Desperate - manipulative DSS, living with us permanently

[Helpwanted1]

I'm so desperate for help and I want to see if anyone on here can advise or even if they've gone through something similar.

I have 2 children with my DH, they're 3 and 5 He has an older son from a short term relationship who is nearly 10.

DH wasn't told about his son for a good few years, as his mother thought another man was his father. This came out after a DNA test 3 years ago.

Unfortunately DSS's mother has always had problems, they've come to a head and after SS involvement we now have DSS living with us full time and will be for the foreseeable future.

When he moved in as SS suggested we started family and individual therapy for DSS, this is a huge change for him, especially since he has only known his father for a few years, and they were building contact for a year of that. He has a new house, living full time with siblings (he was an only with his DM) and they lived a chaotic lifestyle, not many rules, no bed time etc.

We have tried to manage this as best we can and are being flexible with our house rules to help with the transition but he has developed a skill in manipulation and I'm struggling to deal with it.

DH is overcompensating and DSS feeds off this, if I say he can't watch TV whilst we are eating dinner he will tell DH I've shouted at him and made him feel unwelcome. DSS stole some money from DH and hid it in my purse, he fell at school and told DH I pushed him out of the car.

I've spoken about this in our therapy sessions and it seems DSS wants his father to himself and I'm a barrier to this. Again I totally understand his emotions but I'm the one bearing the brunt of this.

Our family therapist suggested I over attach to DSS to make him feel secure with me and therefore doesn't want me to leave. But he is taking this too far, when we go out together 1-1 he will ask for the most expensive toys, foods on the menu at lunch etc.

Things have taken a turn for the worst over the last week and he is now turning his anger to our other children. Telling them to do things that aren't safe, daring the 5 year old to jump from a taller branch on a tree, to take their helmet off when riding a bike etc.

I now can't leave them alone due to my worries over their safety.

DH is trying his best but is a lot more torn than I am, he is worrying about 3 children and at the moment I'm only worried about 2.

Im scared how much further this will go, he has already told DH i pushed him out of a car when he fell at school. Thankfully in that case there was an accident log at school, but what if he starts going this more and I then risk losing my other children due to SS involvement.

He is even manipulative in family therapy, he lies to our counsellor and I'm worried he is doing the same in his private sessions with a different therapist.

Leaving DH is a last resort, mainly because I love the pants off him, plus even if I left he'd get the kids and the issue would persist with DSS just less of the time. At least with 2 of us in the house it's easier to make sure they're not alone, although it's not foolproof

Sorry that was longer than planned, I'd be grateful for any guidance or advise on how to get through this

My fear for you is the same. You’re not far off hormones and the teen years adding to your woes with him. He only wants his dad, they’ll both be wanting to make up for the many lost years. You and your DC are an obstacle to him getting what he wants and that ours you all in danger. It makes me feel queasy, can’t imagine how awful it must be for you.

Don’t watch the show. The SD burnt herself with hair straighteners and told her dad and social services her SM did it and SM was nearly arrested and taken away from her kids. That was after telling the younger DC to do dangerous things that got them injured.

This sounds really tough OP. I have to say that my first response when I saw this was "cameras". I understand the challenges that brings but your DH has to accept that one of two things is happening:

1. you are treating DSS poorly/saying horrible things to DSS; or

2. you are behaving entirely appropriately and DSS is fabricating these accusations.

I'm not in any way doubting your account but your DH will have to accept that both you and DSS cannot be telling the truth about this and if he can't/won't fully believe in your version of events then there needs to be some external monitoring of what is happening or you won't be able to be alone with DSS.

With the additional need to protect yourself in order to safeguard your relationship with your own DC I'd be wanting the protection of evidence that can't be doubted or manipulated.

I really hope you can find a way forward for all of you, including DSS who is obviously pretty traumatised by everything that has happened in his past.

I don’t buy into the thing that every child that does bad things has deeper needs that need healing or whatever. This kid is horrible. Some kids are just little shits.

Plenty of children go through trauma without doing evil things to other people and manipulating a whole group of adults.

I don’t know what the answer is. But if possible I would leave and take my kids with me. Nip the situation in the bud. But if they’re his kids too..? I really don’t know. I think I’d rather be there than worry what he was doing to them from afar.

