Any child psychologists or child experts that can help me and DP support his daughter with becoming a sibling?

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Hello,

Just wondered if anyone with a background in child psychology, or even supporting children through trauma, could advise on how to handle this….

Recently my 11 year old DSD was told about my pregnancy (I’m almost 18 weeks now). Her dad told her when they were hanging out, I was in the bedroom room tidying, sorting washing etc. She didn’t take it well: she got extremely upset and angry. Shouted that she didn’t have a dad anymore, and so on. She went back to her mums. She then didn’t talk to her dad (or me) for about five days and didn’t go to school that week (one day was the teacher’s strike to be fair). She said she wanted to kill the baby, and/or herself. Later her dad went round to try and reconcile and it sort of worked (to an extent). I then saw her soon after that, and she was so-so with me, not unfriendly (general chit chat etc.)

Then for half term break my partner took her skiing as planned and she went to ski school for five days. They had a great time and it felt like a bit of progress was made. She was curious, asking questions, but at the same time starting to make demands about how her brother will be raised.

Since they’ve been back it’s been up and down. Sometimes she’s curious and interested and asks her dad to share the pics of the scan to her friends. That’s really nice. She refused to go to her swimming lesson the other night, saying she was tired, she had done her ballet class the night before, but then wouldn’t go to bed until just before midnight. Other times asks me quite loaded/ spikey questions like “how many women die in child birth each year?” “How many babies die in Labour?” “Will he be disabled?” (I’m quite sensitive to this question because my brother has autism which is very profound). That’s fine, I’m the adult so I can deal with this.

What I’m really struggling with though is her demands about what we call and how we raise the baby, this aspect is difficult to deal with for me. Ok maybe I’m too thin skinned and I should thoughen up, I accept that…She sent a message to her dad, before blocking him(?):

Rules for boy that MUST be followed, or else I’ll commit suicide:

1. Not having an xx name (a name specific to my partner’s native country)
2. Not learning xx (the language of my partner’s country - she speaks this language and wants to maintain an exclusive “secret language” with her dad)

3. Not boning [sic] with father (she means bonding)

4. The ring doorbell has to be connect to my phone (my note: I have no idea what this one is about)

5. I always have to keep first place

AND [my name here] HAS TO AGREE TO THIS OR I WILL KILL MYSELF.

She’s also said on another occasion her brother can’t learn violin or piano, the instruments she learns (actually she’s given up the piano now - but I used to play the violin and was very good at it, grade 8, so makes sense if my son picks it up too, and his dad plays the piano so I would imagine he could be quite musical, if that’s what he wants).

I know why she feels this way - I am understanding and empathetic as I can be to her given this seismic change and her world being turned upside down, she has no other siblings and is used to her life being the way it is and doesn’t want it to change - so not looking for explanations, just wondered what I can practically do to support her: listen, try to understand and validate how she feels without going too far the other way. I know my partner and I need to think long term, big picture etc. but I don’t want to be emotionally blackmailed by an 11 year old. Also, I don’t want to come across as trivial, but choosing a name is quite important to me, I don’t want it to be an ordeal (ok, ordeal is slightly hyperbolic, but you probably know what I mean). Pregnancy itself is already a lot.

I know we need to tread very carefully for a peaceful resolution that everyone is happy with. Any child psychology experts, or people that work with children that can weigh in and advise?

Also for a bit of background, I’ve been with my partner since the start of 2021, we struck up a connection in 2020 (covid year) and he split from his ex wife in 2019, but their marriage was troubled and mired in conflict (so I’ve been told by only one party). I think his exW then regretted pushing for the divorce (be careful what you wish for I suppose). Things have moved fast so this is probably contributing to DSD’s general anxiety. I was introduced to her in Nov 2021 and we got on well form the beginning, she embraced me and we enjoyed spending time together (holidays, family weddings, weekends where we go out for food, etc.)

Thank you

PS in preparation for becoming a parent myself I’m reading lots of parenting books to set myself up for motherhood and to learn how to be a good / decent step parent :

• The book you wish your parents had read…
• How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk
• Parenting for dummies
• First time parent

Are you okay? Honestly? I feel so bad for you too it might be her first sibling? But it’s your first baby and you don’t deserve this wbour your unborn child.

