18 and still coming every other weekend and lots of holidays

[mommabear2386]

Having a bedroom dilemma we have a 3 bed house and SD 16 (lived here full time for 9 months ) has the small room to herself and my two SS15& 19 have the larger double EOW and half holidays etc some random nights too.

Issue is our Bio som now 4 starts school on sept and has always shared our room so the boys kept there own space etc but I now want to move him into this room permanently and they can still share when over.

I want a double bed with a pullout / trundle underneath. Currently it's bunk beds for the two elder but they are two old for these now.

Issue is the 19 year old is still staying all the time and I kind of figured he would stop / be away at uni so it would only be the 15 year old to cater for in terms of beds.

Any advice??

[aSofaNearYou]

It's not even necessarily true that the parents didn't think of the number of children they have. There is a large subsection of MN posters that could do with understanding that not everybody does base their life decisions around the plan to house their adult children well into their 20s. People do have different, valid approaches to this.

[SpaceshiptoMars]

@aSofaNearYou

Ah, but it's MN, so potential SMs are required to think of all possible outcomes and plan for them before taking on a man with kids!

Did I do this? Erm, no.

Have there been any negative consequences as a result? Naturally!

What am I doing as a result? Plodding on, finding solutions, like I try to do with any setbacks life throws at me.....

[Midlifemusings]

Not all 19 year olds want to spend all their time partyin and socializing. Some are more introverted, into gaming, quiet, not partiers. Not everyone is the same.

Many 19 year olds still like to spend time with family versus only with roommates or living on their own. This teen has two parents who live in separate houses and most parents enjoy having their children around - so the idea he and all his posessions should just stay at his mothers and he should not be at dads other than for short daytime visits - wouldn't sit well with many parents.

I think your best option is to find a solution that doesn't value one child over another - maybe by giving the boys the master bedroom or looking to maximize other spaces in the house so all four children in the family have a space in the house. A 4 year old definitely doesn't need a double bed.

[SpaceshiptoMars]

looking to maximize other spaces in the house so all four children in the family have a space in the house.

Floor plan, floor plan. Bangs spoon on table!

Any landing space, large cupboards, cellar or attic? Garden big enough to do anything useful with? Somewhere you can string a hammock from?!!!

There was an earlier thread about floor to ceiling partioning:
www.diy.com/ranges/building-ranges/alara

That might give some options, depending on room size.

[MumbleAlwaysMumble]

@@SpaceshiptoMars I would have thought the FATHER should have thought about it. It’s not just women who can think about that kind of stuff, plan ahead etc…

I would also thought that, again, the father would have been involved and had something to say about arrangements for his dcs (all of them!).

Why should it be only the OP, as the SM, responsibility to sort this out?

[Midlifemusings]

@MumbleAlwaysMumble

@@SpaceshiptoMars I would have thought the FATHER should have thought about it. It’s not just women who can think about that kind of stuff, plan ahead etc…

I would also thought that, again, the father would have been involved and had something to say about arrangements for his dcs (all of them!).

Why should it be only the OP, as the SM, responsibility to sort this out?

It wouldn't be OPs sole responsibility. But she is the one posting so people are responding to her.

[Youseethethingis1]

so the idea he and all his posessions should just stay at his mothers and he should not be at dads other than for short daytime visits - wouldn't sit well with many parents
This is where some posters struggle, including myself if push came to shove. Should a young adult be following the same contact schedule they did as a child? Do they need overnight care like a young child? Why is it necessary (aside from instances of greater distance) for them to stay overnight still? At what point do we move on from referring to a 19/20/21 year old as a child and realise there is an actual child who has been shoved to the margin for his entire life so far and now needs some space?
It's totally different if we are talking about their home where they live most of the time, as in the DSDs case, but we aren't.

[SpaceshiptoMars]

@MumbleAlwaysMumble

Why should it be only the OP, as the SM, responsibility to sort this out?

