Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Step-parenting

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

Original poster

Desperate - manipulative DSS, living with us permanently

101 replies

Helpwanted1 · 01/09/2022 14:00

I'm so desperate for help and I want to see if anyone on here can advise or even if they've gone through something similar.

I have 2 children with my DH, they're 3 and 5 He has an older son from a short term relationship who is nearly 10.

DH wasn't told about his son for a good few years, as his mother thought another man was his father. This came out after a DNA test 3 years ago.

Unfortunately DSS's mother has always had problems, they've come to a head and after SS involvement we now have DSS living with us full time and will be for the foreseeable future.

When he moved in as SS suggested we started family and individual therapy for DSS, this is a huge change for him, especially since he has only known his father for a few years, and they were building contact for a year of that. He has a new house, living full time with siblings (he was an only with his DM) and they lived a chaotic lifestyle, not many rules, no bed time etc.

We have tried to manage this as best we can and are being flexible with our house rules to help with the transition but he has developed a skill in manipulation and I'm struggling to deal with it.

DH is overcompensating and DSS feeds off this, if I say he can't watch TV whilst we are eating dinner he will tell DH I've shouted at him and made him feel unwelcome. DSS stole some money from DH and hid it in my purse, he fell at school and told DH I pushed him out of the car.

I've spoken about this in our therapy sessions and it seems DSS wants his father to himself and I'm a barrier to this. Again I totally understand his emotions but I'm the one bearing the brunt of this.

Our family therapist suggested I over attach to DSS to make him feel secure with me and therefore doesn't want me to leave. But he is taking this too far, when we go out together 1-1 he will ask for the most expensive toys, foods on the menu at lunch etc.

Things have taken a turn for the worst over the last week and he is now turning his anger to our other children. Telling them to do things that aren't safe, daring the 5 year old to jump from a taller branch on a tree, to take their helmet off when riding a bike etc.

I now can't leave them alone due to my worries over their safety.

DH is trying his best but is a lot more torn than I am, he is worrying about 3 children and at the moment I'm only worried about 2.

Im scared how much further this will go, he has already told DH i pushed him out of a car when he fell at school. Thankfully in that case there was an accident log at school, but what if he starts going this more and I then risk losing my other children due to SS involvement.

He is even manipulative in family therapy, he lies to our counsellor and I'm worried he is doing the same in his private sessions with a different therapist.

Leaving DH is a last resort, mainly because I love the pants off him, plus even if I left he'd get the kids and the issue would persist with DSS just less of the time. At least with 2 of us in the house it's easier to make sure they're not alone, although it's not foolproof

Sorry that was longer than planned, I'd be grateful for any guidance or advise on how to get through this

OP posts:
declutteringmymind · 01/09/2022 19:35

I'd put a nanny cam in. Tell DH that until he settles in and stops making allegations, you'd rather everything was recorded when you are alone with him.

Cascais · 01/09/2022 19:38

That is a terrible idea

TryingToBeLogical · 01/09/2022 20:19

Is there a new evening/weekend activity you could take your 2 children to, to get them out of the house more often? Perhaps you’ve suddenly realized, they need to go to the library more regularly, you just heard a story time for preschoolers has started up...

Or they’ve made a friend who Invited them to join a particular recreational sports course. And how nice, if you take the younger ones to the boring thing that’s too young for the SS, the SS will coincidentally have a bit more time alone with his father for now.

Does it feel like you’re having to escape your own home to guarantee their safety? Yes. But there is no easy answer here.
The youngers may not be your husband’s priority, for now or for quite some time.

You would have to be subtle talking about and arranging something for you all to get out of the house to mask the fact you are trying to keep the kids separated...but just something to think about. Sometimes you have to put safety first and explain later.

I’m glad your husband has agreed to the cameras. Ditto, it should be arranged so that you are not alone with your stepson for now if possible.

When a person is damaged and is lashing out and harming others, what are the rights of the others affected? How much abuse, damage, and extra work should they be expected to take on? I don’t think the fact that someone is damaged gives them the right to harm and destroy others. No matter how much empathy you may have for that damaged person, you should not be expected to sacrifice yourself or your own children. You are a person, not a resource or a support object.

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 20:33

There’s some fantastic advice on here but FUCK ME, there’s also some shitty advice and provocative comments coupled with faux-sounding concern.
“I hope your situation doesn’t end up like the one on Desperate Housewives or my friend’s where her DSS convinced social services were abusive”. Yes, we all hope that, funnily enough.

