Step parent support thread

[Narwhalelife]

I wanted to start a step parent support thread. I have been a step parent for 14 years now. We have had the full gambit (!) so i am pretty experienced I also have a DD with DP.

I am appealing to other step parents to be open about their experiences and share in the highs and lows because it can be a taboo subject (the voice of step parents).

This is not a thread for ex wives to bash new partners or to insinuate that all step parents are evil and hate step children and other nonsense I have seen as a lurker on this site.

It’s for advice, chance to vent and just discuss the curious situation of falling daring to fall in love with someone that had children before you met ❤️

@Cantbeliveyoufakeit

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Why is it always the small things that just tip you over the edge?

I was trying to take the toddler to a swimming lesson this morning. Usually I go on public transport. That works fine. All good. My mum is visiting (which is a bit stressful anyway) so I can use her car. So I go to put my car seat in the car and the isofix mechanism doesn’t work.

The main user of this car seat is H because he has a car and I don’t. It lives in my house because 1. It’s mine and 2. He just removes it from his car as soon as he’s done with DS (so he can set his car up for the golden children as standard) and flings it in his garage, and then I never have a car seat if my parents visit. I bought an isofix seat because I know that H will badly fit seatbelt car seats and just use them like that. I’ve seen this. So I wanted one he can’t fuck up. But h has broken the isofix.

The isofix arms just will not extend. At all. So clearly H has just been ramming it in his car and has broken it. So I’ve ended up really upset because I literally cannot put the seat in the car. No matter what I try the arms will not extend. My stepdad can’t do it either. So I can’t take DS to his lesson (which he LOVES). And I’m overwhelmed and a soggy mess because my H just will not take care of anything. Yet again, DS misses out because his father doesn’t care about anything but himself.

i recognise that it’s not really the car seat (although the logistics of all this are overwhelming enough with ADHD); it’s a much wider thing where I have to recognise that H doesn’t take care of me or DS or anyone. He’s perfectly capable of looking after his own stuff - stuff he cares about (like his guitars or whatever) - but he just does the minimum and treats me, DS, everyone else, our stuff as unimportant. He’s not clumsy or useless. It’s literally that he only cares about himself and what makes him look or feel good.

My stepdad has been lovely and calm (while I’ve had basically a proper ADHD meltdown and sobbed/ranted about H) and has taken the seat to Halfords to see if someone can fix the seat. Obviously he totally recognises that it’s not the seat that’s the real issue.

@TrailOfAbandonedPlanners if it helps I had a full blown meltdown at partner over a car seat (because he had thrown mine in back of van and it's trashed).

Proper emotional screaming and he was so shocked he said he has never seen me so emotional and didn't think I had it in me 🙄

I'm with you, your feelings are totally valid and I personally would let DH have it (this is mostly likely bad advice) but I have to say it felt good for a change.

My H has seen me that emotional many times since I had our toddler. Just the complete overwhelm exacerbated by him not helping/actively making everything harder/expecting me to pick up his parenting slack for demanding and quite difficult SC (with all that responsibility/no power tightrope they put you on).

He just uses that to play the victim and pretend I’m abusive for losing it when it is so far beyond too much I literally cannot cope. It’s the whole beating a dog and cornering it, then blaming it if it snaps thing.

@SpaceshiptoMars I wanted to ask because you have experience in this area.. somethings been narwing at me.

My DSD sometimes acts v young for her age, but on other occasions incredibly switched on and very adult about things, it's like a light switch depending on who's around. I put the babies stuff (or apparent inability to do stuff) down to her ASD. But the more I think about it, I'm actually wondering if this isn't a ASD thing and more of a im being manipulated type thing.

She definitely does have ASD that's clear as day but I'm worried to I have joined in with the being conned group. Tell me straight (I will be fine, just will go have breakdown in corner) joking mostly. I realised there's a heavy change depending on who's around, with me she's a different and utterly adult capable young lady direct (which I rather like) but the child her mother speaks of is so very different (and I have seen it). Really big change.

Here's to hoping I am overthinking this !

@pitchforksandflamethrowers

I think the answer may come from transactional analysis. You stay in adult with her, you pull the adult out of her. Observe how Mum interacts with her - is she encouraging and expecting the child or is she trying to develop independence?

Also you got a fresh start, and could set out your stall of expectations from the very beginning. DSD has had no experience of you folding under pressure! I got a very different response from the DSC than Dad, because my expectations were so much higher and I refused to give ground on those. (Nearly killed me, but, hey!) I recently got a hug from one and a sincere apology for having been a jerk, so, you know, can be good!

Manipulation is a very loaded word, and a 13 year old is unlikely to be consciously doing this. They do something, maybe accidentally or on impulse, and get a result they like. So they do it again. No thought about how it might screw with your head, keep you awake nights, make the weight fall off you etc. Be 13, be narcissicistic, ASD or otherwise!

@SpaceshiptoMars so everyone can be place in categories mum treats her like a child way younger than she is and DSD has cottoned on to this and she's she lies to her mum because she's dumb and mum will believe her but DSD will talk to her somewhat (not a lot but some). She also tries to give answers mum will want to hear and is usually bang on the money.

There anyone else category which DH and her SF falls into is silent as little talking as possible unless for them to do something for her. Seems to get a little kick out of people talking to her and her being rude and giving one word answers. She tends to let these people talk for her in terms of emotions reasons why she's rude ect. This group for people she does 0 to please.

Then there's me who she talks non stop to. She's never rude to me when we are alone but in a group from the above she tries it, and fails because I will say (that's rude x) and move on.

Both DH and mum do not understand how I have gotten her to talk more than both of them combined to me but I suspect me and DSD talk the same language as to speak . People from the silent group are usually fabagasted at difference so much so it's a party trick almost. She does try to please me (it's not her nature to do this but she tries harder than the silent group) but even then it's minimal iMO ,not that I really want her to, I just expect certain things and very blunt about it. Aka used sanity products go in small bin in bathroom. Wash hair and body ect. She certainly tries to lie to me but it's incredibly obvious and I will call it out. She seems to enjoy this part. Like game play.

So in summary to my essay I assume it's probably what you said - I set my stalls up and stuck to them. It is also nearly killing me. Since one of my stalls is do not hurt any children (not just mine)

I worry we moving from unconscious manipulation to conscious. She can and is utterly charming (iMO) when she wants to be which is a new trait. I don't know why this worries me more. My personality is pretty set so it maybe she's just developing hers and as you said being a teenager, and I'm thinking from my v ridged view point which is your personality is your personality and you can't flex the base personality.

Which as I type it does sound incredibly ridged and foolish. Also congratulations on the hug and the real apology. I have had a few hugs but never a true apology that wasn't ordered by her parents so I have said to not bother until she knows why she's saying sorry or it's a waste of her abs my time. Half the time she has 0 idea and I don't believe she needs to parrot things to me that are untrue... at what age did you get the real apology? (So I can eagerly await the age when hopefully she gets it) 🙏🏻

The best thing I think I ever did as a sm is stopped giving to much of a fuck of what others thought of me as a sm and handled the situations thrown at me as I saw fit. Accepting that somewhere even if I had 0 boundaries and danced the guilt dance someone would still think I'm a evil stepmonster has been enlightening.

Yes I lose sleep because once a idea has landed in my brain it's hard to shake.

she's she lies to her mum because she's dumb and mum will believe her

These are DSD words, not my own. Her mum in my opinion is not dumb.

It sounds like your SD has plenty of people around her who do respond to (and even encourage) the babyish behaviour. It sounds very much like her mum is utterly in denial about so much. It’s a real shame.

I worry we moving from unconscious manipulation to conscious. She can and is utterly charming (iMO) when she wants to be which is a new trait. I don't know why this worries me more. My personality is pretty set so it maybe she's just developing hers and as you said being a teenager, and I'm thinking from my v ridged view point which is your personality is your personality and you can't flex the base personality.

This does sound worrying.

To some extent, it does sound like the outcome of living with people who’ve allowed her to manipulate them like that. She’s learned that she can manipulate people and get what she wants. Now she’s 13 and better able to use this.

I’d suggest the very first thing is that her father needs to take himself out of the second group. He needs to show her that he sees through her and that her attempts to manipulate upset and sadden him. She does need to see (and feel) the effects of antisocial behaviour (that’s what it is).

It’s hard when you can see this stuff. I suspect my SD will be extremely manipulative as a teenager and adult. She has always been noticeably manipulative. She’s always been the sort of child who acts all sweet and innocent to adults, while kicking the other kids under the table. And her parents indulge it. They are both extremely manipulative people too, so her role models are people whose mode of operation is just not very nice. I won’t need to witness it, but I do worry about my toddler.

I mean, we are all manipulative so some extent. But there is pro-social manipulation (I’ll do this because it will make this person feel better, and I want them to feel better) and anti-social manipulation. Learning to manipulate people in ways that benefit you but do them harm is not a good thing for anyone.

@TrailOfAbandonedPlanners well she's started sharing these comments with him in front of him. He's horrified. He definitely doesn't baby her but is horrified when she talks of death pain ect and his mouth is just hanging open.

Been nasty little surprises for him I can assure you. I'm keeping a eye. Many eyes in fact xxx

It must be horrible for him, but I think he might really need to feel the shock, fear and even revulsion at the things she’s saying.

She needs to perceive him as very much not in group 2 (people she doesn’t need to bother with). And he needs to not slip back into the comfortable ignorance. Obviously he’s going to really wish he could do that (who wouldn’t?)

Sadly, her mum appears to be more that just quietly ignorant. She seems to be actively avoiding the truth and in total denial.

You really are a strong woman to maintain your empathetic and compassionate stance here, while sticking to boundaries to keep your children safe.

There are some seriously strong wills in this family, so I've had to hold my boundaries against combined weight. I've nearly gone under (so, so close...), and have a therapist who is holding my back. The work I'm doing is paying dividends - easily paying for itself in terms of sleeping better, enabling me to navigate some very hard conversations and enjoying life more.

I realized if I gave an inch, the tanks would roll over me, so hard as it is, I stick to my guns. It hasn't made me Ms Popular AT ALL, but I'm getting more respect and some acknowledgement that my stance was at least fair and understandable! Other people prefer a quiet life and choose a less resistant path, but for me that would just push the problems further down the track when I might be frailer and unable to hold my own.

@pitchforksandflamethrowers if you are strong now, fight now, because once you are dealing with adult DSCs you have far fewer options.

@TrailOfAbandonedPlanners tbh I have had many many wobbles. Came on here and the lovely posters on here have my head a good shake (in a kindly way) thankfully it was enough to see me through.

On my weaker days I'm totally with DH I would love to slip back into ignorance, even for a few mins . That said as DH said to his parents once you see it, it's so glaringly terrifying you cannot unsee it, like knowing your being hunted by a murder (there's my dark humour again). They aren't shocked by any of it which is very telling and concerning.

I do somehow feel for mum, I think god how would I feel if I was faced with this. That said theses behaviours are known to me and have been known to me from childhood (a member of the family very much of the same type) so i have seen first hand what life could have in store if it's not curbed, for DSD and mum and it won't be happy for either. I think that what's worse is knowing it can and will get so so much worse and by that point it's too late.

Empathy for me and wasn't inate but a taught experience learned repeatedly. I have tried to turn my blind spot into something I work daily. I don't always get it right but I try.

@SpaceshiptoMars fighting I am, strong I am not. Fragments of a broken person rebuilt into a rag doll of a human. That said I am bastardly stubborn and will not allow my children to ever be hurt under my watch. I would like to encompass DSD in that umbrella and approach but sadly I cannot as I'm not mum and she very well maybe the maker of her own deepest scars if she's not careful.

Feel like banging my head on a wall repeatedly.

I disagree with posts that a child of that age can't/doesn't consciously manipulate. My DSD is 11 and has been consciously doing this for quite a while and when she has being caught doing it, she has admitted she knew what she was doing, doesn't regret saying/doing those things.

For me is the scary things she hasn't been caught doing and she has caused unbelievable amounts of trouble in the past. It's very scary to see that behaviour from a child of her age but the school has picked up on it too.

@NightOwl101 if your dealing with this you have my deepest sympathies. Regardless where it comes from the impact is devastating.

The only way I have found is to call it out when it happens and make the consequences impossible to ignore. Pull in everyone, don't let it be a known secret your DSC or any child (I would also do this with my DC) the less the lies work the less they do it.

I agree @NightOwl101 & sorry you're dealing with that. I think dc of that age (& even younger) can be highly manipulative in that they want what they want & will happily devise ways to get it.
My mum always used to tell a story about how my middle sister was always coming home from being outside playing, in tears saying she was being picked on by the older 2 siblings & their mates. Then one day my mum was looking out a bedroom window & literally saw my sister skip down the road as happy as anything. Once she reached the house she paused at the gate, made herself cry & then ran into the house yelling that they'd all been bullying her again!

She was 7!

@Magda72

There is a difference though, with a 7 yr old. Nobody immediately labelled her an evil child who would come to no good, destined for prison etc etc. We recognize that childish manipulation is a simple straightforward thing - not a plan to land all the other children in trouble, but a plan to land herself a mummy cuddle!

Behind @pitchforksandflamethrowers DSDs behaviour is not a plan to make everyone else miserable, suicidal etc. It's an impulsive plan to make herself feel secure and safe. It's a kind of magical thinking - that the clock can be reversed, and all these extra people just walk backwards out of her life. Well, we're not in Harry Potter world, we don't have timeturners, but sometimes the kids think we do.....

At 13, you don't have the context to see what your actions will lead to. My DSC (30s) is now appalled at the consequences of some of their actions. Because they only now have the social understanding to see what they were doing to us. Before that it was, "oh, but I only". And now I have to be very gracious and say let's move on, another day, another dollar!

@SpaceshiptoMars I read that and thought this women is a saint.

I am not saint like in any form so it also makes me despair a bit as I have 0 grace left to give. I'm also rather annoyed for unrelated reason but feeling narky.

My problem is I can get 90% of it but in its essence, at aged 13 with the mental comprehension my DSD has (because she really is bright even for asd) she knows on no level it's ok to hurt animals and babies.

More historic family stories are coming out of kids getting hurt by DSD hand by friends and close family ( I wasn't told as people were worried I would bolt - which they are spot on I would have) and its simply she doesn't like x she aims to get rid of it. As simple and as cruel as that fact is and can be.

I personally think everyone can be manipulative, I don't think it defines them to a life of crime or being a bad person but it's a strong indicator of a brewing problem.

I also love a member of my family who is most definitely a narcissist. God bless her, I live in fear of being like her but honestly she's lived a very successful life in all areas, without turning to a life of crime. Think sharky professions and you hit it on the head. It's just really sad it won't ever be enough for her and will always mean she's sad/filling the empty hole inside of her whislt acting like a wrecking ball to others lives and her own . She would quite happily sell out grandad for a few quid if it would benefit her but she is who she is. Had she not had such a ridge/ strict upbringing I don't doubt she may have been more likely wondered down a less narrow path.

If you want to know how I can love someone like that, my truthful answer is I have no fucking idea. Like seal loving a great white shark. Dangerous and frankly a stupid idea.

pitchforksandflamethrowers I agree there needs to be clear consequences but if I try and implement any she refuses to see us. Her DM and DF have never had a good co parenting relationship so there's never really been any consistent consequences.

An example of DSD knowing and planning is she got told off at school for a minor thing but it was in front of her friend who laughed and this embarrassed her. So when she went home she told her DM the teacher had grabbed her arm and shook her and shouted really close to her face, she cried all weekend about how scared and horrible she was and didn't want go back to school. Her DM promised she would go into school Monday and "kick off" all weekend she's asked repeatedly are you telling the truth she promises yes constantly. DM goes into school kicking off shouting threatening police action, DSD is smiling happy that the teacher is shocked. To cut a long story short the teacher tells her version, after witnesses confirm the teachers story DSD admits she planned this story so her mum would kick off because she wanted to punish the teacher for telling her off. After when she's spoken to and given punishment by DM she said that she must of known she would get found out and told off and she said yes she did but it was worth it to see the teacher upset.

It’s amazing what people tell you after it’s all too late, isn’t it?

I agree that all humans can be manipulative. Even toddlers can manipulate situations to try to get their own way. It’s not inherently a negative thing. It’s all part of learning that we can affect other people, and that we often need others to help us get what we need. That can grow into all sorts of extremely positive things as other emotional and cognitive capacities develop. We can learn how to ‘manipulate’ situations to help other people we care about (not just ourselves). I mean, a large part of effective parenting of small children is about manipulating them and the environment so that it’s easy for them to succeed and behave well. It’s the opposite of negative.

The issue you seem to be having is that there’s no sense of empathy or conscience emerging alongside the manipulation. Not even a sense that it matters if other people are physically hurt. Or that it even matters if other people find out the intentions behind it. That’s why it’s so very scary.

Yes thank you, you wrote it better then how I was trying to explain it.

I'm not saying manipulation makes people completely bad or children and it's part of a learning curve and development for them but in some situations it is consciously done and that coupled with a few others at the minute makes it abit more scarier in real life.

@NightOwl101 I think the worrying part of that story is she used her mum as a weapon to cause someone upset and enjoyed it. Neurologically speaking children cannot be classed with narcissism, or sociopath because their brains have the ability to change as their brains haven't set as it were (unlike adults) but there are behaviours that show trouble maybe coming. I which is why early invention is key with professional.

My only advice is look out for the trifector - sadly DSD is showing two of the three signs (and I haven't dared to ask about fire) but that doesn't mean she's a lost cause or may not grow out of it. It does mean you have to be alert. Some of these traits are nature vs nurture but I'm also of the opinion you may not be able to change someone's nature but you can curb it. You just need to find the right language to do so. @SpaceshiptoMars has a wealth of knowledge on this so she's my go to person.

Also it's hearting to see progress can be made. But it really is pushing shit up hill in my case

Thank you, the last couple of months have been an absolute whirl wind and it's sometimes hard to see straight.

@pitchforksandflamethrowers
More historic family stories are coming out of kids getting hurt by DSD hand by friends and close family ( I wasn't told as people were worried I would bolt - which they are spot on I would have) and its simply she doesn't like x she aims to get rid of it. As simple and as cruel as that fact is and can be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not minimising the potential future problems. I'm advocating throwing everything you can at the problem right now, while there is a young plastic brain to work with. It is very hard to not catastrophise when faced with stuff like this. I'm not sure what you meant by 'trifector' and fire, but that comment leaves me feeling distinctly queasy....

Maybe look into Decompression Treatment?
www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/treatment-for-psychopaths-can-the-psychopath-be-cured