When will the bath time stop?

[mannytomanny]

I have two DSC and one ours baby.
The DSC aged 10 girl and 7 boy come to ours after school two days a week.
I find these nights chaotic and messy.
These plans have been in place since the kids started school and goes like this
DH drives to pick them up from school (30 mins) and they come to ours with their bags including pjs which they have to take to school that morning, they do their homework while DH cooks them elaborately different meals to suit their particular likes (while messing up the kitchen) they get their bath, DH still washes the eldest hair(is this normal?) apparently they only wash their hair at ours.
Everything seems such a rush for them as they have to be back at their mums by half 6 and she's 40 mins away. House is left a mess which I do when DH is away, they leave their uniforms here and I wash them and pack them for them to take away next time.
Anyway when will the silly bath and pj thing no longer be appropriate, I just see it as an extra thing to cram in when really they should be able to be more relaxed... it's not a fun time for them it's like a military operation. They are packed into the car with wet hair and pjs for a long drive.
It's not an option to drop them off later either as DM is very strict with not having her evening ruined by late arrival of her children.

Why don't they just stay over and dh take them to school the following morning?

@lottiegarbanzo they are definitely not neglected at home, I think it's just easier for her orrrr it's always been this way sort of thing and the appropriateness of it all has sort of been lost in the passage of time. How can I even bring this up. I can't imagine telling him that I feel it's odd when it's the way they parent their own children, I might just hint more

FFS do not hint more. Have a conversation!

For example the youngest one is very clingy and I'm ashamed to say I dislike watching films as a family as she sits between DH and I and wants to hold and touch us all the time, like she strokes my hair and lies over us

I thought the youngest is a a boy aged 7??

There's plenty of time for them to have showers at home if they arrive by 6.30 - assume their bedtimes are 8-9pm.

I'd suggest they stay over on the evenings they come for tea - or for instance collect from school on a Tuesday, shower and bed at yours, drop to school on a Wednesday, pick them up for tea and drop home at 6.30pm for them to shower and go to bed there.

Hint more at what though? What do you want to happen?

It sounds like your DH is already doing the bare minimum of parenting with his two children, and if they stop coming during the week he will see them once a month? Surely you know that’s pathetic? I mean it’s understandable that the girl clings to her dad when she only stays over with him every third Saturday and ‘occasionally in the holidays.’

Sorry @NeedsCharging I meant oldest as I corrected above

What time do they usually go to bed? E.g. on the weekend when they stay over at yours. I am guessing NOT 6.40pm?

I would suggest either

• they stay at yours longer and arrive at mums ready for bed at bedtime which I imagine is around 8/8.30? That gives you more time between dinner and bath to have some quality time.

Or

• they are dropped home at 6.30 but in their school uniform and do bath time at home

@Playdoughcaterpillar

Sounds like a typical night with kids tbh so to a degree you have to accept. I think they should stay over instead.

Early tea, bathing them and pjs by 6.30pm sounds like a typical night with a 3yo and 5yo.

A typical night for a 7yo and 10yo is surely more like tea together as a family at 6, watch some TV together, shower themselves with a little help if needed at 7.30 or 8ish and some time reading quietly in bed before lights out at 9.

I dont think the sitting with you for movie time is a problem. DD is 14 and likes to lay on me when we watch movies. We are an affectionate family which I love as my own mother who loves me was never a hugger and it made me sad.

Honestly @DockOTheBay I sometimes go to bed before them when they are here, they don't have a bed time here annoyingly

[quote mannytomanny]@lottiegarbanzo they are definitely not neglected at home, I think it's just easier for her orrrr it's always been this way sort of thing and the appropriateness of it all has sort of been lost in the passage of time. How can I even bring this up. I can't imagine telling him that I feel it's odd when it's the way they parent their own children, I might just hint more [/quote]
I don’t think you need to hint at him. If he’s like my oh he won’t get hints. Just maybe bring up independence skills and suggest he might like to think about handing over the responsibility for some tasks to his daughter now she is older. Maybe mention the hair washing in the conte t that at about her age children will be expected to wash themselves after the swimming pool or wash themselves on a school residential. He maybe just hasn’t thought about it and so is infantilising them a bit.

It could be a really nice piece of parenting for him. He could let her choose her own shampoo etc to make it a special thing.

Obviously you shouldn’t have to prompt this as you aren’t her parent, but if you want to be supportive that might be a nice way to approach it.

Does he communicate with her mum about their changing needs?

How can I even bring this up don't hint about it! Just talk to him. I am guessing you are female. If so maybe say that when you were DSD's age it got a bit awkward bathing and stuff so you think it might help if she starts to learn to wash her own hair in preparation for when she gets self conscious about her dad doing it.

@Greenmarmalade Washing the 10 year old’s hair may have to be taken over by you soon, as she’s too old for her dad to be bathing her.

Hold up, my DSD are really close but she definitely wouldn't want me at that age in bath with her I'm her SM not her actual mum - she would view this as a massive boundary crossing and so would DM and me for that matter.
Frankly if she had to chose she would probably have her dad but only with gun to her head.

At 10 years old you would expect a child to be grown up enough to wash herself with a bit of aid for long hair if asked for.

Privacy at that age is key.

and the washing their clothes no need to hint either just say you're not doing it anymore

I agree @candlelightsatdawn. My DSC would be mortified I tried to wash them.

