Any child psychologists or child experts that can help me and DP support his daughter with becoming a sibling?

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Hello,

Just wondered if anyone with a background in child psychology, or even supporting children through trauma, could advise on how to handle this….

Recently my 11 year old DSD was told about my pregnancy (I’m almost 18 weeks now). Her dad told her when they were hanging out, I was in the bedroom room tidying, sorting washing etc. She didn’t take it well: she got extremely upset and angry. Shouted that she didn’t have a dad anymore, and so on. She went back to her mums. She then didn’t talk to her dad (or me) for about five days and didn’t go to school that week (one day was the teacher’s strike to be fair). She said she wanted to kill the baby, and/or herself. Later her dad went round to try and reconcile and it sort of worked (to an extent). I then saw her soon after that, and she was so-so with me, not unfriendly (general chit chat etc.)

Then for half term break my partner took her skiing as planned and she went to ski school for five days. They had a great time and it felt like a bit of progress was made. She was curious, asking questions, but at the same time starting to make demands about how her brother will be raised.

Since they’ve been back it’s been up and down. Sometimes she’s curious and interested and asks her dad to share the pics of the scan to her friends. That’s really nice. She refused to go to her swimming lesson the other night, saying she was tired, she had done her ballet class the night before, but then wouldn’t go to bed until just before midnight. Other times asks me quite loaded/ spikey questions like “how many women die in child birth each year?” “How many babies die in Labour?” “Will he be disabled?” (I’m quite sensitive to this question because my brother has autism which is very profound). That’s fine, I’m the adult so I can deal with this.

What I’m really struggling with though is her demands about what we call and how we raise the baby, this aspect is difficult to deal with for me. Ok maybe I’m too thin skinned and I should thoughen up, I accept that…She sent a message to her dad, before blocking him(?):

Rules for boy that MUST be followed, or else I’ll commit suicide:

1. Not having an xx name (a name specific to my partner’s native country)
2. Not learning xx (the language of my partner’s country - she speaks this language and wants to maintain an exclusive “secret language” with her dad)

3. Not boning [sic] with father (she means bonding)

4. The ring doorbell has to be connect to my phone (my note: I have no idea what this one is about)

5. I always have to keep first place

AND [my name here] HAS TO AGREE TO THIS OR I WILL KILL MYSELF.

She’s also said on another occasion her brother can’t learn violin or piano, the instruments she learns (actually she’s given up the piano now - but I used to play the violin and was very good at it, grade 8, so makes sense if my son picks it up too, and his dad plays the piano so I would imagine he could be quite musical, if that’s what he wants).

I know why she feels this way - I am understanding and empathetic as I can be to her given this seismic change and her world being turned upside down, she has no other siblings and is used to her life being the way it is and doesn’t want it to change - so not looking for explanations, just wondered what I can practically do to support her: listen, try to understand and validate how she feels without going too far the other way. I know my partner and I need to think long term, big picture etc. but I don’t want to be emotionally blackmailed by an 11 year old. Also, I don’t want to come across as trivial, but choosing a name is quite important to me, I don’t want it to be an ordeal (ok, ordeal is slightly hyperbolic, but you probably know what I mean). Pregnancy itself is already a lot.

I know we need to tread very carefully for a peaceful resolution that everyone is happy with. Any child psychology experts, or people that work with children that can weigh in and advise?

Also for a bit of background, I’ve been with my partner since the start of 2021, we struck up a connection in 2020 (covid year) and he split from his ex wife in 2019, but their marriage was troubled and mired in conflict (so I’ve been told by only one party). I think his exW then regretted pushing for the divorce (be careful what you wish for I suppose). Things have moved fast so this is probably contributing to DSD’s general anxiety. I was introduced to her in Nov 2021 and we got on well form the beginning, she embraced me and we enjoyed spending time together (holidays, family weddings, weekends where we go out for food, etc.)

Thank you

PS in preparation for becoming a parent myself I’m reading lots of parenting books to set myself up for motherhood and to learn how to be a good / decent step parent :

• The book you wish your parents had read…
• How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk
• Parenting for dummies
• First time parent

Not a child psychologist by any way but I am a teacher. I think DSD needs to see a therapist, there are underlying issues and probably unresolved feelings from the divorce. Her threatening suicide at only 11 is a cry for help that should be taken seriously.

