Who the hell does this to their child?!

[Lismoa]

I'm fuming and just need to vent!

We have been through an awful time with DSC's mum - crazy accusations, extreme parental alienation to the point that they've eventually been removed from her and now live with me and DH.
We wanted to take the DSC on holiday and knew she might try to block it in some way so we got a court order saying we could take them abroad and essentially forcing her permission to get the youngest a passport as he didn't have one. Initially she tried to delay things by repeatedly sending blurry photos of her own passport meaning her passport number was blurred (this was required for the application and the court had ordered she send her passport details) or photos that were so dark you couldn't read it or had the light shining brightly onto the passport number so you couldn't see. However eventually DH asked her for the passport number in person while collecting DSC and she gave him it, I'd guess because DSC were there and she didn't want to appear the bad guy blocking their holiday. The delay meant we had to pay extra to have the passport fast-tracked to make sure we had it in time but that's fine, at least we got it. After this she seemed to be starting to play ball and we thought maybe she was starting to mellow and realise that good relations were in the best interests of the children. She seemed to be being positive about the holiday to the children so we thought we were starting to make steps forward. We were so wrong!

We got away to our destination fine. She sent an unusual text on the first day saying - I'll assume you're all happy then- we thought it was her trying to make a point about DH not having told her we'd arrived (they have bare minimum contact with one another so it wouldn't have occurred to message her, DSC live full time with us and there's no contact between DH and his ex unless necessary). DH just replied saying DSC were very happy and having a great time and that was that.

On coming back into the country we were stopped at border control. She had reported oldest DSC's passport as being stolen. Apparently this was done just prior to our trip but it wasn't checked on the system on the way out the country (just checked visually rather than scanned) so they didn't clock it, nor did the country we were entering as they just did the same. Border control told us that if they had scanned his passport on the way out then he wouldn't have been allowed to leave the country and we couldn't have gone away.
We tried not to let the kids hear anything when the border control guy was telling us what was going on but the oldest kept trying to listen in and picked up on what was happening. His wee face when he realised what was going on and said to me - I know what's happened, my mum reported it as lost. She said the other week that she couldn't find my passport and would need to report it- it actually broke my heart for him. He looked absolutely broken, just devastated as the realisation hit him.
His mum has never had his passport in her possession. She has never taken him away anywhere, DH got DSS his passport after they had split up and has been the only one to ever take him away (which was only once so this holiday was a big deal to him) and has always had the passport.

Five minutes later, after literally saying - I know who it was, my mum did it- (we had been making out like it was a mistake that it had been reported stolen and he was saying - no, mum did it) he then started saying - I wonder who could have reported my passport as being stolen? That's so strange? Who would report a random person's passport as lost or stolen? -
It's obviously his way of dealing with it, by pretending to himself that she didn't do it even when he knows and was the one to say himself it was her. We went along with this, agreeing that it was all really strange and not mentioning his mum despite us all knowing fine well it was her. It feels like we're always doing this. We never say negative things about their mum and it's like we're constantly having to hide her behaviour from DSC to protect them from it so they don't get hurt or affected by it.

But I just can't get over how someone can be so bitter and twisted that they would do this to their own child in an attempt to stop them from having a nice holiday with their dad. It's so fucked up. She was prepared for her children to be all excited for going away, and she was adding to their excitement by being encouraging about the holiday, and then be turned away at the airport. I'm so so glad that the passports weren't scanned on the way out because the kids would have been completely devastated.

What I find hard sometimes though is that the kids will so easily convince themselves that she's an angel. I know it's the right thing for us to cover for her behaviour if it means they're less affected by it. It's to protect them and shield them from it but it's hard when for example even after what happened today they are talking about how they are going to show their mum their holiday photos and teach her the new words they've learned, like she's done nothing, and my mind is just screaming at her. It's better for them to see her that way though, I know, but it's just so frustrating. I felt so much anger towards her today, seeing them sitting there all anxious waiting at border control for ages while it all got sorted (which it thankfully did as DH had brought all the court documents with us just incase although DSS's passport was impounded and we'll likely need to go to court again to get another one).

I hate having such a toxic person in our lives.