I highly doubt the kid will become the Angel you all want him to be just by you not being there.

One idea is to refuse to be alone with him without another adult at any time. Then he can never make anything up about you or hurt you and lie about it.

Oh god yeah that will be too close to home!

After the great advise on this so far I'm putting together a list of minimum requirements for us to keep trying to work this through, including the cameras - as I'm starting to doubt myself sometimes as he is so convincing when he lies

Thankfully DH doesn't doubt his son is making this stuff up, it's more how serious the lies are if that makes sense

As he doesn't see how DSS looks, acts, and the tone he used when making his threats.

I'm going to speak to him about the cameras again, as I hope it hammers home how serious and concerning this is.

Probably going to have to go down the it's cameras or I leave path but somethings got to give.

That’s a good step. I think it’s time to worry less about what people think of you. You can’t fix this by pretending to be his mum or to love him as your own. You can’t compensate for his upbringing to date or the horrendous actions of his mother.

You can’t convince DH you’re a good person doing your best if he’s wilfully ignoring the evidence in front of him.

Start putting yourself and your children first. No one else will. Be honest with yourself first and then anyone else you interact with as to your personal limits. I’d start making an escape plan just so you’ve got one. Imagine you have to live separately and get a plan in place.

Keep a written record of incidents, share them with the therapists you’re all seeing. Don’t be afraid to leave if you have to.

Your dss is behaving very classically like your expect a child with poor attachment to behave.

When you're all together eating there is no threat as such. He sort of that group. He doesn't need to test either of your love for him because he's the - with his Laurent's and siblings enjoy8ng that time with him.

When you and dh are separate he feels that need to test that love and boundaries. It goes from parents and siblings and me as a group to brothers and their mum. No dad for me and he's not equal (in his mind) in this group.

Therefore he has to then test his dads love for him by telling these lies. But it also tests his dads love for you and helps him formulate where he stands in your shared relationship.

But he's also testing your love for him. He needs to know he can push and push and that won't falter. Especially so because he lost his biological mum. You are his mum now and he needs to feel safe and secure in that attachment.

That's why they would have said to over attach.

What can help is praise every single little thing he does that is behaviour and language you want from him.

Ask him to do little jobs (maybe lay the table) and tell h8m how glad you are to have him there to do big boy jobs as his brothers are too little still to help. Make him feel special and appreciated and actually more able than them but without using false narrative if that makes sense.

The closer his attachment forms the more he'll push you away and try and divide and conquer. The more you ignore the behaviour and focus on the attachment the more secure he'll feel and the behaviour will naturally change for the better.

I work with children with attachment difficulties. When they push me away they are calling me all sorts of names and making accusations. When they are calm and I talk to them, acknowledge their feelings and explain why they can't behave that way and give them the tools to behave differently they don't want me to leave them!

Honestly - we can do from them screaming I'm a fucking cunt and they wish I'd die to wanting to eat lunch in my office with me in a 10 minute turnaround.

These children are all around your ds age.

So when he said about the car push it would help if your dh said something like. "I will need to talk to DW. That doesn't sound like something she'd do as she loves you and wouldn't want you hurt"

Then you can say "sorry to hear you think I pushed you from the car. But I would never do that and would never hurt you because I love you".

You cannot call him an out and out liar. That becomes tit for tat. But you can reassure him.

He knows deep down if he makes to big accusations he'll be taken away. He doesn't want that. He wants reassurance and security. He wants to know you're both on his side.

But it's bloody difficult. I know. And you have to dig into your deepest reserves sometimes but when you get there it really is rewarding and you tend to end up with a very loving kid who just wants to be loved.

I have worked with children who sound just like your stepson. Their behaviour can be extremely manipulative, hurtful towards their siblings, lying about lots of situations and laying blame on others. They have been rejected by one parent, and now push the limits with others who are caring for them, be it step parents, teachers, support staff. It is learned behaviour that is a result of the adverse experiences they have lived through. Yes, it’s true that not all children with the same background go on to be so challenging, but it’s extremely common. They are not ‘evil’ children.
OP, you have been thrust into this situation with no say in the matter and it’s incredibly difficult for you all. Many foster / adoption placements of children who can be challenging break down because there just isn’t the support out there for them or their carers.
Your DH has got to stop feeling sorry / guilty for his son and you both have to work seamlessly together to bring about positive change. You need to push the social worker to signpost you both to an effective parenting programme. Ultimately, you did not sign up for this, and if you think the only way forward for your children is to walk away, then that is what you must do.

