So I've realised that I don't know what "frumpy" looks like...

[Blackden]

and therefore there's a very good chance that I am extremely frumpy.
I read the Boden thread with interest.

Can you please describe frumpy? Does it mean baggy and shapeless clothes? At my age I can't be wearing those 'BodyCon' type dresses (not got the figure for them either )
Or can you link me to some frumpy stuff because I just can't visualise it.

And, what's a 'wrong side of 45' woman to do? How can I avoid looking like mutton but not look frumpy?

Frumpy is young women and I think 40s-50s fits that category and younger dressing unintentionally like miss marple, Its not about just the clothes its about grooming, hair done, a touch of lipstick. Its the small things that can have a huge impact. I love fitflops my husband thinks they are frumpy. Crocs he hates with a passion. But when you painted your nails even he concedes they look ok but he will never budge on crocs. So maybe frumpy is what you feel about yourself and we all have days like that. I have met ladies walking their dogs in gear you could say looks frumpy, but when they have groomed themselves ie lipstick etc you dont always notice their gear and before anyone says it no they dont all wear hunters.

Writing off Next completely has saved me from frumpiness and also saved me a fortune because the quality is so poor things were always binned / charity shopped within months.

I'll risk missing out on the odd good item.

H&M does a great range for size 18 plus btw - much more stylish than bigger sizes elsewhere.

I kind of agree with amber nectarine that this thread seems to have made a lot of people unhappy and paranoid.

I personally don't think you can class any shop e.g. Next or a style of clothing e.g. Bootcuts as frumpy. Like all shops, there are good and bad things in them although the trouble with next and per una is that they haven't really changed their style for years and so look dates and therefore perceived as frumpy.

The cut of clothing is what makes it frumpy or not. Those old fashioned bootcuts, the sort that are around your waist, too short and stone wash could look frumpy but modern bootcuts with a decent waistline and colour that fit well are most definately not frumpy.

I don't believe either that using your figure is an excuse for looking frumpy. Some of the largest people I know are the most stylish. It's just about making the most of yourself. Models will always look good as it's thier job to make clothes look good and in photos clothes will be sewn or pinned so that they fit perfectly.

So c'mon ladies, let's not set so many rules about where you can and can't shop and what you can and cannot wear. But as I said before if you feel frumpy then you will give off those vibes and come across as frumpy in which case you probably do need to update your style to give you some self confidence.

I'm afraid some people are really going to cringe in (x) years' time when they see the photos of themselves in skinny jeans. I know why they are wearing them, and why they feel sort of obligatory, but with hindsight it will be more obvious that they really don't suit everyone. For this reason I have pretty much abandoned wearing jeans. For now (optimistic).

There is someone at work with the most magnificent lean willowy figure and she was wearing dark blue boot-cuts the other day. They looked magnificent: flowing, elegant and sexy, like an illustration from a very chic 70s designer's notepad. But I'm afraid people who wear bootcuts because skinnies don't suit them don't usually look like that. That is not a dig. I am one of the people who, to put it extremely politely, has to be very very careful.

But then if you like your bootcuts and they suit you, who cares what anyone else thinks?

FunnyLittleFrog, how about

My wardrobe is mostly from Topshop and H&M. I'm on the wrong side of 35, but am the same size as I was at university. I can easily fit into size 8 trousers in topshop. According to that thing on the BBC about which country you are from, I have a BMI of 19.

But I also have mum boots and converses. My first criteria for shoes and clothes are comfort. I still have clothes from 10 or more years ago, because I can still fit into them. For example, I just threw away some Levis 501 from university days because they are starting to look a bit old. I just can't bring myself to throw away perfectly fine clothes just because it's 'out'.

I guess I'm proud to be frumpy.

Queen, I've felt like this for a long time. It's nothing to do with this thread. This thread is good for me as I get to see what others think. I have never been keen on next but I was desperate for some tops for the warmer weather and it was all I could find.

