So I've realised that I don't know what "frumpy" looks like...

[Blackden]

and therefore there's a very good chance that I am extremely frumpy.
I read the Boden thread with interest.

Can you please describe frumpy? Does it mean baggy and shapeless clothes? At my age I can't be wearing those 'BodyCon' type dresses (not got the figure for them either )
Or can you link me to some frumpy stuff because I just can't visualise it.

And, what's a 'wrong side of 45' woman to do? How can I avoid looking like mutton but not look frumpy?

I think the less you look like a model, the harder it is to not look frumpy.

In my "heyday" when I was a 6ft, size 10 young un, I would wear mean's jeans and a white combo and go out clubbing like that.

Now I am size 14, past 40, and I just have to try a bit (a lot) harder. Sadly.

I have areas of no compromise, like footwear, in that I live in the country and am 6ft, so forget about heels. that would just look silly on me! (too many friends living in ancient cottages where I can't even stand up anyway). I seem to wear these www.gaborshoes.co.uk/womens-c1/shoes-c2/gabor-glitz-bow-trim-ladies-ballet-pumps-p8915 most days in summer (I know I know, but I reckon they are better than most sensible shoes).

And biker boots or suede knee highs in winter.

As an over 40 pear shape, jeans now don't suit me, really. I often wear dresses (love White company ones as they don't have garish patterns, but good neutrals)or (mini) skirts with opaque tights and boots.

Not trendy. But not frumpy either.

If I wear jeans, I now wear DP skinnies (about £15 each) which are cut surprisingly well (narrow at waist, wide at hips and thighs, then fitted in the leg, and long enough for a 6ft-er! www.dorothyperkins.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?beginIndex=0&viewAllFlag=&catalogId=33053&storeId=12552&productId=4608955&langId=-1&categoryId=&searchTerm=skinny&pageSize=20. or www.dorothyperkins.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?beginIndex=0&viewAllFlag=&catalogId=33053&storeId=12552&productId=5432128&langId=-1&categoryId=&searchTerm=skinny&pageSize=20 . I bought 3 pairs! I do feel very dated in bootcuts, it has been skinnies for about 7 or 8 years now, hasn't it?

I don't think I am the height of fashion (anything but) in my DP jeans and Gabor shoes, but I hope I am just the right side of frumpy! (wear them with red belted mac or brown leather jacket).

There's nothing wrong with bootcuts except that some people who used to wear them have decided they are 'frumpy' and have blogged about it. I've seen far more people looking awful in skinnies than in bootcuts...

I have a feeling we are revisiting the mum boots thread from winter - which had a really positive effect on the way I dress. I had stopped being as careful about my appearance - school run everyday and hanging out around home doesn't give you much to dress up for but not caring about my appearance made me feel frumpy, dressed in a very plain way - i was never a mum boots type of woman but i was in danger of sliding down the slope and I decided after the mum boots post that I would change a bit at a time. I'm loving the new-old me, I feel more confident and definitely do not feel frumpy anymore.

"There's nothing wrong with bootcuts except that some people who used to wear them have decided they are 'frumpy' and have blogged about it. I've seen far more people looking awful in skinnies than in bootcuts..."

I agree. If they were totally out of fashion why are the shops still full of them? I dress to suit my shape, not to slavishly follow fashion. I would look like mutton dressed as lamb if I did anyway - I'm 53 not 23.

I've read all through this thread and I'm none the wiser.
I have no idea what boot cut jeans are . I only ever wear comfortable shoes as heels are the work of the devil.
I don't care what other people wear and find fashion magazines utterly ridiculous.

As long as you like what you see in the mirror who gives a stuff what anyone else thinks? Does it really matter if mumsnet think X or Y is not stylish or on trend?

It makes clothes wearing much less stressful if you just don't give a damn.