What's the issue with a straightforward discussion with your husband?
I guess at least you know what he is like as a parent so that if you ever split up you know what to expect from him on the parenting front.

Also don’t know why the mother is so reluctant to “put them to bed”. I mean, a 7 and 10 year olds bed time isn’t even a chore! It’s barely even an event! You just say got and have shower and do your teeth. Then you go up and say night night (and perhaps read a chapter of a book to the 7yo, depending on their reading ability.)
What a strange set up, the children are treated very differently to most children of that age.

@Peanutbuttercupisyum

Also don’t know why the mother is so reluctant to “put them to bed”. I mean, a 7 and 10 year olds bed time isn’t even a chore! It’s barely even an event! You just say got and have shower and do your teeth. Then you go up and say night night (and perhaps read a chapter of a book to the 7yo, depending on their reading ability.) What a strange set up, the children are treated very differently to most children of that age.

Because if they are infantilised, it underlines the need for them to not spend the night at their dads. It's time he took a step back and evaluated just why on Earth a 7 and 10 year old can't stay over, instead of getting caught up in the idea that they're still babies.

Also OP I have found sometimes people get caught up in a routine that was once age appropriate but now isn't.

It sounds like the ex has a lot of weight in your house over what goes down. I would speak to DH and say look I love you but this needs to change for the kids.

This bizarre routine will do them more damage. Every parent (I would hope) W wants try to enable your child to live a normal happy adult life . Therefore teach them skills to help the transition into adulthood basic skills such as washing . Babyfiying is going to cause damage, it takes away the child's independence and knocks self esteem so they become helpless and dependent on the adults. Then when they are adults they struggle.

On side note sounds like you have a Disney dad in the making here, noo that right in the bud. If overnight stays happen more frequently discuss the bedtime routine and house rules, this will make you feel less panicked about them staying the night.

Look what the ex has done with this routine, your both reliant on this routine and haven't felt empowered enough to change it ! Your the adults, you can intervene here. What goes down in your house is your house rules. Set them

As a point of curiosity - sorry for thread hijack - my own two SC are the exact same ages as the two in this post (7 and 10)

At their mums, their bed times are 6.30 and 7.30 respectively. We think this is a bit early and it means they wake up at 5am on school days and go downstairs on their own to watch tv for 3 hours before school. Is this normal? My DH and I find it a little odd but sometimes it's hard to get clarity on these things. And to know when we might just be being unnecessarily critical?

All of this sounds odd to me.

The dad: he's doing so little parenting, and it doesn't sound like he's proactive in trying to increase it. The CMS amount is the recommended minimum - the doesn't have to reduce it because they stay over rather than going home after dinner. Why does his ex have the impression he'd reduce the maintenance? Is he that pedantic about paying as little as possible?

The ex: yeah the timings are weird. They should either stay over, or return later, or get ready for bed at home. It clearly worked in the past, but I'd an arrangement that needs updating.

You: messy and chaotic is just the default of working and having school age kids. Quite often we've got about an hour and a half between getting home to cook, feed, bathe, get ready for bed and do bed routine etc, for 2 under 5's. Its just what juggling everything and parenting is like for a lot of us. Its nowhere near as chaotic as trying to get them out in the morning!

And the sitting in between you on the sofa. That's totally normal. I can barely hug my husband sometimes for a small person pushing themselves unto the middle.

Some of this seems alien now because your child is still a baby.

@PingedPotato

Washing the 10 year old’s hair may have to be taken over by you soon, as she’s too old for her dad to be bathing her. if she doesn't want her dad washing her hair then she why would she want her step mum to do it?!

My partner’s oldest daughter is 11 (but a young 11 in lots of ways) and she wouldn’t want her dad washing her hair. If she did ever need help with bathing/changing for whatever reason then it would be up to her to decide who she wanted to help her- I imagine it might be me, but I can’t say for certain.

I guess what I’m getting at is I think once I got to certain age I’d rather a woman saw me naked than a man, even if that man was my dad!

@Moonbabysmum
Well I'm just assuming why that's why they don't stay the night, it's never been said, maybe it's more like previously mentioned that that's what happened when they were babies DH left when youngest was months old. He doesn't pay through CMS he pays 600pcm private arrangement and they have a full day Saturday and occasionally Saturday night together too
Tbh I obviously don't know as much as I should about why this arrangement is in place, I don't like to make a fuss about it if it works for them, if I try to change things and it doesn't work for someone then I'll be interfering. I suppose I just despair a bit and think... how long will this arrangement last

@PeeAche

As a point of curiosity - sorry for thread hijack - my own two SC are the exact same ages as the two in this post (7 and 10)

At their mums, their bed times are 6.30 and 7.30 respectively. We think this is a bit early and it means they wake up at 5am on school days and go downstairs on their own to watch tv for 3 hours before school. Is this normal? My DH and I find it a little odd but sometimes it's hard to get clarity on these things. And to know when we might just be being unnecessarily critical?

That's unusually early. My 4 year old goes to bed at 7.30pm.

If they're waking at 5am then they should be going to bed at 8.30 and 9.30 so they wake at 7am?
If the 10 year old goes on a school residential trip or Scouts they will be sent to bed at 9.30!

Sounds like adults prefer to have a child-free evening and then leave the kids to their own devices for hours in the morning.