I would love to update my style but really have no clue where to start.

Aah mumat39, you just need to find your groove...there are rooms full of skinny jeans and scarves. Wear what you like. I always have mbts on, so comfy, so what! Skinny jeans look awful on me, I can stand knees together and feet miles apart...not attractive as such.

Today its mbts, some jeans that are lightweight summer flarey ones, have a stretch animal print dress on and a little red cardigan. It's neither stylish, cool or anything much but it takes seconds to put on and shows no dog hairs, needs no ironing and makes me feel cheerful.

Make up I do like, base, cheeks, mascara, brow pencil, lip gloss takes literally minutes and no skill. I only use sheer colours and textures I can use fingers with. Makes me look a bit more alive.

I think ease matters. Hair has to be esdy, mine dries naturally then gets some anti Cruz wax stuff and hey presto looks styled.

I think it's a bit depressing to try to look like stylish women who have different bodies ot

mumat39 big hug for you, I bet you are a fantastic person and a wonderful mum, these are the things that really matter. I hate shopping too, am 38 and have had three DC's so a bit saggy up top and lumpy in the wrong places waist down. It is difficult to find things which fit nicely, I am quite short and small but nothing fits! Petite ranges are too small and ordinary clothes hang funny on me, waist in wrong place, jeans too long or just not fitting well. I try to aim for one nice part of my outfit and make do with the rest or have a pretty accessory- or shoes if you can find some you like,bag,scarf, jewellery, hair thing. I also used to dislike my hair so I spent time finding a hairdresser I trust and now I love my hair for the first time ever. Starting with that can often make you feel so much better, then deal with the clothes.I had to sort out my skin too, after having the babies it is blotchy and I have serious pigmentation that I can't hide, but I found good makeup, I wear less of it and feel lucky to be healthy and my confidence is slowly returning. Have you got a good friend who could go shopping with you? Just take one thing at a time. I know this probably won't help but my mum always tells me we look in the mirror and think 'god what do I look like' when the reality is probably not as bad as we think.

And Queen btw, I don't actually feel frumpy. I find the attitube to clothes on this thread a bit fashion police too. The entire no bootlegs, no patterned tops, no waterfall cardigans, no mum boots, no x, no y, no z.

Oops posted by accident!

You get the jist!

Get online, look at other people, try on stuff you think won't suit you. Dresses I find make you look more together but I spent years thinking them unflattering...

Shopping with a friend whilst a bit drunk always has fun results:)

mumat39 have you looked at Sali Hughes videos on the Guardian? If you look at the archives, there are many where she explains the basic on makeup and skincare. It's much easier than many think.

mumat39 Let's get drunk and go shopping heh heh heh

Before I felt confident enough to wear skinny jeans and when I was a couple of sizes larger I found that straight legs were a great compromise. Boden so some that are good.

I put on an old pair of bootlegs the other day and thought I'd do a 70's thing with them paired with wedges etc - took one look at myself and decided that they had to go. It was such a great look in my minds eye but on a mid 40's woman it just looked wrong.

Pinterest is your friend for inspiration.

OneLittleBabyTerror - I understand your point and there are exceptions to the rule but if you're not confident with clothes then it's best to steer clear of the 'difficult' items.

mumat39 a few questions for you:

Is there anything you own that you really enjoy wearing? If so, what?

What shape/size are you?

Are there any celebrities whose style you admire?

When you had your colours analysed, do you think they were correct I.e. do the colours suit you (leaving aside the make up)?

