So I've realised that I don't know what "frumpy" looks like...

[Blackden]

and therefore there's a very good chance that I am extremely frumpy.
I read the Boden thread with interest.

Can you please describe frumpy? Does it mean baggy and shapeless clothes? At my age I can't be wearing those 'BodyCon' type dresses (not got the figure for them either )
Or can you link me to some frumpy stuff because I just can't visualise it.

And, what's a 'wrong side of 45' woman to do? How can I avoid looking like mutton but not look frumpy?

As an apple maybe this is a case of the grass is greener on the other side then!

Yes I think the grass is always greener.

Well maybe not if you're a tall, slim, perfect hourglass shape with long elegant legs...but we can't all have that unfortunately!

Thia is all very interesting. I think definitions of frumpiness depend on one's age. I'm early fifties and I don't think those Clark's mum boots are frumpy. I saw them come in and go out, iyswim. I've never had them but they seem to belong to a kind of careful, just-so, almost prissy kind of woman. Not frumpy though.

My definition of frumpy is the stuff you see women in their sixties and seventies wearing - fleeces and elasticated waist trousers, or floral calf-length skirts that don't match the round-necked top worn with them. All teamed with comfortable sandals.

Not ALL women in their sixties and seventies, of course. Some are v stylish!

OBface, since you seem to want to bicker about it can I point out that I mentioned two alternatives - Boden/White Stuff/Fly and also the Cos thing, which you actually admitted did apply to you?

I am happy to suggest further approved MN un-frumping alternatives to which, in the interest of not looking like a try-hard clone, I also find the Clark's boots preferable. E.g Skinnies, drapey T shirt, blazer, ballet flats, sunnies and massive scarf

This thread is making me want, in direct contravention of my first post, go out and buy something from Next - probably a patterned drawstring top - just in rebellion! I've realised that mostly, what I mean by frumpy is much the same as what I think of as naff. What others seem to see as frumpy I often think of as classic, or age-appropriate or comfy/practical. To me there's a big difference, for instance, between a middle aged lady in nasty polyester knee length skirt, vividly coloured comfy shoes with horrid stick on flowers and a pastel coloured anorak, and another middle aged lady in, say a well cut pair of bootleg jeans/cords, mum-boots, classic shirt, jumper and nice coat.

Oh dear Reluctanttownie I was trying to be lighthearted and certainly do not want to bicker. In defence of the clarkes boots you have been critical of the clothing choices of many many people! When my Acne pistols were deemed mum boots by someone on this site I didn't give a toss. Because I like them and to be honest they clearly didn't have a clue

I don't have a uniform of skinny jeans, blazer, scarf etc (loving patterned pyjama style trousers at the moment, entirely different from my skinnies) but if I did so what? It's not as if the alternative you are suggesting is radically individual in style, just a bit dated and a clone of another sort.

If someone criticises my fashion choices I really don't care. I'm confident in what I wear. And as I said before, each to their own!

Frumpy IMO is wearing something that is just non descipt and does nothing to enhance anything you've got.

eg. larger ladies often wear calf or ankle length skirts to " disguise" their shape when in fact they just look square.

My own version of what is frumpy is:

Above- calf length and longer skirts ( not maxi) , especially full and floaty types in polyester and/or floral patterns.

Fleeces worn anywhere except on a country walk, or watching sports matches at a pinch.

Too short trousers which reveal ankles-( unless they are supposed to be sropped) and white socks is the worst conbination.

Polyester "smart" trousers and low heeled court shoes.

Wearing anything which highlights your figure faults- eg if you have bingo wings, get a top with sleeves.

Anything that someone 80+ wears if you aren't 80+. ( which is mainly Per Una judging by my mother's friends- who are 80+.)

There is a particular kind of jacket that makes me sad. It is usually cream or beige, has velcro flappy tapes on the wrists, a sort of extra bit on the back, on the shoulders, like another layer (what is that bit?) and is very square and unfitted. A little bit of me cries when someone stumps past in one of those, rather hunched, with a Tesco bag in one hand. I imagine them going home to eat value cup a soup and look at pictures of their children and grandchildren in Australia who don't phone [sob].

I think this sadness comes from the fact that the noble jacket is potentially one of the most dashing garments of all. To throw away all that potential - it could only be done by someone who has accustomed themselves to accepting the dregs of life.

Have never seen that sort of jacket.

