If you could start again what would you do differently?

[SnowWhitesSM]

Hi it's me again

Brief overview - I have two teens FT and h has his ds 8. He moved out a month or so ago. When we got married dh came down with a huge case of the nrp dad guilt which infected our marriage and caused lots of problems. I became very resentful of his parenting and his son. Hs parenting is pretty normal apart from he gives the decision making power to his son. I believed for ages that I was a monster and it was my fault but actually his processes are wrong. I desperately wanted us to be a team and for us to be a family but at the time hs guilt and anxiety couldn't allow this. I had never been as miserable as what I was when we were living together and his son was around. I cannot do that to myself again.

So h is desperate that we don't split up. He's starting a CBT group for his anxiety and wants us to go back to counselling. I really want my marriage to work. I want to include his son and I want us both to be a team around all the dc. I want the flipping Waltons ffs.

So we're going to go to marriage counselling and get back to basics. We're going to have a year apart to work on ourselves. He is not to blame for everything that went wrong but he's the root of it. I'm not saying that to shift blame as I am responsible for my own words and actions when feeling hurt/rejected ect but it all stems from his dad guilt and giving decision making power to his son.

What do I need from him to be happy being a step parent? What works for you? How do I explain how to be a team with him?

But random did I do that to myself? When I have talked to h about these things he says his pissiness is normal husband/dad annoyances and that I shouldn't have took them the way I did. I should have rolled my eyes about it. That what he did was not meant to make me feel any type of awkwardness. That I've taken it personally when it wasn't.

Well he isn't going to say "sorry I was wrong to behave like that" is he because ITS ALL YOUR FAULT.

EVERYTHING is always all your fault isn't it? Even when he accepts responsibility he backtracks and says it's your fault again.

You know this is why the terminology around the word abuse, is tricky. You think of abuse and most people think hitting. There's more than one way to be violent to another human. MN is a good example, people piling on a poster on word usage. If you smack someone around it's less socially acceptable, but words well you can hide behind them but still inflow the pain.

Pain in the brain whether physical or mental pain lights up the brain in the exact same way. Call it a throw back to when we were in caves and social exclusion meant death. That's why our brains respond the exact same way but the rules of society mean we have to act differently, we reduce mental pain because it's not visible. Pain inflicted by words is harder to spot.

Abuse is really about exerting utter control other another through various means. It comes in so many different shades. There are different types of abuse, as there are different types of pain. Neither more or less than another, just different.

Call the abuse - "Dave" if it helps. You don't like Dave, Dave makes you feel bad, you want to avoid Dave. Dave doesn't mean your some down trodden women. Dave's existence isn't less or more worse than someone else's "Dave" and therefore you can't compare.

Of course this morning your worried about "Dave", when it shows up, your brain lights up in response and causes mental pain.

It's ok to want to avoid Dave. You need to talk about Dave, you are entitled to keep Dave away and say me and you Dave we need a divorce.

Apologies to any daves out there - it's just first name that came to my head.

You're right random. Imagine having a man that adores you for who you are and laughs warmly at your human foibles. I don't think I've ever been so tied up in knots and trying to dampen myself for anyone else I've ever been with.

Thanks candle. I know what you're saying and you're right. I'm struggling to apply it to dave. I wonder if it's a trauma bond and thats why I'm struggling to leave. I know he is unsafe but yet I feel safe whilst feeling unsafe. My brain keeps trying to find ways in which its my fault so we can work. But he's not doing that. Dave is finding ways to make me take responsibility for his actions. Dave wants me to apologise to him for how he treats me. It's fucked. Dave hasn't read, listened to pod casts, even a simple Google search, on how to make his marriage better and how to not be a prick. Dave is set on making it my fault.

Just tell Dave it's all your fault that you can't change so you need to divorce.

Then all of Dave's arguments fall apart because you are stating loud and clear that you won't change and he needs you to change for it to work.

Ha I have done that random but maybe thats the line I need to hold. Yes dave I am a horrible person and I'm not able to change. Sorry about that and I wish you the best.

Agree with random !! There's something powerful in going to Dave yes I'm all these bad things you say about me. But I still don't want to around you Dave. Worst person in the world awful, hideous. Leave the other person in a position to force to move and as sassbot has said this will make him escalate. All daves do this when they don't get the reaction they want.