OP I do really feel for you. a pp mentioned this being similar to an adoption situation and I’d agree. I suggest you post on the adoption board for advice. My DSD had to live with us full time, although because her mother died, and I found these board v helpful.
Lots of experience there and understanding of children, with posters being empathetic of others but still focused first on the child being a traumatised child. None of this “some children are just evil” shit. Yes that’s true, but it only applies when there aren’t first understandable and predictable reasons for the traumatised child’s behaviour.

CandyLeBonBon · 01/09/2022 20:35

Ive got nothing useful to add but I wanted to say that sound like you're doing an amazing job in very tricky circumstances and I hope you make some headway. Flowers

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 20:40

CandyLeBonBon · 01/09/2022 20:35

Ive got nothing useful to add but I wanted to say that sound like you're doing an amazing job in very tricky circumstances and I hope you make some headway. Flowers

Yes, all this too.

KATS71136 · 01/09/2022 20:45

itsgettingweird · 01/09/2022 17:55

Your dss is behaving very classically like your expect a child with poor attachment to behave.

When you're all together eating there is no threat as such. He sort of that group. He doesn't need to test either of your love for him because he's the - with his Laurent's and siblings enjoy8ng that time with him.

When you and dh are separate he feels that need to test that love and boundaries. It goes from parents and siblings and me as a group to brothers and their mum. No dad for me and he's not equal (in his mind) in this group.

Therefore he has to then test his dads love for him by telling these lies. But it also tests his dads love for you and helps him formulate where he stands in your shared relationship.

But he's also testing your love for him. He needs to know he can push and push and that won't falter. Especially so because he lost his biological mum. You are his mum now and he needs to feel safe and secure in that attachment.

That's why they would have said to over attach.

What can help is praise every single little thing he does that is behaviour and language you want from him.

Ask him to do little jobs (maybe lay the table) and tell h8m how glad you are to have him there to do big boy jobs as his brothers are too little still to help. Make him feel special and appreciated and actually more able than them but without using false narrative if that makes sense.

The closer his attachment forms the more he'll push you away and try and divide and conquer. The more you ignore the behaviour and focus on the attachment the more secure he'll feel and the behaviour will naturally change for the better.

I work with children with attachment difficulties. When they push me away they are calling me all sorts of names and making accusations. When they are calm and I talk to them, acknowledge their feelings and explain why they can't behave that way and give them the tools to behave differently they don't want me to leave them!

Honestly - we can do from them screaming I'm a fucking cunt and they wish I'd die to wanting to eat lunch in my office with me in a 10 minute turnaround.

These children are all around your ds age.

So when he said about the car push it would help if your dh said something like. "I will need to talk to DW. That doesn't sound like something she'd do as she loves you and wouldn't want you hurt"

Then you can say "sorry to hear you think I pushed you from the car. But I would never do that and would never hurt you because I love you".

You cannot call him an out and out liar. That becomes tit for tat. But you can reassure him.

He knows deep down if he makes to big accusations he'll be taken away. He doesn't want that. He wants reassurance and security. He wants to know you're both on his side.

But it's bloody difficult. I know. And you have to dig into your deepest reserves sometimes but when you get there it really is rewarding and you tend to end up with a very loving kid who just wants to be loved.

I find this really helpful - foster carer so
experience much of this!

Sorry too hear of the time you are having OP

AnneLovesGilbert · 01/09/2022 20:46

I expressed no “faux concern”, it’s very genuine concern for OP and her young and vulnerable children.

There are some very wise and insightful posts from people with lots of valuable experience and OP has had some amazing advice. I’m not sure telling her she has to say she loves her step son is exactly right. She probably doesn’t, she hasn’t know him long, he’s only lived there 5 months, he probably wouldn’t believe her, and from her POV he seems to be doing everything in his power to ruin her life and harm her and her children.

I’m validating her understandable concerns and reminding her she doesn’t have to stay in this situation if it becomes intolerable. She’s within her rights to prioritise her own two children. While no one asked for this to happen it’s not up to her to sacrifice herself to try and save it.

Motnight · 01/09/2022 20:46

He doesn't like your children if he's encouraging them to do unsafe things, Op.

I get that you are a good person and dss has been through a terrible time. But I honestly can't see things improving for your family as your dss heads into becoming a teenager. And what are your kids learning from all this?

itsgettingweird · 01/09/2022 20:58

Motnight · 01/09/2022 20:46

He doesn't like your children if he's encouraging them to do unsafe things, Op.