This is an excellent post OP. I know in your situation with your children and yourself to take care of it can be really hard to navigate or even have compassion for your DSS position but he is deeply, deeply traumatised and his behaviour is typically in kids with poor attachment. He is testing you. He is seeing if you are for keeps and you made the point that he has developed a skill for being manipulative and that hits the nail on the head. In order to ensure his survival he has learned how to manipulate. The only way to reverse that is for him to learn he will survive better without doing that stuff.

I get nanny cams all over the house and record what your DSS is doing and saying to you and the other children. Your husband needs to see what his child is doing and saying to you and the younger kids.

Bring video evidence of what this child is doing and saying to you and your kids to social services, family therapist ect and tell them your not staying around to put up with this.

You have all been working around DSS and his needs. Meanwhile he is lashing out at you verbally, trying to get the other kids in trouble or trying to get them to do thing that will injury them.
Along with that he is bad mouthing you to his therapist ect.
That child does not want you around. They are use to doing what they like and when they like. Now suddenly they are in a house with rules and they don't like it.

Your husband needs to be told he has a choice of either dealing properly with his son now or watching him getting worse as he gets older. In a few years time he could be drinking, using drugs or in trouble with the police.

I tell your husband that unless he steps up and sorts his son out that you will be gone out of the house in the next 3 months. I also tell your husband that if you leave the house social services will be told why by you.

Its not fair on you to be left trying to deal with a child who is lashing out because of a change in their circumstances. It not fair on your younger children either if he is telling them to do bad things to get them in trouble with you or getting them to do things that will hurt them.
He could end up doing something to injury one of your kid's.

Plenty of children go through trauma without doing evil things to other people and manipulating a whole group of adults

True.

But plenty don't go through trauma and can behave the same way.

This isn't about how he's behaving but what that behaviour is communicating.

In this case it's a need for security and attachment.

OP something else stuck out for me but I can't find it. You said something about when you tell your family therapist stuff he argues and lies.

Think about it. He's 10 years own and his life has been turned upside down. How do you think he feels sat in a room when the now mother figure he has is saying all the negative stuff about what he's done? Of course he lies and denies. He doesn't want to feel worse than he currently does. He wants to know you love him.

Someone suggested therapy alone and I really think that would help and family therapy needs to be more positive about moving forward rather than a list of all the negatives he's done.

If he makes up a lie and you're asked about it just say you have no recollection of that happening. The more he tries to prove untruths the more he'll have to remember those lies (which he won't do!) and the more he'll eventually realise it's too much effort and it won't push you away or get him anything more than he wants.

Thank you for this

I'm so grateful for all the amazing responses to this post, actually making me a bit emotional as was worried I'd be called an evil step mother or something.

Will definitely email our social worker about the class you've mentioned, trying to keep everything in writing atm as they're getting a bit iffy remembering when I've raised concerns recently.

@itsgettingweird

Ah sorry, I meant he lies in the family therapy about quite basic things

We don't raise these issues in the joint sessions with him there, we have 15 mins after each session just us with the family therapist to debrief on anything mentioned, and that's when I bring up the bigger issues we are facing with his behaviour at home.

During sessions together it's more lying about small things that make me look bad, for example he will say he is feeling more down than usual this week because 'mummy got my brothers an ice cream and refused to get me one because I spoke about my other mummy' this is a total fabrication, on the day in question we didn't even go out for ice cream at all! and brought on just by the therapist asking 'how has this week been for you'

I'm trying to find ways to validate his feelings whilst also defending the fact I'm not a child eating monster which is hard and I don't know how to do this without sounding like a loon sometimes

Thank you so much for this

I've purchased the book recommended by PP around therapeutic parenting and joined their FB group and it looks like a lot of helpful guidance on attachment issues so this post has really given me a new angle to investigate and read up as much as a physically can on.

Thank you as well for the examples on what to say when these accusations are thrown, as it's been something I've struggled with greatly - will definitely put this into place next time (as there will be a next time)

There is a really good book called “Building the Bonds of Attachment” by Dan Hughes. I would really recommend it to you - I think you’ll find it really helpful.