Exception is the killer of all joy right. You can't play chess if the other player refuses to play.

Ps can you hit him on head with frying pan before returning ! Or at least imagine it ?

The visual will make you smile. Or maybe that's just me

So I ended up taking his pan round to his on my way to my aunties. I thought that would be better, I stayed in the car.

He did what you said he would do sassbot. He got in my car and gave me full pelt emotional blackmail. Apparently I drag him down, I have not taken steps to be a good step mum emotionally with his son as I didnt text him Xmas day, I am selfish and childish, I made his life as miserable as he made mine. I did start arguing back but then did the yes I'm all of those things.

He left it with I'll look back and regret pushing him away and stopping him from loving me. I'll end up with an ugly thick alcoholic and wish I was with him.

I had a lovely coffee with my aunt, nan and uncle. I asked them things like - was I over reacting when I got upset that every bike ride we went on he cycled off as I was slower than him, or the time we walked up pen y fan and he would walk really fast and then wait for me and dd then hurry us up and moan about us resting. I really felt that I was slowing him down and guilty, but also upset that he kept going off so I might as well have done it without him. I thought I was being so silly being upset about those type of things but my family were very - no thats not normal.

He's now text me about the money and that he's paying it in my bank today. He also wants his blender back and a vase thats been forgotten about. I'm going to go through the cupboards, find anything else that's been forgotten and go and dump it on him later. I just want him out my life! But I still feel like I'm over reacting, he's also said and text today that he's not the domestic abuser that I'm making him out to be. But he is, he's emotionally abused me.

He left it with I'll look back and regret pushing him away and stopping him from loving me. I'll end up with an ugly thick alcoholic and wish I was with him.

Can I guess something- the alcoholic reference. Was that a personal reference to your life ? Like a inside joke but a inside snip ?

Don't hand anything back until he's paid the money in.

Well he had had true colours waving loud and proud today because you stood your ground!

I’ll post later in full. Am running around.
Well done on taking the pan to him. And yes of course he did what I said he would. Brace yourself for further escalations. He’s not remotely done yet.

I in the meantime have received another passive aggressive email sent late last night. Am going to continue to grey rock and not respond. It’s designed to provoke, very much so. First one was a white flag, this one is the first grenade.

Candle my last boyfriend liked a beer a bit too much. One of the reasons we split was because I was fed up of not being able to do anything that didn't involve the pub. He was a boyfriend, not a step dad or over my house a great deal. Thats why h said that.

What did the email say sassbot?

@sassbott, he's desperate for a reaction.

@SnowWhitesSM, my health was also impacted by the relationship so if you know you have physical reactions to the stress then you have to "get out and stay out" as your children deserve a healthy mum. Emotional stress can lead to ill health as adrenaline overloads lowers the immune system. Often we're not aware as our bodies absorb the stress so the damage can take a while to show.

He definitely had a good life with you, it's why he is fighting so hard (and dirty) to retain it. Of course you had positives in the relationship, such as new adventures, but that doesn't mean the bad is worth staying for. Perhaps he came into your life to show you that you can try new stuff but he isn't capable of an emotionally healthy relationship.

How long have you been together?

All, I’ve updated my thread so as not to derail this one.

@SnowWhitesSM how are you feeling after today? This must be so difficult for you.

My advice is to think about what will make this manageable for you. You don’t have to jump to all of his demands. Nor do you have to jump to return some items.

He has very easy access to you and he’s clearly using that to emotionally abuse you. The things he has said to you are vile. Healthy relationships and healthy people do not end relationships like that. I’ve had very healthy relationships in my life and they have ended with ‘I’m so sorry it hasn’t worked out.’ They ended gently without us hurling abuse at one another.

This is designed to strike fear into you, make you believe you won’t do better than him and so you take him back. His next tack will be sobbing and a next apologies.

*abject

@SnowWhitesSM

He shouted at me again yesterday and the day before because I put up a photo of my Xmas tree on fb and said me and the kids are ready for Xmas. His reaction to being hurt is to hurt me (emotionally). I shouted back at him yesterday afternoon and then by the evening he had apologised and was disgusted with himself. I really don't believe he does this on purpose, he goes into fight mode in is defence mechanism.

