Desperate - manipulative DSS, living with us permanently

[Helpwanted1]

I'm so desperate for help and I want to see if anyone on here can advise or even if they've gone through something similar.

I have 2 children with my DH, they're 3 and 5 He has an older son from a short term relationship who is nearly 10.

DH wasn't told about his son for a good few years, as his mother thought another man was his father. This came out after a DNA test 3 years ago.

Unfortunately DSS's mother has always had problems, they've come to a head and after SS involvement we now have DSS living with us full time and will be for the foreseeable future.

When he moved in as SS suggested we started family and individual therapy for DSS, this is a huge change for him, especially since he has only known his father for a few years, and they were building contact for a year of that. He has a new house, living full time with siblings (he was an only with his DM) and they lived a chaotic lifestyle, not many rules, no bed time etc.

We have tried to manage this as best we can and are being flexible with our house rules to help with the transition but he has developed a skill in manipulation and I'm struggling to deal with it.

DH is overcompensating and DSS feeds off this, if I say he can't watch TV whilst we are eating dinner he will tell DH I've shouted at him and made him feel unwelcome. DSS stole some money from DH and hid it in my purse, he fell at school and told DH I pushed him out of the car.

I've spoken about this in our therapy sessions and it seems DSS wants his father to himself and I'm a barrier to this. Again I totally understand his emotions but I'm the one bearing the brunt of this.

Our family therapist suggested I over attach to DSS to make him feel secure with me and therefore doesn't want me to leave. But he is taking this too far, when we go out together 1-1 he will ask for the most expensive toys, foods on the menu at lunch etc.

Things have taken a turn for the worst over the last week and he is now turning his anger to our other children. Telling them to do things that aren't safe, daring the 5 year old to jump from a taller branch on a tree, to take their helmet off when riding a bike etc.

I now can't leave them alone due to my worries over their safety.

DH is trying his best but is a lot more torn than I am, he is worrying about 3 children and at the moment I'm only worried about 2.

Im scared how much further this will go, he has already told DH i pushed him out of a car when he fell at school. Thankfully in that case there was an accident log at school, but what if he starts going this more and I then risk losing my other children due to SS involvement.

He is even manipulative in family therapy, he lies to our counsellor and I'm worried he is doing the same in his private sessions with a different therapist.

Leaving DH is a last resort, mainly because I love the pants off him, plus even if I left he'd get the kids and the issue would persist with DSS just less of the time. At least with 2 of us in the house it's easier to make sure they're not alone, although it's not foolproof

Sorry that was longer than planned, I'd be grateful for any guidance or advise on how to get through this

Didn’t want to read and run.
can you share all of this with your therapist? I’ll DM you on the other stuff! 💐💐💐

DH is overcompensating and DSS feeds off this

Why was your family therapist suggesting you over attach to DSS to make him feel secure with you instead of focusing on your DH's behaviour first? I can't see things getting better until your DH sorts this out.

Don't be worried about switching therapist if you need to, I had sessions with a couple of different counsellors until I found one who was right for me.

I've started individual therapy and have raised a lot of this, she is great but has said with my DSS background it will be a long process.

I'm just so stuck, I actually really enjoy spending time with DSS when he isn't trying to harm or manipulate people

I also understand where this behaviour is coming from, he has essentially lost his mother, his home and is dealing with so much change and reacting to that. But I don't know how to balance the knowing why he is doing it with how to fix it. Or if it's even fixable, I felt myself wondering the other day whether he was just evil. And I hated myself for that

Both sides are being tackled at the same time

DH has individual sessions with the family therapist so can continue the him side of this separately

He feels a need to protect DSS, which is natural, especially with how much has happened. But is struggling to balance this with everything else going on.

He has said he feels out of place, and I get that. I'd feel like a 5th wheel if I had to randomly start living with another family.

Might there be an option to see the family therapist without DSS to discuss the issues between you and DH as it sounds as if DSS is in need of boundaries and they need to be clear and consistent between you? Most 10 year olds will try to play sides off against the middle occasionally if they think they can get away with it even without the traumatic circumstances your DSS is in.