But I have seen the "look" favoured by many women aged 40-95: mid calf droopy skirt, in floral pattern, and a top- usually a T shirt in a colour that almost matches a colour in the skirt.

And the younger version of this is the bootleg denim jean with a " safe" black ankle boot, usually with a small 1-2 inch heel. Often topped with a fleece.

And a neat black shoulder bag.

The same people who wear theso often ask on Mn "Can I wear skinny jeans at 40?" or "Can I have long hair at 35?"

FFS.

I think people need to embrace their inner mutton.

God - we're all looking a lot better in our 40's and 50's than previous generations so we should show it off.

But I don't buy into certain things like bootcuts being frumpy - so depends on the cut/length and how you wear them.

God - we're all looking a lot better in our 40's and 50's than previous generations so we should show it off.

Disagree- my Mum and a couple of her friends looked stunning in their 40 and 50s- lovely fitted dresses, high heels, and groomed.

Amelia, you must have seen the jacket. Can't find a link as I have no idea what they are called. They are everywhere when it's raining, worn with american tan tights and funny round toed shoes and strangely deep feet. I can't decide which are worse: the ones that I have in my head, which are straight up and down and boxy, or the slightly longer ones which have an internal drawstring at the waist.

Amelia I have a 50's style skirt on today, floaty, floral and just below the knee, and a smart silk t shirt in a colour which almost matches the skirt and a pair of flip flops. I'm 5ft 8in, size 8-10 and have an hour glass shape and I think I'm looking good, dressing for my shape - not dowdy or frumpy....it's all in the way you wear and accessorize things.

The mum boots look especially hideous because they are often worn with too short boot cuts which are baggy around the arse, thigh and knee and flap around the ankle. If the boot cuts were longer and more fitted they'd look a bit more Kate moss and less mumsy.

majorie I agree with you about the clarks boots belonging to someone who is quite prissy, someone who would describe their style or lack of it as neat.

I sympathise with those who woman who have drifted into frumpiness after having a baby, I did that too and it felt so good to leave frumpy behind get myself back.

Luvly - I really think your mum and her friends were in the minority.n We have such easy access to good fashionable clothes now that previous generations just didn't have.

Also easier to keep looking younger now with botox etc if that's your thing.

Agree with MrsCampbellBlack that it is ALL in how you wear an item. Bootcut and wide leg can look great if styled in the right way. This skirt for example from Whistles could very well be deemed as frumpy if teamed with the wrong tee/shoes/accessories.

Boot cut and wide leg 'jeans' that should be...

vessie I know which jacket you mean.... its

on of these

Or.. longer version with internal drawstring

I used to get paid to design things like that . They used to sell and sell and sell.

Would you like to shoot me now or later?

Now

That' what I call frumpy but couldn't find the words or the vision to sum it up, up thread.

Has anyone got the new Boden catalogue? I like Boden but have they made this one so dark to be trendy or to hide the clothes . To me, some of them even look like they could be nice if I could see them properly.

Oh, I thought it looked like a vast improvement on the old style (less ditsy prints and flippy skirts and grating comments about the "models"), more magaziney, but I only skimmed through it very briefly before binning it

thenightsky I actually felt a little thrill of terror clicking on those links to see if they resembled anything in my wardrobe .

Thank fuck,they don't!!!

Okay so I'm wearing a floral calf length skirt, white plimsolls and plain Tshirt. I'm forty and I have read above that this is Official Frump Uniform. But it was what I really wanted to wear so hey, what the hell.

So DH looks at me and says 'Wow you look beautiful today' and an attractive young man (early thirties or so - I call them 'young men' these days ) started chatting me up when I was buying my coffee. I thought he was just being nice until he asked if I was married and I twigged and said 'Yes, very much so.' and he said 'Oh. Well you're gorgeous.' and off he went.

The outfit I'm wearing would look dreadful on a shorter plumper woman - esp if she was an apple shape. You need a small waist to wear this outfit I think. Plus you really need tanned bare legs to carry off white plimsolls and you need to be reasonably sporty - people wearing any item of sportswear who don't look like they ever play sport is a problem.

I look frumpy in skirts that are above the knee and anything that isn't fitted at the waist as I have thick muscular legs and am slim but very curvy. A badly fitted bra is also guaranteed to make me look frumpy whatever I wear.

Agree totally with vessie and thenightsky about those jackets though. I know the exact ones. They are so very sad.

I suppose the trouble with just saying a 'floral calf length skirt' could encompass lots of skirts from this to something more modern like this.