Refusing to have DSC

[Nights11]

I'll keep it short!

My husband works in a high pressure job which is under a lot of straight from lack of staff. As such he's having to work emergency night shifts which he doesn't usually do, sometimes staying away from home. It's all a bit of a mess at the moment.

We are struggling to work this around when we have DSC which is 50:50 3 nights one week and 4 the next.

I work long days too in another high pressure environment (law) and at the moment I'm also doing 99% of most things at home with this situation at my husband's work. We share nursery aged children so they are in nursery in the day but I'm collecting after work and then it's home typically as DH is leaving and I'm responsible for everything then on. I'm also having to fit in bits of extra work in the evening once they are in bed just to get things done and basically I'm flat out exhausted too!

Basically the issue is my husband's ex is refusing anything which isn't DSC coming as normal whilst DH is working. He's offered to pay for childcare, he's offered to pay more maintenance, he's offered to have them more when he does get home ect... She works 3 days a week and doesn't do nights so there is no reason they can't stay at her home during the night.

I appreciate its annoying and it means it may be harder for her to make plans but I don't feel the responsibility is mine to then take DSC on the nights / days DH is away.

They are 11&13.

I'm basically flat out refusing, which may sound unreasonable but I am so exhausted and the last thing I want is 2 more children to care for half the week when DH isn't even around most of the time.

Basically I've said if DH isn't here then DSC will need to stay with mum or at her house. It's the holidays, DH has offered to pay for clubs, she works from home 3 days a week and they are old enough not to disturb her if they stay there, as I say he's also offered to pay more maintenance too but she wants them to come here like normal even if DH isn't here.

The older kids would only help and wouldn't require coddling and looking after at all. They can get their own breakfast, entertain the little ones, and run the hoover around. Therefore, I feel that this post is making no sense.

It's great to have a strong work ethic, but to not build some flexibility into your work schedules is counterproductive. Luckily for you, the older children will be able to help with school pick ups, once they are a few years older, so it makes perfect sense to have the siblings altogether and the older ones getting to know the little ones' routines. It could be so easy to see this situation as a positive.

The older kids would only help and wouldn't require coddling and looking after at all. They can get their own breakfast, entertain the little ones, and run the hoover around. Therefore, I feel that this post is making no sense.

Really, you've never encountered 11 and 13 year old's that wouldn't do these things?

Who are these children?

They sound like an urban myth to me.😁

Whilst they technically might be able to do it, whether they would or not is the question.

2 children that age, to feed, drop and care for is not, no work.....well not on my planet anyway.

I think this could be solved by a dammed nanny or some holiday clubs or something. Something that doesn't involve either women being the only available bloody people to look after children if DP isn't available

a third women to do the father’s parenting for him?

a third women to do the father’s parenting for him?

At least she'd be getting paid for her time and labour!

@LilyMarshall there's a big difference between doing childcare for free under the lovely gaze of this what you signed up for when you got married.

And someone who gets paid for exchange of services who may or may not be female.

I'm not saying OPs DH isn't accountable here. I think both parents are mum and dad are accountable to find a solution that doesn't mean someone becomes defaco unpaid childcare. Least of all the closest and easiest to target sm, same with grandparents, aunties ect. They could help but have every right to say no.

I totally get your frustration but the problem here is not the ex, it is your Dh’s failure to make appropriate arrangements for his children for the 50% time they are in his care. It would be nice if his ex was willing to help him out but if she is not she is not. Stop blaming the wrong person here. I am a family mediator and get so frustrated with men who expect the women in their lives to sort out their mess.

@PeanutButterOnToad You are only partly correct in this instance though on the whole I agree with you in principle. The OP’s DH has set a precedent of co-operation and it sounds reasonable for him to expect some in return from his ex.

OP, stand strong against the idea that DSC of this age are no trouble and therefore you should step in. Firstly, these can be great ages but, especially if they like you, the children can be very demanding in their own way. Secondly, it really isn’t your problem especially as you have described the present moment. Give in now and you will be making a rod for your own back.