DP and his ex partner need to have a conversation and both be on the same page about helping DSD and together speak to a child mental health professional to get advice on how best to move forward.

Thanks @ALS94 yes that’s a logical perspective. I think DSD is seeing a “play therapist” (as it was described to me by her the other night) at school soon, but not for a couple of months I think.

I think the time has come for private intensive therapy for dsd but possibly also family therapy - you. Dad and dsd, maybe to include mum as well depending on the evaluation of a CP.

Does dsd have any additional needs? I think I recall your post when she found out you were pregnant. Did mum come and get her? Am I remembering this correctly.

I suspect that some issues are being fed from mum which is why I suggested family therapy.

This has to stop for everyone’s MH.

@Orchidflower1 Correct, DSD called her mum pretty much the minute she found out and asked to be taken to her other home.

It might be worth sitting down as a blended family for some counselling, I hadn’t thought this possible before but things need a resolution as you say. Given there are two children involved and adults that need to co-operate for a satisfactory and fair outcome (as far as that is possible).

What was she like prior to your pregnancy news OP? Sorry if I'm completely out of line but it does make me wonder if she's been given princess treatment from everyone around her as this behaviour is very extreme...

Fucking hell. That’s given me chills.

He needs to get her into therapy and you need to avoid making the mistake of pandering to the insanity she’s spouting because your husband has a child from a previous relationship. She sounds genuinely ill and you shouldn’t be engaging with any of this. You’re allowed to have a baby and enjoy being pregnant and planning for your life as a mum.

My DSD was 10 when we had DD and if she’d behaved like this I’d have been beyond appalled. You don’t have to see her while she’s saying these disgusting and scary things. He can see her outside of your home to protect you from it if that’s what you need.

Her life has been turned on its head in a very short amount of time and she is desperately scrabbling for control. It must be very hard for her to get used to the idea of a sibling out of the blue. Whilst you sound lovely and I’m sure you’ll be a great mum, half siblings are often pretty traumatic for children whose parents have separated.

I think you need to allow her age appropriate control and input whilst holding appropriate boundaries. She may not like that outwardly but if she doesn’t feel that her dad is acting like a reliable and predictable parent she will feel even more unsettled. So, basically it’s a big old no to that list. However, she is clearly hurting and it needs to be a kind, sensitive no. She could try to get involved in other ways, by choosing some clothes or things like that.

She also needs lots of reassurance from her dad, as you’ve said. Family therapy could really benefit you all.

Unfortunately the 'threats' of suicide are what they tend to learn at school, in peer groups, particularly girls as a way to try to manipulate and achieve something.

Its completely disproportionate to the situation and borne out of anger, Im so angry Im going to say something to frighten you. She must also be very fearful of what the future holds for her and this is a fantastical attempt to stop it all happening. The play therapy should start to unpick this but I would try to find out more about the therapist and how they are measuring outcomes and progress.

Agree this is fear driven but I would also wonder about how much her mum has said to her. Particularly re. Ring doorbell comment as I can't work that one out!

Just to be clear not at all suggesting her mum has anything to do with the suicide comments was more wondering how ex wife has taken the news?

I think going to her GP with that note is a good next step for her father. He doesn’t need to take her with him for that appointment.

Potentially, a call to the school about it would also be a good idea.

Some parenting books aren’t likely to cut it at this point. Your DSD needs some proper help, and your husband and you need some proper support with this.

I'm not a child therapist, but I'm an adult counsellor. Her seeing a play therapist sounds great. This is basically like a counsellor or talking therapist, but everything is done through playing as that's how children process their experiences and make sense of the world.

My thoughts are: there is a lot of black and white thinking. Either this or nothing that comes out as a hard demand, then threats of suicide. This may be due to past trauma now, making her more anxious but could be something else like neuro' diversity. But play therapist would probably pick up on any neuro' diversity, so try not to worry.

Her demands are her asking for control and input into the babies life. So, try to address each point. Like she doesn't like one name, are you comfortable with her being part of the naming debate? My hubby and I normally give each other 3 vitos on names we hate. Are you happy with her having 1 or 2 vitos on names? Tell her once she's used them she can't have any more!

Also, reassure her that she and her Dad will get special Daddy Daughter bonding time. And that she will always be his first born and no child can replace her. That's probably what the no bonding with her Dad is all about.