I'm sure we can definitely help you to start feeling better about yourself.

mumat39, don't be so down on yourself. I am sure you will get lots of tips and encouragement from people much more stylish than me, but I just want to say that if you don't like trousers (including jeans) and don't think they work for you, it is completely fine to decide never to wear them, ever again. There is nothing you can't do in a skirt, if that is how you feel comfortable and look good. You said you have slim ankles, it may be that you should be showing them off. (This is in no way an instruction, it is completely up to you)

It is a pity you had such bad experiences from those awful personal shoppers. I agree with the poster who said you should try things on at home, and I would add that you should maybe try shapes and colours you would not have thought of in a million years. You can always send things back.
Before I went back to work after dd1 I lost a lot of weight and realised that after a long time in which pregnancy, heaviness, exhaustion and breastfeeding had dicated what I should wear, I had no idea what I had, what I needed, or what suited me. dd1 did 2 short settling in days at the CM before I went back and I spent the whole of them looking at clothes and me in them - pulling things out from forgotten boxes, pressing things, sorting out accessories, turning around and looking at my arse in the mirror. For the first few weeks I was back, I got a compliment every day, because I had had the time to put something together and think about what went with what. Sadly I am not complimented much these days, but I just wanted to say that if you psych yourself into loving yourself a bit and daring to spend the time looking at yourself and deciding what you need and want, people will notice and you will look fab.

Frumpy I think is just not getting it.

Mum at the school wears stripy dresses, which are OK a bit shapeless and with flip flops OK, but then she pulls over a baggy shapeless cardi that doesn't match, and then when it's cold wears the same dress with black tights and boots? and the same shapless cardi.

Neither the colours, styles or fit works? strip it all back and I'm pretty sure there is an outfit in there somewhere? but this dress in numerous colours has been doing the rounds for months now!!

I agree with QueenCadbury it's just a rut look and you can see some people try to add new items and others just stick with what works for them.

well I own most things on all the above frumpy list!!

BUT my question is how does someone me who has lost their sense of style/confidence/sexiness/mojo ever get it back?

I am 3 stones overweight and I don't have the money to spend (earn min wage) on something I might never wear

I don't want to buy from ebay.I can't afford mistakes

and please don't mention personnel shoppers, I cant afford debenhams/john lewis full prices...plus the thought of a well dressed woman eyeing me up and down and wrinkling their nose terrifies me!!

would appreciate any links to anything a short, fat , well endowned mammy might wear

thanks everyone. you're all so kind.

Shezzle, i'd love to get drunk and then forget the shopping and just have a giggley day out instead

Amber thanks for the offer of help. I'll try and answer your questions.
Is there anything you own that you really enjoy wearing? If so, what? PJ's although they could also do with an overhaul. I don't really have anything that I like at the moment.

What shape/size are you? I'm an hourglass, so my chest is a 32G, I have a waist but it's kinda lost behind my boobs that have gone saggy since having J cup boobs after dc were born , I also have a c-section pouch, wide hips and huge thighs (26-27 " depending on the tape)

Are there any celebrities whose style you admire? I really really like Jennifer Anniston's style. She seems to be a simple but elegant dresser, I think, and looks lovely in jeans and tshirt. skirts, dresses, whatever really. I also love the long maxi skirt, top look, but have never found a skirt that looks ok, or know which tops to put with it. I really wouldn't be comfortable with tight vest tops as that would be too much on show. Even before having DC when I had a flat-ish midriff area.

When you had your colours analysed, do you think they were correct I.e. do the colours suit you (leaving aside the make up)? If i remember I was a winter. I'm indian, so I guess I know that before she told me. She told me not to wear brown or orange but I think those colours look ok. She also told me that my chin went in one direction and my nose in the other. I hadn't noticed that before at all but I do now

I'm sure we can definitely help you to start feeling better about yourself. Thanks so much. That would be great.

