Wise and Avid Gals this way please. Just don't call us WAGS.

[PlumSykes]

new thread

Tuddenham Mill supposed to be awesome - although I haven't been personally.

Been to the both The Elms and the Ickworth (Luxury Family Hotels group) and both nice - but the Elms nicer IMHO. Both have spa facilities plus nice walks/fires etc. Not posey - childcare inc as part of the price and v god quality. Obviously, she doesn't have to use if she doesnt want to.

Also Bowood House, Wiltshire. Golf course, spa, huge gardens with adventure playground etc and spa pool lets kids in at certain times. Whilst not small and cosy, it isn't enormous and not posey.

Calcot Manor perfect.

Brilliant for small children and lovely spa too.

I also really like www.chewtonglen.com

Plum - Lucknam Park is beautiful, spa is spectacular and quite new. Gorgeous grounds. Great service. I would avoid the boring ground floor rooms they tend to stick families in though. Need a sitter to dine in the fine dining restaurant in the evenings, but they have a more modern restaurant suitable for families. Lovely stay.

Just had a rummage in the depth of a cupboard and emerged with a fitted leopard print shirt that I bought in Miss Selfridge....in 1995! Result. Am now wearing it.

Does make me reflect on the ridiculous vanity sizing now going on though. The 12 fits me like a glove, but any 12 on top now is faaaaar to big for me - everywhere has moved down by at least a size.

Leopard print shirt - wear to work or not? Apart from the print it isn't see through or particularly low-cut. Am just not sure.

NY Don't see why not with a well cut pair of trousers or a skirt?

Vanity sizing is something else! Add at least one size to sizes today. But the nation is getting larger.

Ladies, views please! Our au pair, who is nice and outgoing and good with the kids (though a bit of a blardy mess around the house tbh) tends to sleep really late at w'ends. She's started making friends and last night went out until 4ish (I didn't see her when she came in). It's now 8.30 here and she hasn't been out of her room all day as far as I know. I have been out to the supermarket and to walk the dog, but I'm sure it would have been before she would have got up anyway. I went and yelled through the door a couple of hours ago and she said she was fine but just really tired having been out late so was sleeping in . What d'you think? Must be something chemical involved, no? How do you need to sleep from 4am to 8.30pm without a pee, a drink, whatever?? How to broach? Noting also that this is in character, I've several times gone in the afternoon to knock and see whether everything's OK as she's not been seen, and this sometimes when she's been apparently asleep, lights out, since 9pm the night before. I find it v.weird, not sure what to do and say.

Thank you all so much for your fab hotel ideas.

I also suggested The Victoria at Holkham in Norfolk, and two here in Wales; The Grove at Narbeth, and Llys Meddyg at Newport Pembs.

yummy, Is it stretch-sateen, or ultra sheer chiffon? No? Then worn to work would be great-with a high-waisted pencil skirt and opaques, or wide leg trews and flats perhaps?

Marsha, before I had the children I was a fashion and beauty journo, working for a few diff. magazines during my career. Now, I'm a hack-for-hire, so will write about fashion/beauty/travel/homes/parenting/relationships/any old thing that pays the bills. When baby DS is a bit older, will try and get self a bit more organised and get some regular work, a column perhaps.

Sorry for self-centred post. I don't see anything wrong with leopard for work esp if with black skirt and jacket or something. And Calcot Manor looks lovely - do you have to book 2 years in advance for a weekend, like Babington?

Roma, does this behaviour mean that she's not doing duties around house/with DC that she should be? If so, I'd pull her up on that first.

If not, I'd make it clear that while this is her home, blah blah, she's entitled to her own free time, this is your home, and your childrens home too, and you are sure she understands that you are concerned that she sets a good example to your DCs, since they adore and look up to her so much. Spell out that while having a few drinks in the house is fine, it is never okay for druugs to be brought into the house. I know that's not strictly what you are concerned about, as it's also what she's up to when out with friends, but I think she would then get the message. Don't challenge/question her, just lay down ground rules.

No she's not doing all she should. Ds3 trod in dog poo in the garden today - I went to pick up and it was all over the place in bits. Ds2 said that was there after school yesterday. He'd told ap and she said she didn't want to clean it, so he'd tried himself, but couldn't really manage, hence the scatter effect. If a 5yo in your sole charge is spreading dog faeces around the garden after school then you're deffo not doing your job. But that's basic laziness about cleaning - she wasn't asleep.

plum I have eaten at the Victoria in Holkham several times and the food is very nice. Have never stayed though. If they are taking their 20mo they could choose to stay in one of the lodges within Holkham Park so their son could sleep in a separate bedroom. See here

Burnham Market is very nice and we looked at this place but didn't end up going. There's no spa but the village has a lovely quirky hat shop which is lots of fun! Plus beautiful houses and nice little shops and places to eat. And very close to the gorgeous North Norfolk coast.

Thanks OWW we had such a lovely time. Still feeling a little wistful! Am smiling at your judgey pants. There's nothing better than the chance to wear them freely every once in a while...