C'mon now. Be sensible. Unless we as SMs are absolute heroines, the solution to all and any problems, we shouldn't even exist, should we? 😜

[aSofaNearYou]

What I actually meant wasn't that the dad/step mum might not have thought about it, it was that they MIGHT have thought about it and not decided, as many on here assume they should have done, that the ability to house their children as adults in their 20s was a priority for them. Many parents do but equally many don't. It may not have been a case of simply not considering that if they had another kid they wouldn't be able to house the older one's indefinitely.

[Midlifemusings]

@Youseethethingis1

so the idea he and all his posessions should just stay at his mothers and he should not be at dads other than for short daytime visits - wouldn't sit well with many parents
This is where some posters struggle, including myself if push came to shove. Should a young adult be following the same contact schedule they did as a child? Do they need overnight care like a young child? Why is it necessary (aside from instances of greater distance) for them to stay overnight still? At what point do we move on from referring to a 19/20/21 year old as a child and realise there is an actual child who has been shoved to the margin for his entire life so far and now needs some space?
It's totally different if we are talking about their home where they live most of the time, as in the DSDs case, but we aren't.

HIs family is split across two homes. That is his reality and not by his own choice. He doesn't have one home, he has two homes with some of his family living in one and some living in the other.

Of course he doesn't require overnight care and likely he has a relationship with his family members - it isn't about filling a obligatory contractual contact time.

It is very different to stop by a home where you have no space or possessions. You are then a visitor and taking up the space of others. And you would have SM complaining that he doesn't even live here but keeps coming over and taking up space or hanging about. Then he has to arrange when yhe can come and if it is convenient for people and will they be home and free to engage. Very different from living in a space and interacting with people in a natural way that comes from sharing a space. So the option becomes to meet his dad / siblings outside their home for a dinner or wait for an invite to their home (that he has been told is not his home and he needs to leave). I think you will find that many young adults still spend time at home with family - it isn't that bizarre of an idea. While some parents have a at 18 you are an adult and not welcome to live here anymore, there are also many parents who like having their young adult children around at home, they also enjoy those interactions.

[DarkCharlotte]

so the idea he and all his posessions should just stay at his mothers

Even as a child I didn't keep clothes and possessions at my mum's when I visited at the weekend. I kept all my stuff where I actually lived the majority of the time and just brought what I wanted to wear and use at my mum's with me in a wee suitcase. Don't see the issue with that. I'd have hated (and still do to this day) having my possessions spread over two homes. I really don't see why it's a big deal to keep most of your things in your main home, especially when your secondary home is actually the main home of other children!

[FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander]

But loads of families reorganise bedrooms etc when the eldest child reaches adulthood.

It’s not uncommon for a young adult to lose a bedroom when they go to university - even if they only have one parental home. It happened to loads of us. My mum turned my bedroom into a sewing and painting room the week after I moved into a student flat. It wasn’t a rejection of me, but a recognition that things had changed. I didn’t kick up a fuss.

Imagine if I’d kicked up a fuss if it had been to allow a much younger sibling to have a bedroom and not sleep in his parents’ room any more. I’d have been an absolute brat to object to that!

The circumstances are what they are, and it will be obvious to the 19 year old that the 4 year old does not have a bedroom anywhere. Part of growing up is recognising that things like sleeping on the sofa or a camp bed in the living room so that a 4 year old can have a (still shared!) bedroom is the decent thing to do. It’s not being pushed out of the family.

Framing it all as part of the growing up and leaving school process is a positive way to approach this. It’s a big change of circumstances and supporting him in transitioning to a more adult relationship with his father is a good thing.

[DarkCharlotte]

He doesn't have one home, he has two homes

They aren't equal though. He doesn't have two main homes.

[DarkCharlotte]

I agree with everything fishcakes says.