You sound calm and sensible. Well done keeping your cool

Children are hard wired to love their parents, even when they're idiots. DSS knows perfectly well that his Mum reported the passport missing, and he will work out why, if he hasn't already

If they only moved to live with you recently, I imagine it may take time to settle

@YotkshireLass

Can you report a passport as lost if you don't know the passport number?

You may be able to report it as lost without the number to get a new one, but pulling this number at the airport is only possible if you have the passport number.

The same happened to a friend of mine, but on the way out, she had all the court paperwork and permissions but in all the mess they missed the flight and the holiday had to be cancelled. I remember her repeating for years, that you should never allow them to have the passport number as if they report the children may be “abducted” and taken abroad by the other parent, they will be stop the trip and check if the allegations are true later.

Do you necessarily have to go back to court to get a replacement? Can't you just order one in the normal way?

@Wallywobbles

Id suspect this may well be grounds for having her parental responsibility removed.

Yes I am wondering this. Go back and at least alert your solicitor this happened so it is on file. I'd be looking for some sort of formal sanction against her also. Her actions must have consequences.

This is what my mother was like. She still is, it’s why I cannot have her in my life. My sister does but she always lives in fear as to what she will do next. The woman is capable of anything.

@Lismoa

Yes I was thinking this. So for the child that said mummy did it for you then to play into the "I wonder who did that" narrative I'm wondering if that might have made things more confusing. If they know it was their mum then Im not sure it's helpful joining I'm an alternative narrative. But yes speak to a professional.

We didn't exactly say 'we don't know who', after he said it was his mum, we did say it before he said it was his mum though (although we knew immediately). After he said it was his mum, then when he started saying it was strange we just didn't really say anything, so we didn't say, 'well it was your mum like you said', we just kind of said 'hmmm'. But i do think you're right and in general we're not necessarily helping them by hiding them from her behaviour, it's finding out how to do it the right way though that's going to be the least harmful to them.

Ah I see. Yes it's so hard. Sounds like you're doing well though not to just lose it in front of the kids x

I hope your DSC have a very good therapist they need it.

Have you read "How to talk so kids will listen, listen so kids will talk"? It's helpful in letting them say what they think and have the space to have both fantasy and reality and how to deal with it.

Thank goodness you all got to go away.

She sounds vile, the children will come to realise this.

Your DSS is pretending his mum is innocent because the truth is too painful. Imagine that? Your mum has deliberately tried to sabotage your holiday. Tried to hurt you. That means she may not love me. Nope, pretend she's not like that. Easier. Poor kids. Carry on loving them, it will make a difference to them in the long-run.

With you pretending not to know it was their mum, and the dc quickly changing from knowing it was her to being confused, it does sound that the dc have learned (from you) that they’re not allowed to be angry or critical towards their mother.

@Lismoa

Is it even safe/healthy for your DSC being round her?

To be honest I've questioned this for a long time. Some of the things she has said to them in an attempt to alienate them from DH is just downright disgusting and I was shocked when the court didn't implement supervised access to ensure this wasn't able to continue. Now she has unsupervised visits and DSC have come back saying strange things at times, including youngest DSC starting to say things their mum has told them and oldest shushing him and shaking his head so he doesn't tell us and we don't know what's been said but know it's something that's not right.

Your situation sounds so similar to mine with my dsd.

The thing which we comfort ourselves with is that she does speak to us about the things her mum is telling her, and she does feel like she can talk to us about the stories she doesn't understand (mostly attempts to alienate her from her dad). I simpathise with the situation. It's so difficult to know what stance to take. If we prove her mum's stories wrong she says "well even though, I believe her as she told me first" and similar. She's young though and doesn't truly understand the impact of what she is saying. We trust that our actions will stay with her longer than her mum's nasty stories.

Rather than go into too much detail to try to disprove her made up nonsense we also try to just laugh it off, like it's no big deal and put it down to being silly. We hope this is lessen the impact.

Is there a way you can encourage open dialogue with them, so at least they can get whatever it is off their chest and out in the open so they are not holding the weight of it all on their own? You don't need to counter anything they say, just give them a safe space for them to say whatever they need to?

Bloody hell. Thank god you got to go away.

