete strangers with a bit of an open mind?

By that I mean, if you go with people who don't know you and see you with fresh eyes and you are prepared to try on their choices of clothes... as a way of challenging the way you always shop and the things you always try on, without the personal shopper obligation feelings.

Everyone is different shapes and sizes. People think that if you are X shape and size, its much easier to dress for some than others. Perhaps it would make people consider more about their own bodies, be more sympathetic to others too and give a confidence boast to others...

mumat here is another exercise that might help or we can help you with.

Write down all the 'occasions' that you need to dress for. All of them, from school run, park with DC's, coffee with friends, lunch with family in a pub etc.

Think about what you would like to be wearing for each of these. Consider practicalities and think of the whole outfit so for example, dark jeans, drappy white top, big scarf, sunglasses, ballet flats etc. Don't worry about the specifics, such as cuts of jeans etc. Just get a good idea of what you want to wear. Get inspiration by going into town on a busy saturday and sit in a coffee shop and look at what other women are wearing, what do you think looks good? Try some magazines such as Red and easy living.

Once you have made a bit of a list, we can help here to direct you to some good shops where you'll find the type of item you need. For example, the difference between a stripy top in Next v's the White Company will be the world of difference.

Next or WC

I rest my case!

HmmThinkingAboutIt I think that's a great idea.

I once went shopping with a friend who is a petite size 8 ( I am not!). I thought it would be really easy go her to get clothes, but in fact it wasn't at all- just a different set of problems. We did find done nice stuff tho, and I learnt a valuable lesson.

mumat39, you might need a new bra - if you are conscious of saggy boobs and they are obscuring your waistline. I don't think anyone needs to look like that if they have the right support. They can be expensive depending on your size, but you don't need many.

About being at home in a cold house: this might be the ultimate frumperama, but I quite like a sort of fitted tweedy woolly approach to this. I know I look terrible in slouchy loungey clothes and only wear things like that in bed. The more I layer stuff like that up, the more I look like a pile of porridge. Our house is freezing and when I wasn't working this winter and we couldn't afford the heating, dds and I got up every day and leapt shivering into tight thermal vests, some other long sleeved layer, some jumpers - something chunky over something thinner, toning or pleasantly contrasting colours not matchy - and opaque tights and substantial skirts or trousers, and boots. I like this look when it kind of very vaguely and more randomly references a twinset + tweed sort of thing, though less matchy - a defined waist, jumpers and cardigans ending at the waist, robust materials piled over silkier things. Perhaps I looked a fright but I feel better like that than in baggy soft materials that make me look like Waynetta Slob. (I think some people look great in lounge wear but I feel uncomfortable in it as I look worse than terrible)

I am very frumpy at the moment . On a day to day basis this probably bothers me for about 5 minutes. However it is not important how i look , i do not need to be smart , i dont need to impress or make first impresions. I just need to get through the day with my sanity intact.
I have noticed on MN that alot of people seem to automatically slate anything that is 'popular' , like Boden, next , per una etc . I sometimes wonder if it is because they dislike people in their real lives who wear this stuff. I do notice what other people are wearing , some people always look good , some people dont and some people get it right most of the time . What these people have to say is far more important to me than how they dress.

Georgina Good list. I totally agree and would add White Company to that.

sorry, would add WC to the 'shops I can find stuff in' list!

oh and oranges I Love that Cos link. Those clothes are lovely

Interestingly I don't. I think those Cos clothes look frumpy. I wore batwing sleeves back in the 80s. You won't catch me wearing them again.

Ha - I've just got to a point in my life where I can afford to start buying the clothes in Monsoon that I've been drooling over for half my adult life, and now I discover that they're "frumpy"!

I don't care - after living in Primark and George from Asda for the last ten years, it feels positively FABULOUS to be wearing Monsoon!

The more I read this thread the more I don't care. If I am comfy and if I feel I look good that's fine by me. Am 52 and go to work and since last weekend I have worn:

Sat: Boden white A line skirt with navy ruffle cardigan with silvery/gold ballet pumps.

Sun: Black leggings, long linen tunic just above the knee.

Mon: Navy and white spotty lined voil skirt (Laura Ashley with a purple v neck top (Boden) and a fitted wool navy jacket (LA) - navy heels, pointed ala LK Bennet style but actually (Van Dal .

Tues: Navy and white linen dress, same jacket as Mon and same shoes.

Weds: Per Una suit - beige and navy with a navy ribbon trim - not fussy but a great shape - with the navy heels and a navy blouse (also per una).

Thurs: Boden dark blue skirt with blue circles at the hem and a turquoise ruffle cardigan and the ballet pumps.

Fri: Per una white bootcut jeans and a long line manteray t-shirt with the ballet pumps.

You know what, I am happy with that, am sure many would say I was frumpy but I always feel OK. At 52 I am too old for jeans,skinny or otherwise, and I think converse look silly on middle aged women too - not least because I had black and white ones as a tween and they were ugly then.

Midnightinmoscow I think both tunics look frumpy. I never thought tunic over leggings actually a good look, despite it being apparently 'on tread' here. They kind of make you look shapeless.