[Youseethethingis1]

think you will find that many young adults still spend time at home with family - it isn't that bizarre of an idea
I still spend time at my mum and dad's house, yes. But I don't stay overnight. Why is sleeping there necessary to maintain a relationship? DH and I stay overnight at FILs because he lives far away. It's always lovely to see him and step MIL.
I don't actually believe EOW contact makes the NRPs home the child's home and I think it's a bit odd as a concept to be honest. I would like to think they feel at home, as the DSD obviously did when she decided to make OPs home her actual home, but realistically home is where your stuff is, where you spend the majority of your time, where your dentist sends appointment reminders to etc.
The young adult has a home. It's not that outlandish an idea that he should take a look around him and see that his young brother has no bedroom and no space and realise that he himself no longer really needs to be staying at Daddy's house like he did when he was small.

[FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander]

@DarkCharlotte

He doesn't have one home, he has two homes

They aren't equal though. He doesn't have two main homes.

I think this distinction is extremely slippery on MN. People are super keen to tell SMs that it’s ‘the SC’s home’. But the idea that mum’s house is really home pervades much of it to the extent that it’s clearly just a disingenuous stick to beat SMs with.

I never had any stuff at my dad’s. Or a bedroom. I’d have hated having stuff in two places too. It’s hard enough to keep track of stuff with a single base; I would have and would be so stressed by stuff I need potentially being in different houses and trying to coordinate it so I had the right stuff in the right place. It was much easier to put the stuff I needed immediately in a bag for an overnight stay.

Tbh, this is also why I find the assumption that 50-50 or close to it is the ideal scenario for contact so problematic. It would have ruined my life in so many ways to have to switch houses all the bloody time. It’s why my DS lives with me 12/14 nights. His dad and I agree that it’s much better for him to have a main home he goes to school from (and DS is very clear this is what he wants) but his dad lives locally and he goes there after school/for dinner twice a week too. He just doesn’t sleep there.

Sure different things might work for different families, but I suspect the concept of ‘best’ for the child is very often shaped entirely by the wants of parents.

[Magda72]

HIs family is split across two homes. That is his reality and not by his own choice. He doesn't have one home, he has two homes with some of his family living in one and some living in the other.

My dc all stopped doing long overnights with their dad as they got older & they always kept their possessions at mine. Mine was very much home & dads was secondary. They have half siblings at their dads & bar my dd being a bit put out by younger siblings stealing her thunder (same happens in intact families) none of them have ever felt marginalise or been tempted to view both houses as 'home'. In fact they all got more relaxed when contact with dad came about more as day visits or one overnight. They are all very well adjusted and have great relationships with dad, sm and siblings.
Most kids actually like having one main home & the concept of having two is often pushed on them by parents who are doing so in order to get some breathing space (rps) or make themselves feel less guilty (nrps). The vast majority of parents don't actually take on board how kids feel about 'home' & the truth is that most kids want to spend time with both parents but aren't particularly interested in having two homes. Providing a second 'home' is a parental notice that often kids just do not want.

[SpaceshiptoMars]

I think part of all this comes from different life expectancies. If you come from a family where most of the older generation were dead before retirement, then keeping a son or daughter at home until 30 seems like utter madness - that's HALF their lifetime - when are they going to fit in an adult life at all?

On the other hand, if your recent forebears have all lived until 90 or 100, then 30 is nothing. All those years potentially ahead of them, the young can afford to take their time.

Move back a few centuries and you'd be lucky to reach your forties. In those circumstances, marrying girls off at 12 made perfect sense.

[Magda72]

It’s why my DS lives with me 12/14 nights. His dad and I agree that it’s much better for him to have a main home he goes to school from (and DS is very clear this is what he wants) but his dad lives locally and he goes there after school/for dinner twice a week too. He just doesn’t sleep there.

Sure different things might work for different families, but I suspect the concept of ‘best’ for the child is very often shaped entirely by the wants of parents.

Same set up for me & my dc @FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander & I totally agree with your final bit.
People constantly remark on how well adjusted my dc are for kids of divorce (this is sort of a back handed compliment lol) & I think so much of this is down to them having a really stable base & knowing where home is.