Do the kids have access to counselling services? It sounds like they will need it, but I agree that you certainly shouldn’t challenge a child’s coping mechanisms - they are natural protection to allow realty to slowly land.

And I guess take this as a cue to get absolutely all paperwork from her.

You need to tell your DC, at least some of it, so they are prepared when they visit their mother otherwise they’ll be easily manipulated. It’s really difficult dealing with a toxic family member but helping children identify what is toxic behaviour and encouraging them to talk about it will help them process and understand it.

I’d start with saying there’s no secrets between you all and talk briefly about how it’s not fair to be asked to keep secrets, that some not nice people will ask them to do that, and ask if anyone has asked them too. I’d start with the youngest separately as there’s obviously something been said that he wants to tell you.

it’s a hard situation to be in. Keep going and protect the DCs as much as you can.

I cannot believe you’re so calm about it - I feel livid reading this - it was pure chance they got a lovely holiday when she sabotaged it like that. This needs to be followed up. How dare she. What an absolute bitch.

@Fluxcapacitator

You sound as though you are doing an amazing job, and clearly are putting the children first. Maybe speak to a professional about how to address the mothers behaviour with the dcs. My feeling is you may need to be more honest about her behaviour being unacceptable as it sounds confusing for them if it is all covered up.

I was going to say something similar.

Obviously you don't go out of your way to badmouth the other parent, but children need to know that their instincts and feelings can be trusted and are validated by the responsible adults around them.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to pretend that the truth is other than it really is when it's so obvious and your step child knows this. Much better to help them find a coping mechanism that deals with the situation as it is rather than playing make-believe.

Agree with Luredby that counselling is a good idea. Have a chat with the school about it and they’ll look for any unusual behaviours that could arise.

This happened with my youngest DC and school got some counselling for him which was brilliant, they also had teachers do exercises with small groups or the class to increase self-confidence and resilience. I’m so thankful they did.

We all understand why you do what you do. But it's not actually helping the dc because they are now in denial. I think this will require counselling for them later.

My exh told our dc he was taking them on holiday.. They packed a case which lived on his bed for months. They never went. He refused me permission to take them even on a day out. They went nc with him at 12 and 14. Wonder why.

This is heartbreaking. I would speak to a professional about this. And maybe your solicitor.

I too would seek professional advice regarding talking about her behaviours with the sdc.
My exh has issues with alcohol which affect/cause certain behaviours (he's very functional but they are issues non the less). I remember discussing with my therapist my fear that in covering for him I was actually being complicit in 'condoning' his behaviour which I did not feel was a good example to set my dc.
She totally agreed with me & together we came up with language which I could use to call out the behaviours but not the man if that makes any sense.
I think this is what you need here. In staying silent you run the risk of normalising her behaviour which ultimately won't be good for the sdc. Not all children are clear eyed about their parents as they get older & many can (subconsciously) take on bad behavioural patterns.
Btw you sound like you are doing an amazing job with these dc .

So glad you got your holiday before this happened. I'm also happy for your kids that you rescued them from an awful mother. I suffered growing up with an awful mother and I wish my dad had bothered to rescue me.

Ultimately she’s their only mother and always will be, so the eldest is naturally going to want to see the best in her.
I would stick to the childrens narrative so as not to cause further upset.
Keep putting them first and showing you love them, it’s good they have a secure home with you and their dad.

She sounds like my DH's ex. Sadly people like this are incapable of putting their children first and the bitterness and need to be in control trumps everything else.
Do you have any social worker or Cafcass involvement following the courts removing them from her care? If so I think you need to raise this. In my experience it doesn't stop and tends to escalate.

personally im more into telling the truth hut on a nice way. they need to just understand that shes obviously going through some things. its not normal and that she loves them but she has her own issues.
I wouldnt let her actions confuse them.
what she did was a horrible thing to those poor children but most of all it sounds abit like she may have mental health issues because who does that.

@Moochio

What an absolutely nasty thing to do. Could your DH go back to court and get her parental responsibility removed? Is that a thing? She's going to damage her kids.

No it’s not a thing.....takes much much more than than to lose your PR as a parent.....even when your children have been removed and are placed in care the parents still retain some PR along with the LA who act as a corporate parent