This is gaslighting. He has covertly made you feel sorry for his anger explosion. He has shown you and is showing you who he is. Believe him

@sassbott you're so right. This isn't how healthy relationships end. My last relationship ended when we realised we wanted different things, we didn't hurl abuse at each other, we didn't hurt each other. It was sad but we were grown up about it. H is clinging on and somehow making it my fault and blaming me for not clinging on too. Sometimes in life, we say and do things that aren't able to be taken back. This is what he has done. Banging on to me about how horrible I am whilst simultaneously trying to persuade me to come back.

I had the tears and sobbing a couple of weeks ago. I hope they don't come back because that is my weak spot. Last time he was crying I went over there and cuddled him and tried to make it all better.

I feel better about not being with him after today. But I also feel quite worried. He said other things to me too, something that is sticking is that I'll never find a man without children who doesn't want children (I'm not having anymore) and so if I don't want more dc and want another relationship I'll be back in the same boat. I don't want to start dating again for a long time. I am planning a year of being happy single but I don't think I want to ever try step parenting again. It wasn't for me. I don't enjoy other peoples dc living with me. I don't enjoy being put second to a whims of a child. I don't enjoy having a child with loyalty binds and jealousy in my home. I don't enjoy being around unlikeable dc who's parents make them entitled.
My step parenting issues were so common, so many threads on here with similar issues, Wednesday martins book, podcasts, support groups and a lot of those people had it worse than me. I don't ever want to consider being with someone and being in that position ever again. Does this mean I realistically need to be ok with being single for the rest of my life. It's quite a tall order to ask someone to not have dc and not want dc.

@Fireflygal we were only seeing each other for a couple of years before we got married. We didn't live together and I thought I knew him well. I was so happy and so in love with him. I used to cry with happiness about how I loved him so much and how he loved me so much. It felt like he filled up every hole inside me. He absolutely adored me, he was the kindest man I thought I had ever been with. We were more of a team before marriage then after. We even used to have conversations around guilt parenting for nrp dads and how that impacted dc negatively, we were totally on the same page about how our lives were going to be. It was so perfect and I was so happy.

He’s full of shit. There are many available men out there. Trust me.

There are men with no children. There are men who have children and are completely happy to date/ have a LTR without marriage/ Co habitting until the children are grown up. There are plenty of men with adult children.

Now I don’t have a magic ball that tells me your future. What I can tell you is this. I have no idea if I will meet someone again. I have no idea if I will get great chemistry with someone again. I have no idea how long I will be single for. I don’t know.

But I do know this. My home, with my children is blissful. There is no stress, no arguments. (Aside from the normal family bickering that features). There is no toxicity. It is chill. And it is invaluable.

It is also so good to not be dealing with a toxic narcissist who was messing with me constantly. I may remain single. But being single is ten times better than being with him. And I would pick this a hundred times over.

It’s hard, we’re trauma bonded for a reason. And it will take time. One day at a time is where you are right now. It’s going to be ok x

Just know. His words are designed to provoke a reaction. And they’ve worked. Be gentle on yourself, it’s ok. It’s early days x

So from a financial perspective you should be able to leave with what you brought into the marriage. I wasn't so lucky...as well as heartache I also lost out financially. Can you imagine losing half your equity and pension?? It is a real risk if you stay tied to this man.

Like you we had the incredible relationship, until marriage (which I delayed for years). Toxic relationships often start out on such a high and I really thought I had found the love of my life. Time and distance (plus uncovering information that I didn't know) has highlighted he manages to make most women he is with feel like this. He is a chameleon and morphs into someone different. I can see it how with his current woman.

This video might help you

@SnowWhitesSM

Candle my last boyfriend liked a beer a bit too much. One of the reasons we split was because I was fed up of not being able to do anything that didn't involve the pub. He was a boyfriend, not a step dad or over my house a great deal. Thats why h said that.

What did the email say sassbot?

I don't use the c word often but that's the thought that sprung to my head to the above. To use one persons history or something that you were told in confidence to kick someone in their sore spots is very Dave of him.

Sassbot is spot on.

I know you may not be angry the moment but I'm absolutely raging on your behalf. It's not constructive advice but think it's important to note one day the fog will lift and you will be even more mad than any of us combined.