Any child psychologists or child experts that can help me and DP support his daughter with becoming a sibling?

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Hello,

Just wondered if anyone with a background in child psychology, or even supporting children through trauma, could advise on how to handle this….

Recently my 11 year old DSD was told about my pregnancy (I’m almost 18 weeks now). Her dad told her when they were hanging out, I was in the bedroom room tidying, sorting washing etc. She didn’t take it well: she got extremely upset and angry. Shouted that she didn’t have a dad anymore, and so on. She went back to her mums. She then didn’t talk to her dad (or me) for about five days and didn’t go to school that week (one day was the teacher’s strike to be fair). She said she wanted to kill the baby, and/or herself. Later her dad went round to try and reconcile and it sort of worked (to an extent). I then saw her soon after that, and she was so-so with me, not unfriendly (general chit chat etc.)

Then for half term break my partner took her skiing as planned and she went to ski school for five days. They had a great time and it felt like a bit of progress was made. She was curious, asking questions, but at the same time starting to make demands about how her brother will be raised.

Since they’ve been back it’s been up and down. Sometimes she’s curious and interested and asks her dad to share the pics of the scan to her friends. That’s really nice. She refused to go to her swimming lesson the other night, saying she was tired, she had done her ballet class the night before, but then wouldn’t go to bed until just before midnight. Other times asks me quite loaded/ spikey questions like “how many women die in child birth each year?” “How many babies die in Labour?” “Will he be disabled?” (I’m quite sensitive to this question because my brother has autism which is very profound). That’s fine, I’m the adult so I can deal with this.

What I’m really struggling with though is her demands about what we call and how we raise the baby, this aspect is difficult to deal with for me. Ok maybe I’m too thin skinned and I should thoughen up, I accept that…She sent a message to her dad, before blocking him(?):

Rules for boy that MUST be followed, or else I’ll commit suicide:

1. Not having an xx name (a name specific to my partner’s native country)
2. Not learning xx (the language of my partner’s country - she speaks this language and wants to maintain an exclusive “secret language” with her dad)

3. Not boning [sic] with father (she means bonding)

4. The ring doorbell has to be connect to my phone (my note: I have no idea what this one is about)

5. I always have to keep first place

AND [my name here] HAS TO AGREE TO THIS OR I WILL KILL MYSELF.

She’s also said on another occasion her brother can’t learn violin or piano, the instruments she learns (actually she’s given up the piano now - but I used to play the violin and was very good at it, grade 8, so makes sense if my son picks it up too, and his dad plays the piano so I would imagine he could be quite musical, if that’s what he wants).

I know why she feels this way - I am understanding and empathetic as I can be to her given this seismic change and her world being turned upside down, she has no other siblings and is used to her life being the way it is and doesn’t want it to change - so not looking for explanations, just wondered what I can practically do to support her: listen, try to understand and validate how she feels without going too far the other way. I know my partner and I need to think long term, big picture etc. but I don’t want to be emotionally blackmailed by an 11 year old. Also, I don’t want to come across as trivial, but choosing a name is quite important to me, I don’t want it to be an ordeal (ok, ordeal is slightly hyperbolic, but you probably know what I mean). Pregnancy itself is already a lot.

I know we need to tread very carefully for a peaceful resolution that everyone is happy with. Any child psychology experts, or people that work with children that can weigh in and advise?

Also for a bit of background, I’ve been with my partner since the start of 2021, we struck up a connection in 2020 (covid year) and he split from his ex wife in 2019, but their marriage was troubled and mired in conflict (so I’ve been told by only one party). I think his exW then regretted pushing for the divorce (be careful what you wish for I suppose). Things have moved fast so this is probably contributing to DSD’s general anxiety. I was introduced to her in Nov 2021 and we got on well form the beginning, she embraced me and we enjoyed spending time together (holidays, family weddings, weekends where we go out for food, etc.)

Thank you

PS in preparation for becoming a parent myself I’m reading lots of parenting books to set myself up for motherhood and to learn how to be a good / decent step parent :

• The book you wish your parents had read…
• How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk
• Parenting for dummies
• First time parent

Spoiled brat springs to mind...

Lougle

”She's 10. She's using shocking language because it's all she's got. The adults around her need to be unflappable and consistent. Not running to therapists.”

As were Jon Venables and Robert Thompson.
She needs professional help, OP Not opinions from unqualified “I blame the parents” types on internet forums.

Is she used to getting her own way in all things?
Personally I wouldn't let her be involved with naming the baby. There are lots of other ways she can be involved.

I think as others have said some family therapy is a good idea. Also to get to the bottom of why she is making these threats - that behaviour is very extreme. As if she is serious then that is very worrying but if they are empty threats then that is worrying too as it is very manipulative.

Oh Christ, so you’ve hardly known her long at all then? No wonder this is all such a massive upheaval for her. Dads new girlfriend and now dads having a new baby.

She sounds like she is really struggling. Has her dad spoken to her mum? I think the family therapy would be a good idea.

Ive messaged you.

Finally someone said it!

@Meandfour yes that’s fair. It’s only been just over a year. It’s ok for life to move fast when you’re an adult because your in control of it, but for young kids it must be very disempowering.

Dad and mum speak a lot, but I don’t think they decisively settle on a plan of action or a road map for her…

@jellybe

Is she used to getting her own way in all things?

Yeah pretty much. I’m the youngest of three so I don’t know what it’s like to grow up alone, I guess you get used to being the only one consulted and then that leads to thinking you’re in charge? If she has to do something she doesn’t like she’ll usually try and turn it into a negotiation to get something she wants out of it - I’m basing this on what I’ve observed.

But also, she tries to use her honed negotiation skills for good if she can (things that she really shouldn’t have to do actually because she’s a child). Like over Christmas her and her dad went on a trip to his home city (I couldn’t go as was on medication for morning sickness - HG) and her mum lent her a smart case which she believed would travel in the cabin, but was actually checked into the hold. When it was returned to her scuffed up and no longer “like new” mum was upset. I get it, she assumed because it was a fairly short trip they weren’t checking bags in, so it was annoying to get it back in a worse state. DP didn’t understand the whole upset, from his pov it was used for its intended purpose. I could see it from both sides, it was just bad communication. But DSD tried to act as a diplomat between the the two to get it settled and to try and get her dad to buy a new one for her mum. I gently explained to her that she shouldn’t have to be the peace broker of her parents, also that throwing money at the situation isn’t a solution either. She tries to be all powerful really, which is setting herself up for future sadness and disappointment I reckon.

Poor girl is massively anxious and isn't finding much comfort and security from the adults around her. She's worried about losing her special relationship with her dad. She's worried about you and the risks of childbirth.
She's worried that the new baby will be an embarrassment, a threat, too vulnerable and will take over her life and that of the whole family.
She's also worried about her mother feeling 'left out' of all the new baby excitement.

Poor kid is overwhelmed.

She's looking for some reassurance and someone to treat her like the child she is. Her dramatic statements presumably get her some attention and that feels as though she has a bit of control.

Really she just wants the grown-ups to take the lead and keep her safe. She will get reassurance from consistent, reasonable boundaries; child-appropriate explanations; being listened to; adults taking care not to let her overhear unsuitable conversations and reminders that she is, and always will be, loved. Let her know that it's normal to have mixed-up feelings about the changes ahead and that it's good to tell someone if she needs to.

All the usual things like allowing her appropriate responsibilities, doing fun things together, giving praise and encouragement to make good choices will be extra important now.

Not everything has to be about the baby. Remember to enjoy being with her as a special, unique little person in her own right.

That’s not really the question at hand…

I'm gonna jump in and say this isn't normal behaviour. Even with ND this line of thinking isn't normal. ND people can know right and wrong if taught. I have asd before anyone wants to jump on this. And I certainly know right from wrong.

It does sound based on your updates that she's mentally v unwell but I also wonder if either parent has ever parented her properly? Firm fair consistent boundaries.

You absolutely cannot pander to this behaviour because it's the more extreme version of "fine I'm not seeing dad". Does she have any actual concept of death ?

I think someone has mentioned stepmonster which is Brillant. Having a child is all consuming and sometimes you can lose yourself in motherhood. Remember you are and will be a person in your own right after having the baby.

What's DP reactions to DSC knife issue ?
Don't get a ring doorbell I worry this is to monitor and control your actions with baby and might be being fed by mum ...

I would for a while at least don't leave her alone with baby. She's clearly v unwell and I have sympathy with that massively but she can't threaten to unlive herself every time she doesn't get her way.

Re her comments re language I would be like "ahh no sorry that's not a decision you can make for baby that's up to me and your dad" and change topic, be kind firm and change focus.

Adults waltzing from one relationship to the next. Feckless father knocking up a new girlfriend he's known a few months. But the bewildered child is the problem?

The girl is right to be upset. She'll be history once there's a new baby on the scene. Happens all the time. Poor kid. Pregnant girlfriend has bought some parenting books to prove she's the good guy and any problem with the situation is down to the child being a spoiled brat/psycho/in need of therapy.

100% agree with this. She is in a really dark place with this change to her world. This needs to be tackled straight on.

The girl is right to be upset. She'll be history once there's a new baby on the scene. Happens all the time.

This is really immature. Most children are not "history" when a sibling is born. This sounds like what happens when a child with that unfounded fear grows up without growing out of it. It helps nothing for adults to feed this narrative, it isn't true the majority of the time.

This sounds like what happens when a child with that unfounded fear

That is an incredibly naïve perspective because for many children that is a well founded fear. Even in families where there is ongoing contact with parents, emotional estrangement is an extremely common issue the children have to contend with. Parents who don’t accept that their happily ever after has massively negatively impacted on their children’s quality of life.

It's extremely unlikely that it's more common for parents to treat their elder children like "history" when they have another than it is for them to not do that.

It's not naive in the slightest. It's avoiding catastrophising and feeding the fear. Presenting it as inevitable that an older child will be history when their parents have another is ridiculous.

@aSofaNearYou

thank you. I thought it was an odd comment too.