This is definitely an option although on the boundaries point it's hard as we still have SS involvement and they're very keen on us not rushing DSS into 'conformity'

As it's a huge adjustment anyway, let alone going from no boundaries to all the boundaries one expects in a 'normal' family home.

We are consistent with our rules and back each other up, it's when DSS accuses me or the kids of things where I think he can sense a weakness in DH. As he will defend his son, understandably, but I think DSS sees this as dad is fully on side and we are the enemy.

DH desperately wants DSS to be happy, and feel welcome and included and I think this is where the issues lie, as the longer this goes on I'm getting less and less attached to him, which I know will make things worse. If DH senses I don't like his son (not there yet but I can imagine getting there soon), I can see that making DH even more defensive of him.

I asked SS about the other options for living arrangements the other week and DH was really upset, they're aware of the issues we have been having and I just wanted to ask, if things got worse, if he had other family on his mothers side he could live with. I know that was probably a shitty move as it just helped DSS when he next accused me of a slight, as DH thought I wanted him out the house.

Gah

I feel like you have several different issues and you are trying to solve them through the family counselling. I don’t think it will work.

Basically, all the attention is in your dss, fair enough.
He has counselling alone and you have family counselling FOR HIM.

But what you are describing about your DH assuming you dint like his ds or him not supporting you etc… is about your relationship. One that as never planned where he has a child he didn’t know about but you also didn’t know about. What missing here is support for you as a couple to support in the transition and to help you deal with the ‘you are putting him first. I’m the 5th wheel of the cart and I feel pushed aside’.
From what you describe these are not thing that would or should be discussed with your dss who will feed from that. But you need a chat together about the impact of him trying to set you up (wether it’s lying, stealing money and putting it your ourse etc….) and what you together are happy to cope with.
Because the reality is that I’m pretty sure your DH would not react in the same way if HE was in the receiving end of the lies/being set up!
And you need to find a new balance between yourselves to be able to deal with a very stressful situation. Otherwise, yes I can see your dss making you split 😢😢

This worries me hugely:

"We are consistent with our rules and back each other up, it's when DSS accuses me or the kids of things where I think he can sense a weakness in DH. As he will defend his son, understandably, but I think DSS sees this as dad is fully on side and we are the enemy."

and

"he has already told DH i pushed him out of a car when he fell at school. Thankfully in that case there was an accident log at school"

Are you saying that your DH would have believed DSS over you if it weren't for the accident log? If so then why is he still with you? (Just be be clear, I'm not questioning your innocence)

Back then, when that incident happened no, and he didn't when DSS first told him (obviously didn't make that clear to DSS more a 'ah ok, I'm sorry you were hurt but I'm going to have to have a look at what happened here as helpwanted doesn't seem the type to push children out of a car')

Now however since things have soured, I am not 100% he would instantly believe me over DSS no. As back then I wasn't as jaded towards DSS.

Which is awful to think about.

At the moment the relationship has deteriorated between DSS and I, and honestly if the shoe was on the other foot I'm not sure I'd instantly believe a spouse who has made it clear they're worried about a child living with them over the child themselves depending on how believable the lie was. DH knows I'd never harm any child physically but the little emotional abuse lies are where I really worry.

It's so hard as I can understand why this is all happening, but understanding it is only 20% of the battle. I'm following the family therapist and SS advice, as is DH. But it doesn't seem to be working. I know rationally this will be a long journey, he has only been here 5 months, but I'm worried if things don't improve what's going to happen with DH and I, and the other children.

I was tempted to set a nanny cam up to catch DSS being awful to his siblings to try and show DH just how bad it is.

Yeah I think if DH was the one being 'framed' for want of a better word things would be a lot different

The issue is he doesn't see these issues as around him, DSS is an angel, it's 'yes mummy and daddy' this, and 'it's such a lovely meal mummy thank you' that

He is manipulative and I then sound like the crazy person for saying he hates me.

DH believes me, on the most part although sometimes thinks our middle child is exaggerating when he comes and tells us what his older brother has done or said. But I don't think he realises how cold and calculating his son can be as it's his tone when doing these things that really scares me. Cold almost.