If you can do family therapy, that would be great for discussing the above. It sounds like you want her Mum involved which would be fantastic but if not the three of you would also work.

If she threatens suicide again, then speak to her school and her GP because this is worrying behaviour, and a child mental health professional needs to assess her and advise you specifically on how best to support her rather than just generic advice.

Thanks for this great advice @Napmum its very helpful!

I’m not that comfortable with her being part of the naming decision if I’m honest. This might change overtime, but obviously there’s a hard deadline at some point. Although one the names on the list she did warm to. So maybe that’s a way of showing her we took onboard her opinion.

I’m just worried about letting her feel like she’s got her way in certain aspects of deciding her brother’s future life, and setting a dangerous precedent. Like she gets some kind of complex where she feels she can control everyone and everything around her (I feel this has even started anyway - e.g. she announced to me on returning from their trip that while away, her and Daddy decided that the baby wouldn’t learn to speak their language or have a name from that country - he agreed nothing of the kind…) Doesn’t seem very healthy or good for her own sound psychological development.

I think you're right here OP. You can be kind to her but you also need to draw a firm boundary that the kind of control she is seeking is not at all appropriate .

I really think your DSD needs some therapy and probably family therapy as well.

I know all kids and their experiences are different, but my niece gained a half sister (from brother and new SIL) when she was 10. I can't even imagine her acting like this. I don't think she was delighted exactly (though she loves her little sister now!) but she certainly never displayed any of this behaviour.

Hi @Franxx68

Yes it’s a valid question. Based on what I’ve observed, she can be quick to anger, quick to sulking….

Second time I met DSD it was at her 10th birthday. It was just group of girlfriends over for a play date with music and activities. As it was winding down there was an incident: all girls involved in a bit of horse play where they were hanging off each other (or something) and DSD got hysterical that one of her friends hurt her wrist. I thought her hysterics were a bit out of proportion but I don’t know what she was feeling in terms of pain so I could be wrong. Anyway, cue lots of crying screaming, the friend busting into tears, and the bit that shocked me was DSD saying she wanted to get a knife ‘to cut her friend’ as payback. She said she wouldn’t but she wanted to do it. This was also in front of the poor girl’s dad. She screamed at DP to get her BM on the phone, but he said no it wasn’t appropriate or good behaviour to drag her BM into it (I still think she managed to call her BM someone). It was a giant mess and it went on way longer than it should have doneZ

She can be quite mean/ spiteful to her friends sometimes, and to family. Like her younger female cousin. I have a bit of soft spot for this cousin I think she’s really sweet (she doesn’t speak English and I don’t speak her language), but I’m not allowed to interact that much her otherwise DSD gets the hump with me….I guess the seeds have been there all along.

Personally I think its completely inappropriate for her to be involved in naming the child. Not only does it 'adult' her too much, the baby isnt a pet or toy for her and it gives her far too much control and enmeshment.

I wouldn’t involve her in the name decision either. It would blur what need to be some nice, clear boundaries for her.

That isn’t being mean. She needs those clear, firm boundaries so she can find a way back to feeling safe.

By all means give her appropriate areas of control in her life, and related to the baby, but she needs to clearly understand what things are your decision as parents to a new baby, and what her role is and can be as a big sister. You, as a mother, need to be comfortable with this stuff too.

She needs support but on the other hand she can't be dictating the child's name or if he is allowed to play certain instruments or learn a language as as for the bonding well that's out of anyone's control. The ring doorbell is so she can know when her brother is spending time with her dad and if your taking the baby out anywhere. No other sibling be it full, hall or step sibling would be allowed to dictate such things

By all means listen to what she has to say but you and her dad are the adults and you decide what is best for your child not an 11 year old.

Play therapy and talking, big sister books etc are all options.

Once your baby is here she may well bond well with the baby and even be obsessed like many siblings do. Please don't feel bad full, half and step siblings can react in all sorts of ways to a new baby.

What's important now is she is given support and help but firm boundaries too. All you can do they is love her and give her the tools to accept that a new baby is coming.

Perhaps she could pick out an outfit for herself and one for the baby?