[DarkCharlotte]

Most kids actually like having one main home & the concept of having two is often pushed on them by parents who are doing so in order to get some breathing space (rps) or make themselves feel less guilty (nrps). The vast majority of parents don't actually take on board how kids feel about 'home'

Tbh, this is also why I find the assumption that 50-50 or close to it is the ideal scenario for contact so problematic. It would have ruined my life in so many ways to have to switch houses all the bloody time

Yes, I'm always shocked by the push, both from people on here and by courts, for 50/50 as a baseline. That would have been a nightmare for me as a kid (even if mum lived close enough for it to be an option). I wanted the stability of a "base", not to be split right down the middle of two homes and having to spend half the week in one and the other in the other one, or one week there and one week here. Truly gives me feelings of anxiety just imagining it. Seems very unsettling in my mind. It probably works for some children but I don't think it should be the "default setting".

[SpaceshiptoMars]

@FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander

I think this distinction is extremely slippery on MN. People are super keen to tell SMs that it’s ‘the SC’s home’. But the idea that mum’s house is really home pervades much of it to the extent that it’s clearly just a disingenuous stick to beat SMs with.

The subtext of 'it's the SC's home' is 'but it isn't YOURS'. If you are not able to have equal say on family rules as the adult owner/renter of the home - then it isn't your home. Simple as.

[aSofaNearYou]

@FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander

But loads of families reorganise bedrooms etc when the eldest child reaches adulthood.

It’s not uncommon for a young adult to lose a bedroom when they go to university - even if they only have one parental home. It happened to loads of us. My mum turned my bedroom into a sewing and painting room the week after I moved into a student flat. It wasn’t a rejection of me, but a recognition that things had changed. I didn’t kick up a fuss.

Imagine if I’d kicked up a fuss if it had been to allow a much younger sibling to have a bedroom and not sleep in his parents’ room any more. I’d have been an absolute brat to object to that!

The circumstances are what they are, and it will be obvious to the 19 year old that the 4 year old does not have a bedroom anywhere. Part of growing up is recognising that things like sleeping on the sofa or a camp bed in the living room so that a 4 year old can have a (still shared!) bedroom is the decent thing to do. It’s not being pushed out of the family.

Framing it all as part of the growing up and leaving school process is a positive way to approach this. It’s a big change of circumstances and supporting him in transitioning to a more adult relationship with his father is a good thing.

Absolutely spot on!

[squareframe]

@toomuchlaundry

@squareframe does that mean he shouldn’t stay at his dad’s anymore?

Well he's 19 not 9, so i think he can probably manage the odd night on a put up bed rather than have his own room there when there simply isn't the space. It's not like he doesn't have his own room elsewhere.

[FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander]

I think a much healthier way of looking at things - for everyone - would be to separate concepts of home and family.

Theyre not the same thing. Living together is not the determining factor in ‘family’. People have all sorts of family they never live with. It doesn’t make those people less important or somehow downgrade the relationship. Similarly, people live together with people who are very definitely not family in many circumstances. The living together does not make the relationship more profound.

Children need to have a relationship with and experience family with both parents after divorce/separation. Yes. But where they sleep is not the key determinant of that.

This is even more important in a context where fathers often cannot afford to pay maintenance and provide an equal ‘home’ to children, especially where a financial split has already prioritised housing the mother and children.

And it shows how ridiculous the entire focus on nights sleeping where is in determining so much about children lives after their parents separate. It’s a dreadful measure and distorts so much. The focus should be on the quality of the relationship not the sleeping arrangements.

[aSofaNearYou]

@SpaceshiptoMars

@FishcakesWithTooMuchCoriander

I think this distinction is extremely slippery on MN. People are super keen to tell SMs that it’s ‘the SC’s home’. But the idea that mum’s house is really home pervades much of it to the extent that it’s clearly just a disingenuous stick to beat SMs with.

The subtext of 'it's the SC's home' is 'but it isn't YOURS'. If you are not able to have equal say on family rules as the adult owner/renter of the home - then it isn't your home. Simple as.

Yep, very similar to "you are entering a ready made family".