Back to the colour thing - I see that super stylist has left the building - Blackden don't cancel your appointment. Colour analysis is only the first step to getting your head around a look which is right for you. If you don't wear make up, you'll find that pert of the session a scary revelation. Getting clothing right, so you look good for you, is about proportion and fit and the right style and detailing. A stylist will never advise you to wear something you don't like, but will give you the information to understand what you'd look best wearing. You have to find the stuff in the shops, of course, and you will make some mistakes, but you'll make fewer over time and end up owning clothes that you wear. Frumpy isn't an issue. If you are wearing the right styles for you, with skirts/cardis/jackets etc etc ending at the right point on your body, you will be much happier with your look.

Oh Blackden, I didn't mean your thread looking for help is a bad thing at all, just that the long lists of things people define as frumpy could, and it appears have, made people who were previously happy with their self-image worry that they are being judged on their clothing. As I said in my post, the S&B boards are a great place to come for advice, I jut don't really like the thread that say 'bootcut jeans are shit, and of you wear them you must be a haggard, past-it old frump'.

"I just don't really like the thread that say 'bootcut jeans are shit, and of you wear them you must be a haggard, past-it old frump'."

I know what you mean. It comes across as a bit "Fashion Police" to me. I really don't understand why people sneer at bootcut jeans, linen trousers or flat shoes. I don't tend to notice the cut of people's jeans unless they look wrong on that person, and in most cases it is skinny jeans that looks wrong more than any other style.

Have been thinking... doesn't frumpy just mean 'dated'/'old-fashioned'?

non-frumpy bootcuts
non-frumpy 'waterfall' cardigan
Okay, gone for the quick search option here, so £££ but just trying to make a point.

Seems there are as many definitions of frumpy as there are anything else.

I'm still sticking to my guns (although I do agree with you blackswan about the summer work wear thing), and saying that grooming is paramount.

is it frumpy - or could you just call it retro?!

I have always felt and been frumpy as I've never liked how I look. I'm an hourglass but have really big thighs and find the usual tips about defining my waist too uncomfortable. I'm conscious of my boobs and waist down really. I can't wear skinny jeans. If I find a pair I can get into they look just awful. The whole thing about skinny jeans suit everyone, just isn't true for me. I also really struggle with buying clothes and I HATE shopping for clothes for me. I'm fine shopping for my DC. My mum isn't really into shopping and although growing up, I hated her slightly disheveled look, that's exactly what I have now.

I recently gave up looking for the perfect top and bought 4 from next that I now live in. For me, the quality is the biggest disappointment. The material is already starting to come away at the seams, the sizes, all 14T are different even though I bought different colours in the same styles. They'll do, just as the rest of my very limited wardrobe does.

I don't wear make up as I've never figured out how to do it. People used to ask me if I wear mascara which I don't. I'm going grey more quickly than I'd like, but I don't want to colour my hair as I don't like the idea of the chemicals. I used to years ago but I was horrified by how grey my regrowth was that I figure I'd rather go grey knowing about it if that makes sense.

I have done a personal shopping thing at selfridges, and john lewis and in both cases I came away with stuff as I felt I should buy something and then returned it all. I also tried a different sort of personal shopper and we hit the shops together. That was also a disaster and I came away with something that I haven't worn since.

I had my colours done a long time ago, but the lady I went to seemed to think that I should be dressing in a uniform like margaret thatcher. when I arrived at her house she was dressed in orange tweed and a yellow short and gold accessories. I thought she looked awful. When she did my makeup. all the lipsticks, no matter what colour they were looked pink on me. She did my make up and when I got home I thought I looked like a clown. There wasn't any thought for what actually might work for me. It was as if that session was geared to creating their image of what a 'woman' should look like and not about how 'I' should look.

If Next is frumpy then what other shops are a good bet for people like me who don't have a clue and also don't like trudging around shops not finding anything. I like to internet shop and have found myself buying things based on customer reviews, so if people say they love something I'll try it. I have no confidence in my own choices so the reviews kind of help with that. But most things always go back.