I get that you are a good person and dss has been through a terrible time. But I honestly can't see things improving for your family as your dss heads into becoming a teenager. And what are your kids learning from all this?

That's not true.

It's very common for children with tag Jenny difficulties to get together in a group with others (in schools for example) or in families recruit the others.

This again comes from the need to feel in control.

If he can get them to follow him doing things they know not to do he feels powerful. He did that. He got them to listen to him. He was important.

Honestly - you need to have a very good and deep understanding of attachment to understand these behaviours.

We are talking about a 10yo CHILD who discovered they had a dad they knew nothing about 3 years ago and 5 months ago was removed from his primary carer into his dads house - with dads new family.

Imagine feeling like he does now. How does he know what will happen in a day, month or even year or 5? Everything he thought he knew for 7 years if his life has changed.

And remember that's whilst he also was separated from life as we've all known it during covid. So it's likely he's not had those school attachments and regular adults in his life through this either.

My heart actually breaks for that poor boy.

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 20:59

@AnneLovesGilbert you weren't who I was thinking of with faux concern even though you said the Desperate Housewives comment, I couldn't remember posters names or who said what. But I'm familiar with you as a poster and know that your concern would have been genuine.

I agree that I don't think its good advice for the the OP to tell her DSS she loves him, although in some of the excellent advice given on here, "love" could easily be swapped with "cares about" with diluting the point.

Original poster
Helpwanted1 · 01/09/2022 21:07

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 20:33

There’s some fantastic advice on here but FUCK ME, there’s also some shitty advice and provocative comments coupled with faux-sounding concern.
“I hope your situation doesn’t end up like the one on Desperate Housewives or my friend’s where her DSS convinced social services were abusive”. Yes, we all hope that, funnily enough.

OP I do really feel for you. a pp mentioned this being similar to an adoption situation and I’d agree. I suggest you post on the adoption board for advice. My DSD had to live with us full time, although because her mother died, and I found these board v helpful.
Lots of experience there and understanding of children, with posters being empathetic of others but still focused first on the child being a traumatised child. None of this “some children are just evil” shit. Yes that’s true, but it only applies when there aren’t first understandable and predictable reasons for the traumatised child’s behaviour.

Thank you for the tip on the adoption board

Will have a look into that as I agree with other posters, the more I read about it, it does somewhat mirror an adoption pathway with the attachment issues, joining a new family etc. - just with one parent not wanting to become an adoptive parent (god that sounds awful)

I feel SS didn't really prepare us very well for this move, and it will be due to needing to move quickly to get DSS into a safe home - but fuck me I just wish we had some preparation before this all went down

OP posts:
Original poster
Helpwanted1 · 01/09/2022 21:10

CandyLeBonBon · 01/09/2022 20:35

Ive got nothing useful to add but I wanted to say that sound like you're doing an amazing job in very tricky circumstances and I hope you make some headway. Flowers

Thank you

Everyone on here has been so kind and given such great advice

Really made me feel better for posting and 'letting it all out'

OP posts:
DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 21:16

You’re welcome OP. Therapeutic parenting, attachment disorder and trauma are all discussed there. I have a biological child with autism and trauma from school situations so I still often read the adoption boards as some of the techniques used are also recommended for children with autism.

It does sound like SS didn’t prepare you v well at all. How extremely tough, especially as the boy is 10, a tricky age.

itsgettingweird · 01/09/2022 21:17

And think you should keep in posting.

This is and will take a toll on your MH.

You absolutely should and have a right to have a rant behind the scenes.

What's great is you clearly want advice and support and are willing to try it where it works for you.

If we can hold your hand then let us Flowers

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 21:21

Btw not saying you shouldn’t also post here!

But one other reason I thought of why the adoption board would be useful for you: the posters there have experience of SWs and will know what resources you are entitled to and should ask for. Specific courses, therapy for the child, etc There well may be some help you should be getting from SS that you’re not.

Pinkyxx · 01/09/2022 21:21

Echo what others have said, what you're describing is textbook attachment issue / attachment based trauma. My daughter struggles with this for various reasons and it's really hard to not feel '' under attack'' and incredibly exposed. The phrase all behaviour is communication really does apply here and you've had some great replies helping frame all this so I won't repeat what others have said.