There is no way I’d be allowing her to make rules or allowing her to think she can and that’s down to your partner to put his foot down. It’s absurd that both parents haven’t made a stand and told her to stop this nonsense. I know many people don’t like becoming a sibling but they have got to suck it up and learn to accept it. They will love it when life begins and they grow together and she could get so involved.

so what I would suggest to you is, try and switch off enjoy it for what it is and put your foot down with your partner this is your special time and your baby

Thanks @AnneLovesGilbert Apart from during flare ups like these, i do feel calm generally. I’m not sure why. Maybe because I know the real work begins when my baby arrives so this is just the calm before the storm. And partly because I don’t actually believe she will do harm to anyone or herself. My dad thinks she’s just grandstanding. I am mystified as to how it all will play out though.

Will see what happens when our baby does arrive in July. She’s been promised a puppy “after summer“ but seems like she’s been promised a puppy forever, so we‘ll see if this time it really happens. And DP is not in favour.

Maybe it will be a good thing to give her something to channel her energy into and she thinks she wants to intro her puppy to her brother.

You can't really control the outcome let her sulk, she might decide to have a break from visiting for a while . Some DC from first marriages never accept new siblings , most do. There's nothing really you can do about it keep your home open and maybe just keep the visiting to her and her DF outside of the house for a while.

Keep a very close eye on your future baby, op. This girl sounds unpredictable.

@motherofC thank you, yes I’m ok. It is a steep learning curve for everyone I suppose.

DP spoke ex wife recently about how best to support their DD. Ex wife claims her DD continues using her for plans to take revenge on DP and me (which is very hard for her as mum , she feels). She then tells her DD that I won‘t be party to any of this, but her DD then feels abandoned and upset with mum. Yet quickly recovers and starts expressing more kind feelings and thoughts of being a friend to her baby brother and a role model in order to trick him and then abandon him. All very strange. But then again later she says that she might not want to abandon him in the future as her feelings might change. I’m hoping it’s the latter.

sorry, that was a hard one to explain, child logic again!

@davegrohll thanks I really hope so!

I don’t think that is child logic. I think it’s scary, manipulative, potentially very worrying and dangerous.

Part of me is glad you’re not a stressed out wreck because I want you to enjoy your pregnancy and feel optimistic. Part of me wants to (gently) shake you and bellow “this isn’t normal, or acceptable, it’s fucking insane and you’re going to be living on eggshells trying to keep a vulnerable baby safe, please, for the love of god ruuuuuuuuuuuuun”.

OP, if it helps, my DSD did not want my DD. She referred to her as the creep as she said my scan pictures were creepy etc.

Didn't help my DH was a wet blanket and never said anything to her about it..!

Anyway, things changed when DD arrived - she is besotted with her and is so protective.

Is it worthwhile getting your DP to ask his daughter what her main worries are about your son and maybe offer reassurance?

Also I hate to type this and I hope it's not the case (unfortunately in my case it was the main contributing factor), but does DSDs Mum say anything negative about you and the baby? Any comments such as "your dad won't want you now he has a new baby coming". I'm hoping my case is an isolated incident, but it may be something worth considering.

Hi @commentnotaquestion thank you, yes that’s such a good idea and actually I had a short course of therapy through the NHS for a different issue (I managed to get it as an antenatal talking therapy referral) so was on my mind to find long term support. Basically, long story short, but my elder brother is profoundly autistic so I had fears about being pregnant and the idea that I might be at higher risk of having a child with a similar condition, almost to the point of not going through with the pregnancy despite really wanting the baby. I’m so glad I didn’t have a TOP in the end, and have made peace with the idea that literally anything can happen when you have children, I‘ll love him exactly the same whether he is neurotypical, neurodiverse, becomes poorly with something completely different and so on…

I'm a teacher of this age group.
She sounds to me as if she needs serious help

@MidlifeCrisisInMy30s thank you yes, I do love hearing this and it brings me a lot of comfort.

To your other point/ query - while I don’t think DSD‘s mum is a big fan of mine (I met DP a year after they separated and they were only on the way to getting divorced, so maybe she thinks it was too soon, plus maybe regretted the decision to break up?) I don’t think she is saying anything negative about me or the baby to her DD because at the end of the day she knows how psychologically damaging that would be to her own daughter. So she is trying to support her DD, but I have no idea if she’s pushing back strongly enough expressing the murderous desires etc.

This makes me wonder if DSD’s mum isn’t guilty of adultification of her DD, to an extent.

