Small DC STILL being hurt by older DSC, it's not really normal is it?

[MyDDtheStrawberryThief]

My two little ones age 2 and 3 keep getting hurt when DSC ages 8 and 9 are playing with them. They are too rough and have no concept of responsible play, choosing to play fight with (and around) them as though they were the same age.

This is particularly the case with eldest DSS (9) who picks them up and spins them around, plonking them down onto the sofa or throwing them down onto it.

After a particularly scary incident earlier in the year where DD (then age around 16 months) was dropped onto her head by eldest DSS onto the floor from his standing height as part of a "game" I imposed a blanket rule that they were not to pick them up again. I posted about this on here at the time.

They conveniently forget this despite constant firm reminders from me and I ended up having a row with OH about It after a further two incidents yesterday (and one last week where DD was whipped with a toy stethoscope which left a bruise because DSS was wafting it around near her)

DS was hurt yet again yesterday by eldest DSC body slamming him into the sofa yesterday 'playing' which resulted in him thumping his head into the hard frame on the back of the. DS was just sat on the sofa with his tablet minding his own business. This resulted in a 30 minute long meltdown where he was inconsolable and couldn't compose himself. He was in pain and his way of dealing with that was sadly to bang his own head repeatedly on the floor whilst screaming (he's autistic)

DD also got whacked square in the face by their football when we were at the park because they thought it was a good idea to blast the ball about where small children were playing, in the direction of said children.

My OH meekly addresses such things by asking them to apologise and be more careful because, in his mind, they are accidents and accidents happen.

If there is a particularly bad incident (the stethoscope is a recent example) OH will get 'no nonsense' about safety for all of 5 minutes but no real consequences are imposed, on this occasion youngest DSS just shouted at him then sulked. He came out of his mood after 10 minutes, made up with OH and all was forgotten.

When I was rowing about it with him today he said they don't mean to hurt them and it's just kids being kids for the most part although he can understand why I'm angry and he doesn't like seeing the smaller DC hurt either.

He said he doesn't know what the answer is short of telling them they can't play full stop and have to just remain seated (he was being sarcastic obviously) as he's told them so many times already and if they don't listen or retain what he's saying then he's at a loss because being boisterous and rambunctious is essentially who they are and the only alternative is to have them sat down playing on screens

Im expecting a baby next month and to be honest I'm concerned about baby being hurt aswell. It hasn't always been this way they have gotten much 'worse' with age.

So tell me, is all of this is par for the course? Do you think it's to be expected that younger siblings will end up hurt by older siblings?

I'm at the stage now where I don't feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised and that isn't ideal because like every other parent, I can't keep my eyes on them for every second they're here, much less with a new baby.

I think I'm prepared to end my relationship over this, accidents or not.

AIBU?

@AnneLovesGilbert

You’re not. He’s being a horrible father to both sets of children and doesn’t seem to care at all.

It’s our job to teach our children how to behave towards others. He’s failing. I remember the thread about your DD being dropped on her head and it’s astounding that it wasn’t enough to stop him in his tracks and start doing some fucking parenting.

But it didn’t, so you know he won’t ever change and this is the time to call it a day.

I really feel for you but you’ve got to follow this through. You will never forgive yourself if you don’t.

I completely agree with this. I remember your previous thread too. It is true that he is being a shit parent to both sets of children.

You need consequences.
If you hurt the babies you will get no treats/ pudding/ tablet time/ football or whatever they have to lose. There are no consequences so it’s not a big deal to them and there’s no reason not to continue to torment you and the smaller kids.

Op, no this isn’t remotely normal behaviour. And yes by 8 and 9 those children are fully cognizant that they are hurting the younger ones. Now what they may not be in control of/ understand is the emotions they are struggling with that mean they do this to the younger ones, but they will very much understand that a a younger toddler crying for 30 mins after being rough housed is completely unacceptable.

To be clear my DC and my partners DC have similar age gaps. Not once, in over 5 years has there been even one incident of rough housing at this level. Why? Well it’s similar to what Tatler has advised.

1. don’t leave the children alone. Just don’t. I did this because my partners exwife has history of repeated unfounded allegations so I actually wouldn’t leave them alone in order to safeguard my older children from false allegations. I would do the exact same if the position was reversed and younger children were getting hurt
2. Ruthlessly separate them and make zero apology for it. This is not about you disciplining his kids - this is about you protecting yours. And right now you’re failing them, miserably. His older kids cannot play safely with yours, remove the children and create that space for you and yours. And make zero apologies about it. Your children are being bullied in their own home and I’m stunned you’re allowing it. Protect your children.
3. Your partner. Tackle this. Either he steps up and parents or he doesn’t. Why are you allowing him to not protect younger children? And normalise this horrible situation? None of this is normal.

He’s allowing the younger children to be bullied. As are you. This situation will not improve when the baby arrives.

I’m sorry my message as I’ve read it sounds so unsupportive but I’m just furious. For these poor little children and right now both parents are allowing them to be physically bullied.

It’s madness. Put a stop to it now and protect your children.

They're not generally naughty, least of all the eldest who if anything is always eager to please and not get in trouble because he absolutely hates being told off and gets into a total state when he is.

It sounds very like a smallish boy of my acquaintance who is eager and desperate to please, because of insecure attachment issues. This means that he’s not always capable of regulating his emotions, though - it’s not like with a child who makes a poor choice/mistake, you tell them off, it all settles back down. He’s racked with these terrible emotions around being told off (what if they don’t love me anymore) and so it results in a real meltdown. In addition, because of insecure attachment, if he feels a bit jealous he doesn’t know how to regulate that and then it can result in the sort of behaviour you describe - wilful but not exactly deliberate endangering behaviour or pushing the boundaries.

He’s a beautiful little boy but the behaviour has to be managed regardless of the cause. If your DH cannot do that to keep your other DC safe then you are obliged to.

Bananarama21
“Why do you keep having dc op when there's already 4 kids in the household it sounds completely chaotic some of it sounds accidential but could they also be jealous they been just the two of them to now three small children soon I a small amount of time.”

I found out when I was 16 weeks pregnant despite being on contraception. However that's not what I asked for advice about.

Not that you should have to explain yourself to rude questions OP.

I’m sorry that your relationship has come to this @MyDDtheStrawberryThief. Unfortunately a lot of men know all the words to use to give the appearance of being deeply involved parents. When they have their kids on access days, they do the performance parenting with the sole intention of baiting another gf to take over the nannying responsibilities for them. They reel them in slowly, and the new woman doesn’t realise this until she has invested time, fallen in love with the kids, bought a house or even better, become further entrenched by becoming pregnant and/or financially dependent on him. These men don’t have the empathy, energy or genuine intention to follow through on any of the promises they give their second wife/gf, and promptly re-partner after breaking up again.

I have not read all of the replies to you so may well be reapting what other have said.
This was perfectly normal with my siblings and is normal.wkth my kids. HOWEVER before anyone leaps on me that does not mean it is acceptable. I am constantly separating kids into different areas and tending to accidents because they do happen. I also find with kids that if you don't remind them constantly then they do forget especially movi.g between 2 houses different expectations etc.
That being said i think the main problem is you are not backed up that makes the difference. I think you need to have a long hard chat with your DH and if nothing changes then definitely think about leaving your not asking for anything unreasonable.

This is horrible and no not normal at all. I feel like I'm being a bit alarmist to say this but I wonder if one ends up in hospital they would see these historic injuries and really start to question if you're protecting them?

My ex dsd used to hurt my dd (think, burning her with straighteners) and it was always an "accident" but the telling thing was her reaction. Most of us would be horrified to have hurt a small child and apologise profusely but she just showed no remorse at all and it seems your step kids are similar.

It all sounds very worrying and yes, I'd leave

@theseoldbone how did you deal with that?

Well for a while I told myself it was accidents, but as it got more frequent and I couldn't see any remorse I had to just keep them separate. My DH knew the rule but one day I came home from a night out and found the girls in the bath together (mine 7, his 15) on their own and I lost my rag. I never left her after that and we separated soon after. I just couldn't have my dd in that environment and I couldn't make sure 100% they wouldn't be alone together unless we didn't live there.

@Magda72 You're right I was so upset by the description of the youngest child being injured by the eldest son. I hope the OP can get resolution and peace in her home

Thank you for the replies. I have spoken to OH this morning. I'm still full of anxiety.

I was hoping for a productive conversation but it was mainly one sided, me talking and him listening and not saying much in response. He echoed what he said yesterday about how they'd never hurt the smaller ones on purpose and how surely I must see that. I told him that I used to think the same way but can't be so sure anymore given the frequency of it happening. I said that i feel like I'm neglecting my children by continuing to allow contact under this roof when he has shown that he can't/won't keep his older ones in check.

I said I thought it was for the best that he starts looking for somewhere else to live if he can't guarantee it wouldn't happen again which I know he couldn't because history kept repeating itself.

I'm not sure how seriously he has taken me as after leaving for work he text me on his lunch break as though everything was fine and dandy, but I'm not backing down.

My ex dsd used to hurt my dd (think, burning her with straighteners) and it was always an "accident" but the telling thing was her reaction. Most of us would be horrified to have hurt a small child and apologise profusely but she just showed no remorse at all and it seems your step kids are similar.

This really leapt out at me because after DS was badly hurt the other day DSS didn't seem to care at all, infact he was trying to get my attention to tell me about something trivial (computer game) as I was knelt on the floor trying to console an inconsolable DS.

Thinking back to when he dropped DD on the floor and she was in tears, he only started showing any emotion himself once he knew he was going to be told off - which he wasn't in the end by OH because when OH saw him acting distressed he comforted him instead.

OP your Partner is missing the point. Whether they mean to hurt the smaller ones is not relevant. They are and it needs addressing. Don’t put him on the birth certificate, my advice is get him out of your house. He’s not responsible and is dragging you all down. His boys need some time with him, you’d be doing them all a favour

Yeah I'm sorry they sound very dangerous. My Dd has a half sibling now on her dad's side and she is fiercely protective of her and gets upset if she falls down and grazes her knee. That's a normal reaction to seeing a small person hurt.

"Thinking back to when he dropped DD on the floor and she was in tears, he only started showing any emotion himself once he knew he was going to be told off - which he wasn't in the end by OH because when OH saw him acting distressed he comforted him instead."

I find that chilling.

It must be a horrible position to be in, but you’re doing the right thing in protecting your children.

Op

That sounds intentional, I’m sorry.
Be very vigilant.
Can you have a friend / relative come and stay over till DP is gone?

Unfortunately I don't have much in the way of RL support no. I'm not from here and the only relative I have locally is dysfunctional and not able to provide any support at all. I'm very much on my own with it all which is why I have relied on MN over the past year to sift through everything.

“I struggle to effectively discipline them as it has been made clear (by their mother) that it's not my place, so short of verbal telling and redirection I depend on OH to enforce consequences as they're his kids - but he's certainly falling short”

To be honest if they’re staying in your house and your husband isn’t disciplining them, then of course you’re perfectly within your rights to give them a bollocking and enforce consequences.

My step son was five when our son was born and he’s never hurt him, accidentally or otherwise. They sound like they need reading the riot act.

I actually feel quite ill from worrying about all of this. I'm an anxious person at the best of times because I have (diagnosed) PTSD and can feel quite poorly at times of high stress

It doesn't sound like he's taken you seriously at all, which is par for the course it seems. He thinks he can make you think its you being unreasonable again. Keep re-reading this thread and don't let him.

That's the plan, Youseethe.

That really is dreadful. I have similar aged children and the older one has never and would never do anything to hurt the younger one deliberately. Good luck going forwards

@Pantsomime
Don’t put him on the birth certificate,

That's dreadful advice. He's their father. How do you think that makes the child feel to see their siblings with their father's name on the certificate and a blank on theirs? I'd be so upset if my certificate implied that my father was unknown. I think some people are so intent on their own struggle with the other parent, they give little thought to the child. Fortunately the op seems a kind a sensible person and wouldn't do that to their child.