I was having this conversation with my DP yesterday, that if hypothetically DSD’s greatest fears were realised and she was forgotten, left behind, excluded etc. in whose interests would this be? I would argue no one’s because it would make my DP a failed father, his youngest DC would see what a sub optimal parent he was and so youngest DC would then internalise this information and feel totally insecure and anxious about it, and both children would miss out on an important sibling relationship. And rather selfishly I don’t want DP to be a useless dad to one of children either because it wouldn’t bode well for me either.

Of course, if DSD does decide she wants nothing to to with her baby sibling, that’s her right, no one can force her to love him. How she feels is how she feels, no right or wrong there. We just need her to know that the the option of a relationship is there and that’s she’s always welcome. She’ll still see and spend time with her dad regardless. But it can’t be a negotiation as in “I’ll only be his older sister if he isn’t taught X language, doesn’t have X name and (sorry, dropping in new info which I know MN hates) isn’t taken to MY seaside, holiday house” (long story, but basically DP and his brother co-own a tiny house by the beach that was left to them by their GPs - but DSD loves the place so much she’s got it into her head that she has a right to it after her DF and uncle are gone, even though she has three cousins!).

I have hope though. My auntie is the youngest of four and my mum was 16 when she was born and my other auntie 11. Now my two aunties are as close as they could possibly be and that’s with an 11 year gap.

She's worried about you and the risks of childbirth.
Seriously? I interpreted that as the kid implying that she hoped the OP and/or the baby would die in childbirth. I think this child is a psychopath and I would run very far away from this relationship. No good will come of it.

I don't think either of you should be entertaining any of this crap to be honest. She is a spoilt brat. Shut it down when she starts. Tell her it's unacceptable. Your baby will be loved by both of you equally to her and she needs telling that. Do not give in to any of her stupid requests

Dad can sit down with her with her note and go through her worries about each one. He can validate her feelings and the changes she will experience without giving her power over decisions.

Her suicidal thoughts should also be taken seriously. She might act on them impulsively during a dark moment of feeling unloved or unwanted.

Her world is changing and she has no control over any of it and she clearly isn't handling it well. She may also be starting or going through puberty at the same time and that can be hard enough on tweens without also dealing with dad's new girlfriend and now a new baby. To her this is all just rejection and loss. She isn't gaining anything in her mind, just losing out while others gain.

It is pretty common. Who do you think dad wants to spend time with - his new girlfriend and cute cuddly baby or his prickly moody, obnoxious, difficult tween who is trying to interfere in the new family he is creating.

It is very common since the new nuclear family spends far more time together as they often live together full time, that the other child becomes the outsider who has to be still dealt with. Those threads are on here all the time. People trying to figure out how to have the step children less or to limit their time at the nuclear family home with strict schedules and little flexibility.

*It's extremely unlikely that it's more common for parents to treat their elder children like "history" when they have another than it is for them to not do that.

It's not naive in the slightest. It's avoiding catastrophising and feeding the fear.*

That is not my experience. A very good friend has recently split up with her DH and moved on with a work colleague. She is constantly telling us on the one hand how easily her children are adapting but on the other hand describing behaviour from them that suggests otherwise.

I think it is nigh on universal that parents who leave a relationship and relatively quickly move onto another relationship deny their children’s emotional fallout from that.

I think they do it to not have to cope with the guilt it would bring up for them and I think that the children definitely end up emotionally distanced in these instances. This is not an uncommon situation.

Do I think my friend should no leave an unhappy relationship? absolutely not! but do I think it is ok for her to deny the emotional fallout on the children no I don’t.

That's a completely different issue. I was talking about a PP saying when they have a baby "she will be history". Completely different from just denying the emotional fallout.

What a supportive friend you sound @Thepurplelantern.

Let’s hope your friend has people around her who want to support her to make the best of things - for her children too - rather than judging her for ‘denying the emotional fallout’ and damage to her children.

It is pretty common. Who do you think dad wants to spend time with - his new girlfriend and cute cuddly baby or his prickly moody, obnoxious, difficult tween who is trying to interfere in the new family he is creating.

Since we're talking about threads that are on here all the time, I'd actually argue that it's far more common to see threads about dad's wanting to hang out with the older kids and avoid the "boring" baby, than the other way around.

It is very common since the new nuclear family spends far more time together as they often live together full time, that the other child becomes the outsider who has to be still dealt with. Those threads are on here all the time. People trying to figure out how to have the step children less or to limit their time at the nuclear family home with strict schedules and little flexibility.

But regardless, the phasing I was questioning was "she will be history" - as in, totally forgotten about and abandoned. Slight negative changes do not constitute that. What's more, seeing some negative threads on here (a place where people usually post about their problems, not their happy lives) does not make it a foregone conclusion at all. Even on here, there's just as many people talking about growing up feeling no distinction between themselves and their half siblings. And there's no actual statistical evidence being shared that in any way suggests the majority of children are abandoned when their parents produce a half sibling. Most likely because it simply isn't the case. Whether there are ups and downs or not, in most cases the older child is not "history".