Vezzie, I actually like jeans but I get the feeling that maybe I shouldn't. Having slim ankles and wide calves with veins isn't something I like the look of if I wore mid length skirts.

purple lucky you to have hair like that. Mine has to be dried as otherwise it looks like worzle gummidges and goes frizzy and wavy at the ends and flat at the top. I've never worn make up apart from the odd bit of lippy for special occasions like weddings. I did try once and bought a load of stuff but it just looked wrong. My mum doesn't wear make up so I guess I never learned to love it. My DD has loads of allergies so I really worry about what I put on myself as she is contact allergic and seriously allergic to lots of every day foods some of which are found in products. i haven't used moisturiser for years for that reason

OneLittleBaby, thanks for the tip. I'll definitely have a look at that. I often meet other indian girls and women who do wear makeup but I don't think I've ever met one who didn't obviously look made up. I went to a schoo; open morning and got chatting with a lady who from a distance was quite striking. But up close she looked painted. I always worry that that looks worse than no make up. I also worry that if I wear make up and then look how I look without then is that too much of a shock for my DP? I mean he has to wake up next to me.

smelly I think I have two of those dresses hanging up upstairs, which I haven't worn yet as they don't look right with Fitflops. I kept them after a mammoth order from DP as I thought they'd do. I'd be like that mum at school and get layering completely wrong, although in this weather it would be a good thing to learn.

ssd i love the way you put your question about what to wear so succinctly. I always end up writing a mini novel.

Like I have now

A close friend told me I was frumpy these days - it was almost two years ago but thinking about it still hurts. I looked at this thread yesterday and today I'm binning half my wardrobe - I used to be a very stylish skinny mini but in my thirties (I'm now 36) I've lost my way and my waistline! Like so many others I've just gone for function over form. All my clothes are on my bedroom floor at the moment and there are three piles, charity shop, chuck and keep. The keep pile is tiny.

I think since meeting my husband I've bought more clothes (at charity shops) but not really focused on quality. I've also hoarded good clothes that don't fit - so I'm going to chuck them too - they include a Sonia Rykiel and a DVF dress but now five years on they are outdated. Anyone else guilty of hoarding?

Also I'd like some advice, my husband always comes home really late at night and all he ever sees me in are horrid old tracksuit bottoms and slippers. (Our house is freezing, how do you keep comfy but stylish at home) I've read about loungewear but don't get it. Also I don't want to spend much. DS is 1 and DC2 is due at the end of September.

So good to know I'm not alone.

MrsMarigold, I'm always having clearouts but don't have that much to start with so it's a bit easier but I used to keep things hoping I'd fit in them. I also need advice on what to wear at home. I really would live in my pj's all day if i could but like you they're really just a pair of jogging bottoms, tshirt and an old mens sweatshirt from George at Asda to try and hide the saggy boobs.

MrsMarigold have you looked at loungewear? That's what they call comfy clothes you wear at home. Maybe you'll find something you fancy that looks a bit better than tracksuit bottoms?

mumat39 I usually just wear tinted moisturiser, powder, lipstick and eyeliner. I found it's the foundation that makes me look very caked on. Tinted mosituriser just even out my skin tone a little bit. I also can't do mascara because my eyes water a lot. For lipsticks, I think Sali Hughes has one on very netural colours and also lip balm types for casual days. I love the new lipbalm lip colours (like revlon's lip butter) because my lips tend to be dry and peel off in my old age too.

You don't have to look very heavily made up unless that's what you want to. But I agree all the make up counter women look like they have warpaint and I definitely don't want to look like them.

thanks mumat39

a close friend recently told me I looked fat and frumpy in everything.....like I did'nt know

she had recently lost a lot of weight and found telling me the truth made her feel better orsomethinglikethat

sometimes friends dont help much do they

I am in a house full of boys/sister miles away and never speak/mum v elderly and in care...theres no one to ask about fashion anymore

Shops where I often find things I like
Mint Velvet
Phase Eight
French Connection
Whistles
Some Zara,but do most shopping online and find there online service poor
Occasional plain Boden
Sandwich/Noa Noa and other boutiquey brands
Great Plains
Dorothy Perkins
Occasional TopShop
Some marks,esp Autograph and shoes
Warehouse and Oasis

I never find anything in
Next
H and M
Monsoon
Wallis,except some jewellery sometimes
Debenhams
BHS