I think it is time to formalise your contact arrangements legally and to bin the voluntary maintenance. Ex wants it back? She must prove her understanding that co-operation is a two way street. And you should not let this slip. Keep records. Ugly, I know.

After reading alot of the comments you've made OP, it sounds like you're the issue here.

If you didn't want this extra responsibility, then why get with someone who already has children?
You should have got with someone who was childless before you.

It's not their problem that you two decided to have more children.
That's your issue.
You decided to make two more children, on top of the two already here.
That was your decision.

So work is tough at the moment.
Everybody has that from time to time.

They're both high school age, so it's much less hassle than dealing with babies & toddlers.
They'll just entertain themselves.

It's not that you can't, it's that you don't want to.
Which, is entirely you're right - if that's how you feel.

But remember, actions like this have consequences.
Most men would never forgive this.
So you could well be starting the end of your own marriage.

And then there's the children themselves.
They're going to be aware of how you feel.
So don't be bleating about lack of invites to their future important days, such as their graduations, special birthdays, weddings & christenings etc.

Maybe their Mum just wants them to have their usual routine.
Alot of children act up really badly, when this is disturbed.
Routine is often a child's safety net.
So perhaps it actually has nothing to do with being awkward at all.

Plus, maybe they want to see/ spend time with their siblings.
With seemingly no set end date to this change, just exactly how long do you expect everyone else to juggle around you?

They'll be in bed anyway.
And running around dropping off at holiday club, is what you signed up for when you married a man with two children.

If you still feel the same, then maybe you don't want to be a part of this family unit & perhaps it's time for an honest conversation with your husband about divorce.

You're supposed to be a team.
Working together & having each others backs.
Making hard times a bit easier for each other.
But if you're not willing to do that for him, is he really the man for you?

I'm sure your refusal will have him asking similar questions.

I'd say good luck.
But tbh, I don't care about your feelings - you're an adult.
I just hope you don't manage to cause an issue with him and his children's relationship.
And I hope they're not emotionally or mentally effected knowing how you felt & treated them.

With seemingly no set end date to this change, just exactly how long do you expect everyone else to juggle around you?

Juggling around their dad do you mean?

@Malfunctionatdawn you seem to be forgetting that Mum isn’t so concerned about maintaining her children’s routine at her own house when it is not convenient for her. The OP and her DH have stepped in numerous times in the past to help the mum.

She is not now willing to reciprocate, and has not given a reason nearly as compelling as that of the OP who does not owe these children anything. The OP has already gone above and beyond for her DSC. This is a bad time for her.

What a load of ridiculous, misogynistic nonsense.

@Malfunctionatdawn
If you didn't want this extra responsibility, then why get with someone who already has children?
OP has taken on plenty of responsibility for these kids. That doesn't mean she owes everyone a "yes of course" every time they demand something of her.

It's not their problem that you two decided to have more children.That's your issue
OPs children are not the issue. Their mother is willing to look after them, and does so because she is their mother and a parent 24/7.

They're both high school age, so it's much less hassle than dealing with babies & toddlers.They'll just entertain themselves
They can entertain themselves at their mothers house then and their mother can feed them, run them around etc. As it's not any "hassle".

It's not that you can't, it's that you don't want to.Which, is entirely you're right - if that's how you feel
Relieved you can acknowledge this.

But remember, actions like this have. Most men would never forgive this. So you could well be starting the end of your own marriage
Most men could taking a running jump if they think their wife is just there to be the dogsbody to stop his ex being inconvenienced by her own children. Which she chose to have, knowing what she was getting into etc etc.

And then there's the children themselves.They're going to be aware of how you feel
They will obviously be aware their dad was out busting a gut to provide for them while their mother could not be arsed then, won't they?

Maybe their Mum just wants them to have their usual routine
Except when it suits her.

Plus, maybe they want to see/ spend time with their siblings
What they want or don't want cannot alway be the main concern.

And running around dropping off at holiday club, is what you signed up for when you married a man with two children
No, that's what the parents signed up for when they made the child. Nothing about looking after kids is any part of the marriage contract.