I think there are other ways to involve her as a big sister without crossing the boundaries into big decisions you will both make together as parents. For example, maybe involve her in choosing outfits or getting toys or choosing a theme baby might like for the nursery. I'd be trying to reinforce her role and how great she'll be as a big sister and how glad you are that baby will have her around to love and care for him. I'd also be really reinforcing that while yes, some things will change especially in the beginning when baby needs a lot of help with everything, lots of things will still stay the same. And I'd focus on building up parts of her routine that will stay the same- for example could your dh take her out for ice cream just the two of them once a week and that be something they continue when baby comes so she still has some time with just him. I'd go down the route of trying to get her in touch with her emotions behind the outbursts and naming it to give her better language to use eg. You seem really worried that everything will change, you seem concerned that you won't feel as close to your dad when baby comes etc and then try to reassure the reason behind.

I'd be clear with her on boundaries. I understand that you are feeling x but I can't let you do/say y and explain why. Here's how we can manage x. Then redirect her onto something else. I'd also be concerned at the amount of talk of violence and self harm at such a young age and would be curious as to where she's heard these things being said. I think her mum absolutely needs to be on the same page with you on this and the three of you need to show a united front. I'd recommend therapy with a child focused and trauma informed therapist and look at how you can better communicate. Could be things like giving her a diary to put her thoughts and feelings into. A postbox in the house where she can leave you notes about how she's feeling when she finds it difficult to tell you verbally. And I would try to promote as much family time as possible from sitting down together for dinner with no TV to talk about everyone's day to playing board games or going for trips out etc. And I'd look at making a plan with her for when she's struggling when baby comes for example maybe she gets a set of cards that say something like I feel worried, I feel lonely, I feel anxious etc so when she has those feelings she can give you or dh the card and you then try to do something to reassure her such as involving her in whatever you're doing with baby/getting everyone out for a walk/dh taking her out 1-1 and I'd recommend you take her out for 1-1 time too. Just make sure it's things you feel are manageable for when baby arrives that you'll be able to live up to and keep your word on. I'd also be a bit curious as to how her mum is talking about the pregnancy when she's at home with her- is she likely to be very negative about it because that could feed into her anxiety over it.

Really good comments overall, I agree with many of them. Particularly the combination of empathy/validation, with a boundary, with appropriate and controlled choice.

Eg on rule 1 "I know it must be upsetting that you don't get to choose their name. It's up to their parents to choose the name. We are thinking x or y, which do you like best?"

Whereas some need more boundaries eg, rule 3 "I wonder if you are worried about losing your dad. You will never be replaced, he will always love you so much. we are all going to bond with the baby, including you!"

Regarding the threats to end ones life or harm others, I would definitely ask your DH approach her mum, the GP, and the therapist she is linked in with about this.

She needs a therapist now, it can't wait. Every time she wants to kill herself she needs to be taken to hospital.

I work with children with special needs in a behavioural support capacity.

I wouldn't ponder to her demands for control over x y and z.

I'd give her a sense of security in a way of reassurance.

So ask her things like "you currently come round x days. I'd like this to continue like this but I'm happy for more if you'd like that?" So she feel like nothing will change but also she won't be pushed aside and is always welcome.

When she says things like "I'll lull myself if ...:" respond with things like "I'm sorry you feel that angry about that. We would all be very sad if you did that. But I know you're grown up enough to understand why that has to happen." Then change the subject and engages her in positive conversation about her school and friends and life in general.

Often controlling behaviour is bourne out of anxiety. People make the mistake of caving in/ removing the boundary. This makes them feel more out of control. Increases the anxiety and doesn't solve the problem.

I agree with those above about therapy both for her and as a family. She needs to know that her place won't change but also that life doesn't revolve around her and she doesn't get to dictate to the adults.

You also sound lovely by the way.

Sorry you're going through this.

I am not an expert. I would recommend not letting her name the child, she needs to not have that "power" over the baby.

Also, I'd add to your reading list "stepmonster" by Wednesday Martin. I saw it recommended on here once and it was really beneficial to me, for me. Not for the DSC. You need to make sure in all this that you don't get lost.

Having read your update about the party I think what this child needs is proper parenting.
She’s obviously been allowed to get away with bad behaviour for years.
Of course she want’s control, it’s what she’s always had.
Therapy may help but in your shoes OP I would firmly reiterate that adults make decisions about their dc and her input whilst noted will not affect your parenting decisions.
No good parent would allow their dc life to be ruled by an older, very manipulative sibling.