The below organization specialize in this and offer family therapy designed to address the kind of issues you mention. There's lots of resources which might be helpful. I found them invaluable alongside the therapeutic work:

beaconhouse.org.uk/?section=welcome-to-beacon-house

HeartofTeFiti · 01/09/2022 21:52

Maybe it would help if your DH did the school runs for your DSS, to minimise the time he is the “odd one out” among just you and his new half siblings, and also to give him that special feeling that his dad will come and pick him up? Perhaps DSS could do after school club and DH could pick him up on the way home from work for example.

I hope everything works out for you. It sounds like SS have done a rubbish job so far in supporting you all.

pottytrainingissue · 01/09/2022 22:36

You mention you are driving him to his new school and that you are alone with him, I would ask your DH to take over this as you are leaving yourself open to allegations with no witnesses in the car etc

Isaidnoalready · 01/09/2022 23:28

pottytrainingissue · 01/09/2022 22:36

You mention you are driving him to his new school and that you are alone with him, I would ask your DH to take over this as you are leaving yourself open to allegations with no witnesses in the car etc

Yes but frame it as a chance to bond some alone time just the two of them not im scared he will tell everyone I hurt him again

NoMoneyHun · 02/09/2022 01:08

DuchessDarty · 01/09/2022 20:33

There’s some fantastic advice on here but FUCK ME, there’s also some shitty advice and provocative comments coupled with faux-sounding concern.
“I hope your situation doesn’t end up like the one on Desperate Housewives or my friend’s where her DSS convinced social services were abusive”. Yes, we all hope that, funnily enough.

OP I do really feel for you. a pp mentioned this being similar to an adoption situation and I’d agree. I suggest you post on the adoption board for advice. My DSD had to live with us full time, although because her mother died, and I found these board v helpful.
Lots of experience there and understanding of children, with posters being empathetic of others but still focused first on the child being a traumatised child. None of this “some children are just evil” shit. Yes that’s true, but it only applies when there aren’t first understandable and predictable reasons for the traumatised child’s behaviour.

Some of us are sharing experiences that happened in real life. Not some fantasy stories to boost what we think the OP should do. My best friend had her life torn apart thanks to her DSS. He should've had early intervention but her ex partner was very unwilling. As a result her son was injured and SHE was accused of abuse that she then had to fight very hard to be cleared from.
This is what the OP needs to be aware of. She needs to think of her own DC first. As selfish as that may seem. No one mentioned desperate housewives 🙄

DuchessDarty · 02/09/2022 01:34

No one mentioned desperate housewives 🙄

Always a good idea to actually check @NoMoneyHun before making such a claim and rolling your eyes.

See:
1)the first para of AnneLG’s post at 17:21
2)the OP’s post of 17:31 saying she’ll have to get the box set and watch it
3)AnneLG’s post of 17:36 describing what happens in that plot line.

HTH

DragonsAndMoons · 02/09/2022 07:12

OP you've had great advice so far.

What I would add is for you to put some proper self care in place if you haven't already. Have one evening a week where dh deals with all the dc once he's home from work and see your friends. Having positive social connections will ground you and make you feel like you again.

Also - have you got a hobby? If not get one. Preferably a healthy active outdoorsy one. Park runs would be good if you got the whole family involved, or swimming. Find something active that you enjoy doing.

You need to put your oxygen mask on first.

Original poster
Helpwanted1 · 02/09/2022 07:22

pottytrainingissue · 01/09/2022 22:36

You mention you are driving him to his new school and that you are alone with him, I would ask your DH to take over this as you are leaving yourself open to allegations with no witnesses in the car etc

My issue is we still have 1-1 time as suggested by the therapist

It's so hard to balance

The need to try and fix this issue, which seems to require being alone with him, whilst also protecting myself from allegations

DH can't do his school drop off either due to work. I WFH so it's so much easier for me to do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Helpwanted1 · 02/09/2022 07:23

Pinkyxx · 01/09/2022 21:21

Echo what others have said, what you're describing is textbook attachment issue / attachment based trauma. My daughter struggles with this for various reasons and it's really hard to not feel '' under attack'' and incredibly exposed. The phrase all behaviour is communication really does apply here and you've had some great replies helping frame all this so I won't repeat what others have said.

The below organization specialize in this and offer family therapy designed to address the kind of issues you mention. There's lots of resources which might be helpful. I found them invaluable alongside the therapeutic work:

beaconhouse.org.uk/?section=welcome-to-beacon-house

Thank you for this link

Will have a look into them today!

OP posts: