Small DC STILL being hurt by older DSC, it's not really normal is it?

[MyDDtheStrawberryThief]

My two little ones age 2 and 3 keep getting hurt when DSC ages 8 and 9 are playing with them. They are too rough and have no concept of responsible play, choosing to play fight with (and around) them as though they were the same age.

This is particularly the case with eldest DSS (9) who picks them up and spins them around, plonking them down onto the sofa or throwing them down onto it.

After a particularly scary incident earlier in the year where DD (then age around 16 months) was dropped onto her head by eldest DSS onto the floor from his standing height as part of a "game" I imposed a blanket rule that they were not to pick them up again. I posted about this on here at the time.

They conveniently forget this despite constant firm reminders from me and I ended up having a row with OH about It after a further two incidents yesterday (and one last week where DD was whipped with a toy stethoscope which left a bruise because DSS was wafting it around near her)

DS was hurt yet again yesterday by eldest DSC body slamming him into the sofa yesterday 'playing' which resulted in him thumping his head into the hard frame on the back of the. DS was just sat on the sofa with his tablet minding his own business. This resulted in a 30 minute long meltdown where he was inconsolable and couldn't compose himself. He was in pain and his way of dealing with that was sadly to bang his own head repeatedly on the floor whilst screaming (he's autistic)

DD also got whacked square in the face by their football when we were at the park because they thought it was a good idea to blast the ball about where small children were playing, in the direction of said children.

My OH meekly addresses such things by asking them to apologise and be more careful because, in his mind, they are accidents and accidents happen.

If there is a particularly bad incident (the stethoscope is a recent example) OH will get 'no nonsense' about safety for all of 5 minutes but no real consequences are imposed, on this occasion youngest DSS just shouted at him then sulked. He came out of his mood after 10 minutes, made up with OH and all was forgotten.

When I was rowing about it with him today he said they don't mean to hurt them and it's just kids being kids for the most part although he can understand why I'm angry and he doesn't like seeing the smaller DC hurt either.

He said he doesn't know what the answer is short of telling them they can't play full stop and have to just remain seated (he was being sarcastic obviously) as he's told them so many times already and if they don't listen or retain what he's saying then he's at a loss because being boisterous and rambunctious is essentially who they are and the only alternative is to have them sat down playing on screens

Im expecting a baby next month and to be honest I'm concerned about baby being hurt aswell. It hasn't always been this way they have gotten much 'worse' with age.

So tell me, is all of this is par for the course? Do you think it's to be expected that younger siblings will end up hurt by older siblings?

I'm at the stage now where I don't feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised and that isn't ideal because like every other parent, I can't keep my eyes on them for every second they're here, much less with a new baby.

I think I'm prepared to end my relationship over this, accidents or not.

AIBU?

You won’t be the ‘problem’, obviously it will be your deadbeat boyfriend. Why does he keep producing kid after kid when he couldn’t give a shite about them? Is it because he just palms them off onto whatever latest woman will tolerate this nonsense? Gross. Get the pointless leech out of your property.

The older children need a serious talking to about this. they are old enough to understand issues like this. It's not a case of children being children and being boisterous, its a case of seriously telling them, that small children can get hurt, simply because they are smaller than bigger children. You maybe will have to repeat these messages to them, until they understand, and act a bit better in the home. I wouldn't mess around with this. you have to stay firm with some kind of discipline.

I'm not going to budge on it this time I've made that crystal clear to him, the line has been drawn.

It's both saddening and maddening because he's not a bad person, he's just totally clueless as to how to parent the two sets properly and fairly which isn't good enough.

Throw in NRP guilt and how he clearly feels sorry for the oldest ones having to go between two homes, it's a recipe for disaster.

He's blinkered by his guilt and love for the oldest ones he just can't comprehend that any of it could be deliberate.

None of that matters though because the facts remain the same, the smaller ones are being hurt in their own home and that's not ok.

He echoed what he said yesterday about how they'd never hurt the smaller ones on purpose and how surely I must see that.

Even if this is the case, can he not understand that whether they mean to do it or not, it needs to stop!

Ask him how he will feel when one of the little ones ends up with a broken neck? None of this is accidental or rough play. It really isn't.

I don't believe it's all accidental either. At 9 most kids would know that if there's a pattern of the smaller ones being hurt when you do certain things, you just shouldn't be doing them.

Ask him how he would like someone twice his size to slam into him or drop him on his head.

I hate the whole “it was an accident” / “they didn’t mean to” argument. It’s so incredibly stupid and missing the point. Does your OH think a serious injury will magically disappear because “they didn’t mean to do it?” That the little ones are somehow protected from damage because there was no intent? What about the emotional damage to the older children, knowing that they caused grave injury to their siblings?

If you run down somebody with your car on accident, are they still dead? Do they only die if you meant to hit them?

Fantasy thinking, especially by an adult. Also emotionally manipulative. It’s confusing cause and effect with blame. They are actually two completely independent things.

Yep… I call BS too. My brother (who is 3yrs younger) used to “accidentally hurt me all the time and when I was being seen to, he’d turn on the waterworks and I’D get in trouble for “upsetting” him. When he was being comforted by my mum (often food, money, toys were the result also), he’d stare coldly at me looking like he’d won something. He broke my arm and I was yelled at for frightening him and making him feel guilty. It may not shock you to discover that when my mum died, he assumed that I would take her place in his life. He’s utterly screwed up and Machiavellian. Uh… no. I have my own kids. He isn’t safe for them to be around

@MyDDtheStrawberryThief

I don't believe it's all accidental either. At 9 most kids would know that if there's a pattern of the smaller ones being hurt when you do certain things, you just shouldn't be doing them.

I agree. And as for you not being able to discipline them, if they hurt your child you are allowed to shout at them in my opinion.

Glad you've had the chat with your OP. Agree with PP even if they didn't mean to do it that doesn't somehow mean your children aren't at risk of serious injury. There isn't an undo button.

And if he's so narrow minded that it needs framing in terms of the effect on DSC then how about they could be potentially scared for life with guilt if they do serious injury to a small child.

@TryingToBeLogical

I hate the whole “it was an accident” / “they didn’t mean to” argument. It’s so incredibly stupid and missing the point. Does your OH think a serious injury will magically disappear because “they didn’t mean to do it?” That the little ones are somehow protected from damage because there was no intent? What about the emotional damage to the older children, knowing that they caused grave injury to their siblings?

If you run down somebody with your car on accident, are they still dead? Do they only die if you meant to hit them?

Fantasy thinking, especially by an adult. Also emotionally manipulative. It’s confusing cause and effect with blame. They are actually two completely independent things.

This is a very, very good point. I remember your first post about this, OP. I think you’re right to say enough’s enough at this point.

@TryingToBeLogical

I hate the whole “it was an accident” / “they didn’t mean to” argument. It’s so incredibly stupid and missing the point. Does your OH think a serious injury will magically disappear because “they didn’t mean to do it?” That the little ones are somehow protected from damage because there was no intent? What about the emotional damage to the older children, knowing that they caused grave injury to their siblings?

If you run down somebody with your car on accident, are they still dead? Do they only die if you meant to hit them?

Fantasy thinking, especially by an adult. Also emotionally manipulative. It’s confusing cause and effect with blame. They are actually two completely independent things.

Agree this is a brilliant perspective.

And I have no doubt that some parents are so far down the road of delusion and guilt that they genuinely believe the fantasy thinking you’ve described here.

At the very least, if all these incidents have been accidents your OH needs to accept that he’s not effectively managing the situation. The environment for the younger children needs to be safe and the fact they’re getting hurt, repeatedly, is evidence enough it’s not. Whether intentional or not, the blame should still fall to him if he’s not able or willing to supervise them adequately.

@TryingToBeLogical

I hate the whole “it was an accident” / “they didn’t mean to” argument. It’s so incredibly stupid and missing the point. Does your OH think a serious injury will magically disappear because “they didn’t mean to do it?” That the little ones are somehow protected from damage because there was no intent? What about the emotional damage to the older children, knowing that they caused grave injury to their siblings?

If you run down somebody with your car on accident, are they still dead? Do they only die if you meant to hit them?

Fantasy thinking, especially by an adult. Also emotionally manipulative. It’s confusing cause and effect with blame. They are actually two completely independent things.

Absolutely. I am faced with a similar situation right now and my DH says I don’t see the good interactions, only the bad. I asked him if he thinks my DC will grow up thinking they didn’t mind getting knocked about cause sometimes their half brother was nice to them, or if he’d say the same to a victim of domestic abuse.

Something isn't an accident if it's the result of behaviour the elder child has repeatedly been told to stop.

It's absolutely inevitable the smaller children will get hurt if a 9 year old is throwing them around and body slamming then.

It's been demonstrated to be true and thus the fact it keeps happening makes it a deliberate act.

If you do something deliberately then you did mean it.

At 9 years of age it's 100% expected that they should know not to be rough around 2/3 year old children less than half their size.

Your DH needs to wake up. It's not horseplay and it's not accidental.

They see the younger children as toys not people. This is worrying.

Am I sexist for reading this and assuming that the stepchildren are boys? I’m sorry but I just can’t imagine girls being so dangerously rough! Perhaps that’s nurture as much as nature because we teach girls (whether deliberately or inadvertently) to be gentle and considerate of others and write off boys being rough and inconsiderate as “boys will be boys”.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

Am I sexist for reading this and assuming that the stepchildren are boys? I’m sorry but I just can’t imagine girls being so dangerously rough! Perhaps that’s nurture as much as nature because we teach girls (whether deliberately or inadvertently) to be gentle and considerate of others and write off boys being rough and inconsiderate as “boys will be boys”.

I assumed they were boys as OP has written Oldest and Youngest DSS but I guess that could be Step Sister.

Your DC are entitled to feel safe in their own home. At the moment they're not.

Whether it's accidental or intentional behaviour your DC keep on getting hurt by their step-siblings and your OH is as much use as a wet lettuce.

For the DC's safety and your own peace of mind this has to stop now. With a third baby the risks are just going to get higher.

There are nine years between my two DC. My eldest would never have harmed a hair on the youngest's head. I can still remember her crying in sympathy when he burst into tears after a vaccination. It is disquieting that the DSS do not seem to care at all when they have hurt the younger ones.

I have an 8 year old DD with ASD and rather low empathy. I read your post and couldn't imagine her being like that as she is so sweet and careful playing with the 3 year old next door. Then I thought about what she'd be like if she was very jealous... sadly you have to protect the younger ones.

Yes it’s incredibly sexist. My children (older than my partners children) are boys and they would never harm younger / vulnerable children. They may roughhouse with friends a same age but would never behave this way with younger children.

One of my friends older step children children however (female) has behaved in shocking ways to not only her younger half siblings. But cats in her home. They now will not leave her unattended around either the pets or younger children.

@MyDDtheStrawberryThief

My two little ones age 2 and 3 keep getting hurt when DSC ages 8 and 9 are playing with them. They are too rough and have no concept of responsible play, choosing to play fight with (and around) them as though they were the same age.

This is particularly the case with eldest DSS (9) who picks them up and spins them around, plonking them down onto the sofa or throwing them down onto it.

After a particularly scary incident earlier in the year where DD (then age around 16 months) was dropped onto her head by eldest DSS onto the floor from his standing height as part of a "game" I imposed a blanket rule that they were not to pick them up again. I posted about this on here at the time.

They conveniently forget this despite constant firm reminders from me and I ended up having a row with OH about It after a further two incidents yesterday (and one last week where DD was whipped with a toy stethoscope which left a bruise because DSS was wafting it around near her)

DS was hurt yet again yesterday by eldest DSC body slamming him into the sofa yesterday 'playing' which resulted in him thumping his head into the hard frame on the back of the. DS was just sat on the sofa with his tablet minding his own business. This resulted in a 30 minute long meltdown where he was inconsolable and couldn't compose himself. He was in pain and his way of dealing with that was sadly to bang his own head repeatedly on the floor whilst screaming (he's autistic)

DD also got whacked square in the face by their football when we were at the park because they thought it was a good idea to blast the ball about where small children were playing, in the direction of said children.

My OH meekly addresses such things by asking them to apologise and be more careful because, in his mind, they are accidents and accidents happen.

If there is a particularly bad incident (the stethoscope is a recent example) OH will get 'no nonsense' about safety for all of 5 minutes but no real consequences are imposed, on this occasion youngest DSS just shouted at him then sulked. He came out of his mood after 10 minutes, made up with OH and all was forgotten.

When I was rowing about it with him today he said they don't mean to hurt them and it's just kids being kids for the most part although he can understand why I'm angry and he doesn't like seeing the smaller DC hurt either.

He said he doesn't know what the answer is short of telling them they can't play full stop and have to just remain seated (he was being sarcastic obviously) as he's told them so many times already and if they don't listen or retain what he's saying then he's at a loss because being boisterous and rambunctious is essentially who they are and the only alternative is to have them sat down playing on screens

Im expecting a baby next month and to be honest I'm concerned about baby being hurt aswell. It hasn't always been this way they have gotten much 'worse' with age.

So tell me, is all of this is par for the course? Do you think it's to be expected that younger siblings will end up hurt by older siblings?

I'm at the stage now where I don't feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised and that isn't ideal because like every other parent, I can't keep my eyes on them for every second they're here, much less with a new baby.

I think I'm prepared to end my relationship over this, accidents or not.

AIBU?

In your position I would have punched the DSS in the face by now so you have been really patient. Honestly, I think leaving him is the best thing you can do. He is not going to change.

@BreadInCaptivity

Something isn't an accident if it's the result of behaviour the elder child has repeatedly been told to stop.

It's absolutely inevitable the smaller children will get hurt if a 9 year old is throwing them around and body slamming then.

It's been demonstrated to be true and thus the fact it keeps happening makes it a deliberate act.

If you do something deliberately then you did mean it.

At 9 years of age it's 100% expected that they should know not to be rough around 2/3 year old children less than half their size.

Your DH needs to wake up. It's not horseplay and it's not accidental.

Yes this

Thank you all for talking to me. I've returned to the thread a few times today to read the replies and it has really helped me stand firm in my position and not be derailed by his "they would never hurt them on purpose"

We spoke briefly when he got home from work and the gist of that was that they're so used to play fighting and rough housing with each other it's basically their default play style. Cue me repeating what PP said about how it makes no difference whether they intend to hurt them or not because it happens and that's the only fact that matters.

I'm not having them here anymore so he can say what he likes to his ex. My kids don't need it and I don't need it either.

I'm bracing myself now to be painted black and told this was what I wanted all along, the kids ostracized etc.

Those of you who've advised me over the last year or so will know that's not the case and I've put up with so much shit for the sake of keeping everyone together. No longer.