I think your dh does needs to see the worst of his ds. The safety and emotional well-being of his other 2 dc is important also!! Before ss are even more involved!
You also need absolute clarification from dh that your version of events will never ever be questioned... Especially in front of dss. It is actually quite damaging to a dc to be The Golden One as it is to be The Scapegoat imo.

If you put a nanny cam, you should let your DH know. And put it as a way to support dss better as you can then both come up with a plan if something happens if that makes sense.

If you don’t tell him and then bring the video as a proof of how awful dss is, you’ll. end up with a huge breach of trust on your DH pov.

And YY about making it about the well-being of his other two dcs too.
If not you, He has to take them into account too!

Thankfully he never questions my version in front of DSS, nor our 5 year olds.

But I'm worried as things get worse this might change so will definitely have the chat with him and make that line really clear

I lightly raised it with DH last month and he wasn't keen, but I will do so again as things have got worse since then and hopefully he will be more susceptible to it

His concern is he doesn't want his son to feel spied on in his own home, especially when he doesn't yet feel 'wanted' there

Honestly I'd let your DH know you're beginning to feel 'not wanted' or believed here and that this is throwing a hand grenade into your marriage. He needs to have your back, you can support DSS together more easily with a solid relationship. If he doesn't support you I'd be letting him know I'd be considering all my options to protect everybody, including separating.

This happened to my best friend and in the end her DSS ended up burning her DS with a hair dryer. He had convinced the school it was his SM who was abusive and she almost lost all of her kids because of his manipulation so they ended up separating. Her ex now doesn't bother with his younger kids because he doesn't want to cause any more upset for DSS.

I really hope your situation doesn't end up like that. My friend held on for years. She ended up videoing herself to prove she wasn't harming him and taking pictures of his food to prove she was feeding him the same as the other kids. She was demented in the end. Good luck OP.

I think you have to protect your younger children.

DSS is only a child but he is being allowed to behave in a manipulative manner by your DH. DSS doesn't want you or the other children around. Harsh as it seems your DH has to choose. This cannot go on. You were right to ask if he could live elsewhere. I would insist upon it if it gets any worse.

There is a book you must read - “A to Z of therapeutic parenting” by Sarah Naish. She is AMAZING and an adoptive parent herself.

good luck x

This is exactly my fear

He has already learned that if he makes claims there are follow on actions, that benefit him

As when he makes disclosures of course his school etc. need to act on them

But he doesn't understand the long term consequences, or maybe he does and doesn't give a shit about them

He actually likes his siblings, it's just me he wants gone, and knows the way to do this is by now trying to harm them. He hasn't actively hurt them yet, but tries to manipulate them into doing dangerous things. Due to their ages they're very susceptible to this too

God I feel for you so much. It’s like the storyline in desperate housewives and that ended very badly.

Your number one responsibility is to your own very young and vulnerable children. They have to come first to you. I know leaving is a last resort but you’ve got to keep it in mind. And I understand the fear of DH having unsupervised access to them with DSS which would scare the shit out of me tbh but it’s a bridge I’d cross down the line.

He’s already endangering them and lying about you physically abusing him. He’s young and had an awful time but his behaviour risks you losing your own children. That’s fucking massive and worthy of serious consideration.

May seem an aside but why is he calling you mummy? Would he accept you more of you were just ‘Susan’. Does he see you as usurping his own mother and therefore more of a challenge to him?

He only does it in front of DH

To make it look like I'm crazy for saying he doesn't like me

When DH is out of earshot it's back to my normal first name

Even during our family therapy sessions he keeps it up, trying to also manipulate the therapist into thinking the issues I raise are nonsense

Thank you for this

I think DSS's social worker might have mentioned it before too so will definitely have a look on Amazon tonight

Feel like I need to buy the box set and see how it turned out, although it might not make me feel better if you say it ended badly!

My biggest fear is him doing something to me, as I'm worried the longer this goes on he might resort to more violent solutions to his biggest problem (me!)

Part of me wonders, since he actually does like his siblings (or so he says) whether separating would remove me as his target and then he is nice to them if they're all with DH - but it's a risk and I'm not sure I'm ready to take that risk yet.

I know it's not possible but if someone could tell me this will last another year then be fine, I'd suck it up and go through the motions, my fear is it will never get better and DH will start resenting me for continually moaning about his son.