She’s a young child. Maybe pre-pubescent. She’s been through a lot. She’s an only child of two adults who haven’t put her first. She’s gone from pillar to post and is looking for someone to prioritise her. Now there’s a new baby. Her ideas are pretty adult in the sense that they resonate with us as adults: they’re quite complex, they’re fairly well thought through, it’s evident thought has gone into them. But her emotions are those of a small child: she’s thrashing about, lashing out, sometimes loving sometimes hateful, sophisticated one minute and baby like the next. All quite age appropriate. But perhaps her mum is treating her too much like an adult and not enough as a child - or her own child in need of a mother.

Maybe I have it all wrong. But she needs help and I think you need to erect firm but loving barriers around yourself and your son until this patch is over. Boundaries. So much with children this age is about boundaries. Consistent reinforcement of healthy boundaries.

Wow she sounds absolutely horrible, totally spoiled! Framing your pregnancy as an understandable trauma also makes me wonder if she is seriously coddled? I imagine this behavior isn't new?

I agree she needs therapy, but this really makes me wonder how she has been parented?

Absolutely disgusting behavior.

My advice would be for her parents to actually parent her, stop spoiling her and give her boundaries. She needs to know where she stands in the family and what the limits to her control are. This behavior is extremely unhealthy and makes me think she has not been given limits to the extent she is completely out of control.

I agree with PP - strong, consistent boundaries from DH. No more pandering to tantrums.

But I would seriously disengage yourself from this. You sound like you are already taking the steps to be a much better parent by reading those books!

Bollocks! How have they 'not put her first'? She sounds like she has 3 people milling around her trying to support her and give her treats and hang on her feelings. If anything she has been given too much indulgence and not enough limits.

Congratulations on the new dpuppy.. Because when dsd gets one it will be sharing your home when she does...
Imo.
No way should a baby be unsupervised around dsd either....

I doubt the puppy will last long, DSD will likely punish it when it doesn't do as she demands, I'd not let her near a defenceless animal.

This is exactly how I feel.

There is something really unsettling and bizarrely premeditated and thought through about a lot of the things she's saying. The thing about wanting to reel the baby in so she can abandon him later, for example. It's like she gets pleasure from dreaming up specific ways of hurting people, it's more worrying than if she just generically said she hates him, or even would hurt him.

I hate to say it but this doesn't just come across like a nurture problem. People are against you saying it here, but her nature seems very concerning.

@Bunnyishotandcross yes I’ve already raised a red flag about this. Practically I don’t think we can host the puppy with a new born at the same time. I will have all my attention on the baby and my partner will have all of his attention on the baby and his DD equally, so there just isn’t the bandwidth for looking after a baby animal that deserves care and attention and all the practical help. I don’t think it’s a task an 11 year old can handle by herself, however much she protests otherwise.

I have a friend with a new puppy and he gets up twice a night to let her out to wee in the garden! No way any of us are doing that. Another family friend has a new puppy and instead of this approach, she puts newspaper down so the dog can wee inside in the night. No way now how is my place going to smell of dog wee! Probably not safe for the baby either.

Thats if the puppy happens at all, it’s been promised for so long now I’m not convinced it will ever arrive.

Its a funny thing really because DSD’s mum was given a puppy when she was little (chow chow) but had to give it up quite early on. DP tells me the puppy was taken away too soon from her mother (because ex wife demanded it sooner, so I’ve heard) which resulted in a slightly disturbed animal with bad behaviour. This was in the Soviet Union so i don’t know if animal training was a thing or not. Anyway, puppy inevitably lashed out and bit younger brother so it had to be given away. I’m wondering if this is why the puppy has been promised for years and hasn’t shown up yet? DSD‘s mum is nervous / worried of the commitment and potential failure?

@aSofaNearYou

I hate to say it but this doesn't just come across like a nurture problem. People are against you saying it here, but her nature seems very concerning.

Yeah, no i get what you’re saying. I’m just hoping as she mature she grow and get more broader view of the world. Philippa Perry says it’s a mixture of both nature and nurture so I get it….

Jesus OP this all sounds awful. All I want to say is look after yourself and baby. NEVER leave her alone unsupervised with him. Ever. This is going to be a nightmare once baby is born. Why didn't your DP say anything when she called her baby brother stupid? Why didn't HE shut her straight down when she said baby wouldn't be going to the beach house? I would step right back if I were you, concentrate on your son. DO NOT let it ruin your babies first few weeks, months or years 😬set your stall with DP now, if she acts terribly you expect him to deal with it swiftly. There is a reason she thinks she has so much power.
Hopefully therapy deals with some of it but if this is her, then life will be hard. Dont let it ruin your sons childhood.

Oh and I hope shes been told nothing on that list will be followed. Ridiculous.