(Apologies if it’s already been suggested - didn’t have time to RTFT)

Your situation reminds me of many adoptive families I know. Of course in this case there is a biological link with your husband but apart from that it’s very similar.

Your SS seems to have all the signs of disordered attachments, as PP have said. And his background story is textbook.

I think you are right to be very VERY careful of your own safety and that of your young children. You are all at risk from physical or other assaults from this child but more so from the fall out from any allegations.

Are you able to ensure that your younger children are never left alone with him? I’m concerned to hear that you are often caring for your SS and your own children alone . Can your husband change his job to be around more often and do more of the care of his own child?

I’m very concerned about the untrue things that your SS is saying. I know people think that social workers will not remove young children in this situation because they know that the older child is “ troubled “ and has a history of saying things that people know are not accurate.

But that is categorically NOT the case. Your step son is already building up a plausible story of how you are emotionally and physically abusing him. I can assure you that his word will be believed over that of your children of 3 and 5.

Im not saying this to scare you. I’m saying it because child protection and safeguarding are important.

Can I ask of your own job involves contact with children or vulnerable adults in any way ?

Much less of a challenge but a friend of mine had huge difficulty with her son when she remarried when he was 10. Everything was going well under she had 2 children with her husband. She wouldn't have married him if it wasn't. Her ex had passed away, even though they were seperate which further added to the difficulties.

Son turned on step father in a similar manner to what you are describing once his siblings came along. He felt he was on the edge of the new family when previously he was very secure with just him and his mum. The lies, manipulation and trying to play her and her husband against each other etc.

The advice they were given was so similar to @itsgettingweird has outlined. Basically the step father was told to praise pretty much everything, minimise the bad behaviour and to spend more 1 on 1 time together.

Suggesting they organise a movie night to surprise mum when the younger two were in bed. Bringing him with him to hardware store explaing the little ones were too young but he needs his help. Stopping off for an ice cream on the way back etc. Helping with washing the car, showing him how to check the old water etc. Things that he wouldn't neccessarily do with his mum & his siblings were too young to do.

Now it did take years before they settled as a family but they did what they had to do. The one difference I notice from your situation is that her and her new husband were absolutely united in that they would do everything they could to fix things together as splitting up was never going to be an option. You both really need to be on the same page to turn things around. The child can only play divide and conquer if he knows you aren't on the same page all the time.

That's him trying to find his place.

He probably wants to know that actually it's ok to talk about his other mum.

I'd tell him this. "Oh dss. You can always talk about your other mum. In fact - why don't we have ice cream together later and you can tell me anything you want".

But his lies are a call for help and reassurance.

I know it's difficult when you want to raise your eyebrows and say "that's not true is it?"

But he'll be convinced it is true. Or argue it is.

You have to trust that the therapists and SS are aware about the attachment and the behaviour he's exhibiting is attachment and will take what he says with a pinch of salt.

Thank you! Will add it to my Amazon order tonight

My job doesn't involve vulnerable people, I WFH so a lot of the after school shift I take on with all 3 children

DH is home by 6:30 so after then I have another pair of eyes in the house, and the faux love begins from DSS - which although I know it's false is a nice break after usually hours of being spoken to like shit.

It's mainly during our 1-1 times he makes the worst allegations and school drop off (his is still at his old school as SS didn't want to transition too much when he moved in) which is so hard as I know why the therapist suggested them, but it leaves me vulnerable to him making things up.

Yes it's very hard and at the start I definitely didn't get the reaction part right, as I was so concerned people would believe him and take my other children away.

I'm going to have to trust as you say the experts in this situation and take a leap of faith and just hope the allegations aren't taken seriously enough to put my other children in jeopardy.

I have spoken to DH tonight and he has agreed to the cameras for our protection if the allegations continue

I have been here myself op, so can totally relate.
I too, agree with the pp who said some children are just "horrible". In my situation the lies got so extreme and dangerous I refused to be alone with the child. In the end ,no matter how ridiculous the lies, it seemed it was easier for ex partner to believe (or pretend to believe) his child rather than deal with the reality. You really have a battle on your hands op and I wish you luck.
( Totally agree with the nanny cam idea, if for no other reason than to keep yourself right)