If you still feel the same, then maybe you don't want to be a part of this family unit & perhaps it's time for an honest conversation with your husband about divorce
Maybe the mother can just give the kids over full time to their dad, pay them maintenance and then he can change to a less full on job? After all, if she doesn't want to be part of the family unit..

You're supposed to be a team. Working together & having each others backs.Making hard times a bit easier for each other
What's he doing to make OPs life easier.? He's supposed to be foisting yet more domestic work on her according to you.

And I hope they're not emotionally or mentally effected knowing how you felt & treated them
No more so than their own mothers rejection I'm sure.

Totally agree. Are you a stepparent @Malfunctionatdawn ?

And I hope they're not emotionally or mentally effected knowing how you felt & treated them
No more so than their own mothers rejection I'm sure.

I've been thinking this for a while. Posters seem happy to pile on to the OP for not wanting extra time with the DSC, while completely turning a blind eye to the fact that their own mother is fighting against spending more time with them than she's legally obliged to. And from the sounds of what the OP has said about her asking their dad/OP to have them at other times when it's supposed to be her time, it doesn't sound like it's a one-off either. Perhaps those imploring 'won't someone think of the children' might want to examine the DSCs' own mother's apparent attitude in all this.

BINGO!!!

Yes,@feistyoneyouare I am really baffled as to why so many are piling on this particular OP. To me she sounds like a loving, giving DSM who has gone above and beyond already, now needing a reasonably boundary.

Usually MN supports this. I wonder what happened this time?

OP, that’s why my first post was written in such a ….. no nonsense is perhaps the word I want ….. tone. To toughen you up! Please hang in there. You sound like a good SM.

Posters seem happy to pile on to the OP for not wanting extra time with the DSC, while completely turning a blind eye to the fact that their own mother is fighting against spending more time with them than she's legally obliged to.

This isn't true. The mother is "fighting" against spending more time with them at times when the father is effectively legally obliged to do so. It is his time, that's the arrangement. And there is no end date as to when him not being able to have his elder children will end. Nor do we know why exactly she is refusing, as much as a few posters would like to make out that she's keen to shirk her parenting responsibilities.

Some posters seem happy to pile on the ex while completely turning a blind eye to the fact that their own father is fighting against spending time with then when he's legally obliged to do so. To make things worse, they're also completely ignoring the fact that the DSC may want to see their father and them going potentially weeks if not realistically months without much contact with him is not a great situation.

Fortunately most posters see that it is the father who has the responsibility to provide care during his time, either directly or indirectly re childcare options, not the OP nor the ex.

Agreed, @DuchessDarty that ultimately it is the father’s responsibility. But the mother has been wanting things both ways for a long time. I think the money that has been voluntarily paid in maintenance - that is not owed - should be stopped and in the short term used to cover a nanny for the duration of the present crisis.

Oh it's definitely the father's responsibility as he is the one who has double booked his time, but when he's already shouldering over 50% of what it's takes to raise his children it's a brass neck indeed who could argue that the mother is the shining angel who can do no wrong in all this, meanwhile the OP is made out to be some cold, uncaring woman who should not have had her own children if she was not willing to serve her husbands ex.

But @DuchessDarty can you give us a quotation from the OP suggesting that the mother has only been asking for occasional flexibility? Because that is not my sense of her tone; I don’t think either of us can provide evidence; and getting ahead of the facts is not intellectually respectable. In the same vein, what is your evidence that the current situation is likely to go on ‘for weeks on end’?

Refuting these statements - or leaving them open, absent evidence - does not mean buying into your demeaning premises.

I didn't read it as him wanting them 0% of the time. More that he wanted some flexibility in the schedule so he could have them when he's not working (which may or not be his usual days at the moment) i.e. he usually has them Monday nights but is now working then so can he have them Wednesday when he's off instead, that sort of thing. In that case I don't at all think it's unreasonable. I don't think he is suggesting he's not going to have them at all for the foreseeable.

How about sending them to PGL for week or so - they will very likely love it - mine did and it buys you some time

@DuchessDarty
It takes time and money to raise children. He's currently providing 50% of the time and over 50% of the money.
Wouldn't have said thats a particularly low standard but whatever.