NY I have a leopard print shift I've worn for work and think a shirt would be fine. Would be nice with camel trousers as an A/W10 alternative to black.

roma you don't seem that enamoured of her in general to be honest. Do you think it's because you've had more experienced and comprehensive childcare before? I think you need to be able to trust the person watching your children and that includes basic hygiene and a lack of illegal substances. Doesn't sound like you do really trust her?

Looking forward to hearing about birthday parties ltec and bloss - or are they tomorrow?

I am out!! In the Bec dress with Chanel clutch, gorgeous dh and two of our very best friends. Back tomorrow..xx

Bloss Sounds wonderful!

Roma I am sure I've read you can go blind from contact with dog faeces. Toxocariasis?

Sounds lovely Bloss.

We were supposed to go out tonight. I told dh I wasn't happy leaving the kids. Went up to see what ap was doing (she knew she was babysitting), and all was dark and silent. So I bashed on the door and woke her up and asked what was going on. She looked v.pale and puffy and said she was really tired from being up so late. I said she didn't look well, and spending the entire day in one room, and 17 hours straight to recover from a night out was downright strange. Then I said we'd decided not to go out after all as she didn't seem to be in a state, and left her to it.

Will get rid I guess. There are a couple of other things: she wears a wig but has not mentioned this and never appears without it, ever (though does have her own hair - I know because ds1 spied through the bathroom keyhole once and said "mummy, why do you think ap has yellow hair in the day and dark brown hair in the bath?"). I find this quite odd. She has mentioned "her psychiatrist" also. She doesn't appear crazy when she's awake and not in her room, she's intelligent and competent, and I'm not relying on her to do anything complex or dangerous like drive the boys to multiple destinations. Her key task is to collect the kids on time from school bus stop at 5pm 200m away from the door, take them home and supervise them at home. But still, it won't do. I need back up though - will see what other babysitting I can get sorted out tomorrow. I think au pairs maybe don't work except as extra help on top of you being at home, or having some kind of other housekeeping arrangement.

I love the title Ladies, sadly no one would mistake me for a WAG...

You know, every Belgian state school has wrap around childcare from 7.15am to 18.30pm or something like that. Mine unfortunately don't go to Belgian state school for all sorts of logical reasons, but wouldn't such a universal system be great for parents in a pickle?

I keep forgetting to mention that I actually was a WAG about 17 years ago. Well a G anyway. Not for long though - it all wrapped up pretty fast when I found out about W . England striker though - are you impressed? Horrified?

Gah roma now you'll have to give us a clue! So someone who was married 17yrs ago. But that doesn't narrow it down much

My sister is getting an AP in a couple of weeks but, like you say, it's to help her around the house while she's pregnant, after her C-section and in the first few months iwth 2dc. I think it will work well for them in that situation.

Your AP sounds strange!

Oh you have got to give us more of a steer than that Roma! I am impressed and slightly horrified in a good way

Sorry to hear about AP. I have always steered clear for the kind of reasons you have outlined. That said if DH dissappears off to dangerous places for 6 months next year, which is looking really likely, then I may be forced to change my mind.

Roman sounds like you've decided to get rid of your AP. I think you've put up with more than I would have already (although I haven't got any direct experience of APs).

Cake hope spending time with your MIL wasn't too bad today, at least your days together are numbered!

Bloss bet you look great and sounds like you're in for a fab evening.

Oh and happy birthday to baby L for tomorrow Cake

Roma I am impressed you were a WAG and impressed you are not any more (iykwim)

Oh and sounds good Plum. I sometimes buy 10 magazine and enjoy reading Hadley Freeman's stuff . The only name I remember!

Ooh hugely impressed Roman Sorry about your au pair though.

I'm clearing out too carciofi and, as bloss suggests, it's easier after colour thingy. If you haven't worn something for a couple of years and you know it's not a great colour on you, it's easier to get rid, I think. Although I am still struggling to extend that rule to black things. I can wear those with a scarf, right?

Enjoy your cocktails LTEC. I love the way you so confidently mix high end with Primark

Really pleased you like the tunic zembo. I might have to try those churidars too - I had the summer ones which looked great when I was standing up, but had no stretch so were rubbish for lounging in. Jersey looks ideal.

Happy anniversary OWW. How many years?

In love with navy here too happily. I think it is partly fueled by the fact that I've started watching 24 for the first time (only a decade behind the rest of the world) and Nina wears a perfect navy shirt in the first few episodes.

Have done loads of shopping recently, and now need to start wearing it! This Whistles dress is very flattering on. These boots are really comfortable - I'm a bit nervous that they might lose their shape and fall down, but so far so good... Can't find a picture, but got a mushroom shimmer tweed short skirt in Jigsaw which is fab. Really lifts all the autumn colours I'm wearing (khaki, dark brown) as my wardrobe was looking a bit sludgy. Also got this necklace which I love (altough was slightly distressed to see Lorraine Kelly's stand-in waering it on Friday morning ).

Must go now, tea is ready! Hi to everyone I've missed, and sorry for long post and typos!