And like Bunbaker, I found the clothes in the Cos link frumpy. Which I think is shapeless clothes. Not bootlegs, not mum boots, not brogues.

marriedinwhite I think it's important to be just happy with what you wear, and not to care about what other people think is frumpy. For example, I'm a middle aged woman who wears converse and skechers. A lot of things I wear got dis here as frumpy, but I don't like a lot of the stuff that's considered on trend here either.

It sounds like what you are wearing is just fine.

ssd, boys can surprise you!

my 9 yr old has started telling things like:

"That handbag isn't really you, or maybe it's o.k. if you wear your brown coat with it"

or

"you look nicer in the silk skirt"

Completely out of the blue!!!

(yes yes, I know what you all think now , time will tell)

Right, mumat39, you actually sound like me! I am an hourglass, rather generous of thigh, bit of Asian heritage, also a winter. So we have a bit in common!

I am now a size 8-10, but pre DCs I was a 16, and can say with some certainty that the best think I ever did was lose that weight. My proportions haven't changed, but are a lot easier to dress. Skinny jeans no longer make my legs look carrot like. You haven't mentioned your dress size, but you don't sound as big as I was. You do sound like you're not a fan of your figure, though, so perhaps a bit of diet and exercise could help?

Are you definitely wearing the right bra. A good one will stop your boobs hiding your waist. Might be worth going to Bravissimo or somewhere and getting sorted out with a new one? I know it's a nightmare, but will likely make a huge difference.

Now, clothes wise, It would probably be a good idea to start off with a capsule wardrobe of a few bits for you to get the hang of a new style. If I wear you I would probably buy:

• a really well fitting pair of jeans. I tend to shop at the premium end of the market as I find the cut better for my figure, but I hahangar fantastic jeans from Uniqlo and I have also heard good things about Levi's curve ID range. It doesn't matter if these are boot cut, straight or skinny, you just need to feel good in them.
• a single breasted, single button blazer. I would buy this in an easy maintenance jersey. Zara are great for these, as are Uniqlo.
• a knee length wrap dress - brilliant for hourglasses, show of boobs and waist, hide arse and thighs.
• A couple of tops in really good colours for you. As a Winter I would suggest cobalt, ruby, emerald or rich purple. Zara do great looser-fit silky tees, which look lovely with indigo denim.
• a pair of comfy heeled ankle boots (not mum boot ) which will elongate your legs
• a really great bag will dress up any outfit
• a scarf, again in one of your best colours.

Probably enough to go on with, but as time goes on you might want to add a lovely tailored wool coat, some v neck jumpers, wide legged, tailored trousers etc.

As for colours, I stick to mine c. 90% of the time. I still maintain I look ok in orange, so I still wear it. I also like gold, so I wear a gold watch. Don't worry about it too much.

I've rambled on for ages now, and probably haven't been at all useful, but you sound so down and stuck in a rut, I wanted to try. Can try and link some stuff for you later if you like? Off to 7th circle of soft play now...

And yy to Jen-An, she rocks the simple look, which is very attainable. The key is quality basics.

Amber thanks for that summary! I just searched the page for a poster called Jen-An

I am size 18/20 with monster boobs, but my diet is going well so I hope to find it easier to defrump in time. Where I live everything is on a hill and I am guilty of sticking trainers on instead of proper shoes (Converse is a casual stylish option IMO) but my old black Reeboks definitely aren't! I am also guilty of Next drawstring bottom tops

I really love doesmybumlook40, I can't bear the words, but the pictures are great and some of it would work for my shape even though it's totally different to hers. The only thing I'd say is it's all so very neutral. This is how I got stuck in the Next drawstring top trap - I want something colourful!

I hardly dare ask is my M&S £18 cardigan frumpy,or a colourful inexpensive basic?! I have millions... I do wear them with colours that look nice...

Cos frumpy The cut on their clothes is equalled no where else. I have yet to see any creative sharp cutting like that on the high street.

Some of it may be a bit Geek chic, but understated and clever veryclever. Having spent 5 years as a pattern cutter I havn't seen anything else like that anywhere. Too different to be frumpy surely

I asked my uber-fashionable and stylish friend to help me find a top to suit my budget rather than hers (she's more Bond Street ) and she frog marched me into the Cos concession part of Selfridges - and found me a perfect top!

orange

Some examples from the first page I got from Cos.

Long jersey skirt - I'm sure upthread, many agreed long skirts look frumpy. I also think myself looks a lot better with short skirts. I'm quite short and I don't wear heals, long skirts tend to swamp me.

long shirt - is this not just a variation of the water fall cardigan, but buttoned up? How do you wear this without being frumpy? If you are using a belt, then why can't you belt up a waterfall cardigan?

linen top Is this really a good look? Other than the pricetag, is it that much different from a jersey track bottom with a tent top?

And this

jersey dress maybe it looks better on a real person than the straight up and down look on this page.

Oh yes,the skirt is nasty but the shirt i quite like. I don't see how it is frumpy. It look clean and understated to me.

Some bits probably are dodgy, but the bits with the clever cutting aren't. Just beacuse it's loose fitting doesn't mean it has to be frumpy

Agree the jersey dress is awful, but it's not all like that.

The problem with Cos clothes is that they look fine from the front laid out flat or on a very thin model.

I find they look often look awful from the sides and back when I try them on. And they're often made of papery material so they bunch up weirdly if you wear a belt with them in attempt to make them less shapeless.

There are, of course, exceptions.