The last time I went shopping, was with my DC about 6 months ago. I was browsing in the DP section of BHS and asking my 4.5 year old DD what she thought of this and that. I didn't know if I liked anything so picked up a few 'they'll do' items, when another shopper, a woman, stopped to tell me that the stuff I'd selected was awful and how surprised she was that so many people don't even know their colours. She then went on her merry way. I felt like sh*t and can't face shopping since then.

I probably shouldn't wear jeans but cant find skirts that fit well. I have quite big calves and slim ankles and have always had veins. After my DC I have those patches of veins that look like I have bruises. My BIL once asked in a worried tone what I had done, and when I told him nothing, his faced actually made a eeeeuuughhh! face.

I damaged the arch of my foot doing exercise classes years ago and can only wear MBT's which I've lived in since 2006. I have never been able to wear heels as my feet have always felt like the bones in my feet rub together. And I can't wear completely flat shoes as they hurt the arch of my foot.

So what does someone like me do. I am influenced by the fact that next has been called frumpy but as I have nothing else to where I will have to wear the tops I've got until they fall apart which won't be very long. I usually wear things until they are so bad that they wouldn't be any good to a charity shop.

So I think I am beyond help. I think I will always be frumpy and not happy about it really. I think my main problem is that I'm more a susannah but would much rather be a trinny and that isn't going to happen any time soon. What should I do as I am frumpy and hate being that way?

Many thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

wear. not where. sorry for any other typos.

To avoid looking frumpy I think you need to learn to avoid certain shops / brands:

Next
M&S
Boden
Monsoon
East
Most of the stuff in Debenhams

And instead, look in:

H&M (my fave - love the new autumn range)
Gap
Warehouse / Oasis
Zara
French Connection

And Whistles, LK Bennet etc if you have the budget (or you have time to ebay).

I do agree that shops like Topshop, Miss Selfridge and River Island are probably best avoided after 30/35ish (depending on how thin you are) but the ones above have stuff that works at any age.

I also agree with posters who have commented on getting the right bra. My god, the difference it made to me when I swapped from 36C to 30

"The whole thing about skinny jeans suit everyone, just isn't true for me."

It isn't true for a large number of people who wear them. Your post made me feel sad mumat39. It sounds like the woman who did your colours was horrible. I had mine done about 25 years ago, along with three other women at the same time. It was brilliant because the feedback from the others was really constructive and useful.

When I want some new clothes I tend to window shop on stores websites and then visit the store to look at the clothes and try them on. I don't have a standard shape and sizing is so hit and miss these days that I never buy clothes online or without trying them on first.

It sounds like you need someone more sympathtic to advise you and to take your current lifestyle into account. The trouble with store personal shoppers is that you do feel obliged to buy something.

One of the other mums at school always looks frumpy and the other day she was wearing some Victoria Beckham jeans and they even looked frumpy teamed with a blouse and some horrible jesus creeper sandles!
I think she thinks she looks nice but she looks too mumsy.

mumof39, why don't you try ordering things online, then trying them on once your dc have gone to bed, or are out - when you have time and aren't stressed? and perhaps try fitflops, which are along the same lines, but not quite as obvious as MBTs. In fact they have just done some ballet flats (except they aren't dead flat). Everything you order online can be returned, usually for free.

Oh dear, I've just bought two pairs of boot cut jeans from m and s, and was actually thinking some of those boots people linked to looked quite nice. I am only just over 30 and am horrified to find out I am already frumpy! So how do I change my style - are there any personal shopper experiences people would recommend?
And how about some examples of non-frumpy, modest heel shoes or boots that one can actually walk in all day?

I am officially a frump then because I do look in most of the first list

I don't like H & M or Zara. I never see anything I like in there and the clothes in H & M are arranged so chaotically that I can't be bothered to rummage. Also, I'm winter and most of the colours they do tend to be spring/autumn whenever I look. I'm not keen on the ranges in Warehouse or Oasis either.

But Frumpylittlefrog, all those shops you have identified as non-frumpy have a target market as 30 years olds maximum.

Where are older peole supposed to shop, I hate H and M, eveything is too small, too cluttered and the fabrics are tacky crap. Top shop is too young for me. Warehouse is better, buta lot is not really wearable for older people. All of them have crap quality

Which leaves us older people with the delightful choice of M and S, Next or Debs. But I think Next looks trashy rather than frumpy. It does seem that just by being older you are in danger of being frumpy because there is no where to actually buy nice clothes for older age group

I agree with FunnyLittleFrog whilst I may have the odd thing from M&S and Boden I tend to stick to plain classics and of course undies. The high street shops like H&M (I too adore) need to be rumaged through a bit there will be some items that are too young or too cheap looking, but certainly not all. I bought these this week a bargain at £9.99 fit like a glove (high waist to hide muffin top) and will be worn all year around, perhaps rolled up in better weather must buy more. I also like Mango although I've lost some weight thanks to BIWI's thread and when I was a size 16 I couldn't fit into anything so it's a 'new' brand to me. To wear with the trousers I bought this and wear them with a pair of Pistol rip off boots from New Look. In effect it's a pair of trousers, jumper and boots all comfortable, inexpensive but with a great scarf or long pendant looks a bit more stylish than jeans, fleece and mum boots.

I'm in my mid 40's and I don't feel ready to give in to frumpiness it would make me feel very down.

My default every day outfits at the moment:

• a dress (a fitted shape with a waist, not a baggy tunic) with leggings or tights, boots and a denim jacket.

• skinny / slim jeans with converse or boots, a plain top, usually from H&M, a blazer and a scarf.

• a shortish skirt (denim or cord) over thick tights, boots, a vest with a loose knit jumper over the top. Probably a scarf too.

I think these looks work for most people. Not particularly stylish but modern and not frumpy.

A big scarf makes a difference I think. And a decent bag - TK Maxx for bargains!

I don't think you can write off whole shops as certain pieces (look at me-pieces) from each can be ok.

I do like H&M for the basics like longline vest tops and other bits. But I agree that it can get a bit jumble sale. Monsoon has some nice tops that I mix with skinny jeans and I do love the ballet pumps and bags too.

I have gone off Next myself as everyone seems to be head to toe in it at the moment. But I have a fab winter coat from there that will do me another couple of years, so the quality isn't that bad.

I think most of us have our off days and feel frumpy, fat and old. I know I do, especially when I'm due on. Such is life.

I am well into my 30s and wear stuff from H&M and the rest all the time. I think if you are selective, like NotMostPeople says, there are lots of things for the 'older' (haha) customer.

The trousers linked to are great - there is no reason why someone in the 40s or over couldn't wear them.

faustina, I should have said that I do have fitflops and have had those for about 4 years so in the summer (what's one of those again ) I do wear those.

Bunbaker, I feel sad about it too and I think it is affected by my low self esteem but also makes me feel worse so affects my confidence. so it feels like I'm stuck in this ever decreasing circle and I don't know how to stop it, if that makes sense. I also agree about the H&M and Zara stuff. H&M tops are often too clingy or too billowy on me, and I have never found anything in Zara that fits me. Also, I really don't enjoy shopping and think of those shops as selling on trend stuff that dates too quickly. Good if you just want something simple for this season, but not when you actually need a whole new wardrobe. if that makes sense.

Orange, I'm 43 and am really confused about where I should shop too. I've always gone to DP in the past but the last couple of years have really struggled with them too. :(

Cos. is perfect in my eyes.

Fantastic cuts which I think are what make all the difference, very clever stuff. Ihave accidentally linked to coats and jackets but this shop is my fave. I am eagerly awaiting Autumn/winter. I don't care if it is frumpy or not, it is different and it's good quality which the likes of H amd M will never be