Small DC STILL being hurt by older DSC, it's not really normal is it?

[MyDDtheStrawberryThief]

My two little ones age 2 and 3 keep getting hurt when DSC ages 8 and 9 are playing with them. They are too rough and have no concept of responsible play, choosing to play fight with (and around) them as though they were the same age.

This is particularly the case with eldest DSS (9) who picks them up and spins them around, plonking them down onto the sofa or throwing them down onto it.

After a particularly scary incident earlier in the year where DD (then age around 16 months) was dropped onto her head by eldest DSS onto the floor from his standing height as part of a "game" I imposed a blanket rule that they were not to pick them up again. I posted about this on here at the time.

They conveniently forget this despite constant firm reminders from me and I ended up having a row with OH about It after a further two incidents yesterday (and one last week where DD was whipped with a toy stethoscope which left a bruise because DSS was wafting it around near her)

DS was hurt yet again yesterday by eldest DSC body slamming him into the sofa yesterday 'playing' which resulted in him thumping his head into the hard frame on the back of the. DS was just sat on the sofa with his tablet minding his own business. This resulted in a 30 minute long meltdown where he was inconsolable and couldn't compose himself. He was in pain and his way of dealing with that was sadly to bang his own head repeatedly on the floor whilst screaming (he's autistic)

DD also got whacked square in the face by their football when we were at the park because they thought it was a good idea to blast the ball about where small children were playing, in the direction of said children.

My OH meekly addresses such things by asking them to apologise and be more careful because, in his mind, they are accidents and accidents happen.

If there is a particularly bad incident (the stethoscope is a recent example) OH will get 'no nonsense' about safety for all of 5 minutes but no real consequences are imposed, on this occasion youngest DSS just shouted at him then sulked. He came out of his mood after 10 minutes, made up with OH and all was forgotten.

When I was rowing about it with him today he said they don't mean to hurt them and it's just kids being kids for the most part although he can understand why I'm angry and he doesn't like seeing the smaller DC hurt either.

He said he doesn't know what the answer is short of telling them they can't play full stop and have to just remain seated (he was being sarcastic obviously) as he's told them so many times already and if they don't listen or retain what he's saying then he's at a loss because being boisterous and rambunctious is essentially who they are and the only alternative is to have them sat down playing on screens

Im expecting a baby next month and to be honest I'm concerned about baby being hurt aswell. It hasn't always been this way they have gotten much 'worse' with age.

So tell me, is all of this is par for the course? Do you think it's to be expected that younger siblings will end up hurt by older siblings?

I'm at the stage now where I don't feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised and that isn't ideal because like every other parent, I can't keep my eyes on them for every second they're here, much less with a new baby.

I think I'm prepared to end my relationship over this, accidents or not.

AIBU?

I'm going to do it for my children's sake. I'll be painted as the bad one but so be it.

Not by your little ones. You’re being the mum they need and deserve by putting them first.

Do you have help around in family or friends to support you when your baby arrives?

This is a shit time for you right now, keep posting for support from us randoms on here. You’ve made the right decision. Try and sleep.

Ask the night watch thread to take care of your worries tonight if it’ll help you rest.

I’m sorry you are struggling with this in your pregnancy. I hope you find you can sleep.

This makes me wonder whether a word with your health visitor would help, so there is something on record. Once you speak to a professional about the hurting though, there will be no going back, you'll need to have your plan in place to leave.
This.
Their behaviour is NOT normal & I'm someone who works with kids/teens. Whatever issues they may have are not your concern in that their behavioural issues are the responsibility of their parents.
Your dp has proven over & over that he has no intention of dealing with them. In your situation I would get my concerns logged & then get dp to leave.
You must be so stressed with being pregnant so take care of yourself.

OP, your leaving or remaining in the relationship is not going to ensure that your children are not in contact with their siblings. Your partner will be granted some form of shared custody/visitation, and the only difference will be that you won't be present to intervene.

The problem is that both you and the father are aware that , at least for now, these children need to be separated when there is not an adult physically present and attentive.

I would doubt that there are any negative intentions on the part of your young step children. I would also imagine that your very young children are eager to interact with their siblings.

You are blaming you husband for not imposing consequences. Consequences come after the fact or as a result of an act. Your situation requires proactive intervention and separation of these children until they are older. This is an inconvenient solution but not an impossible solution.

These children should not be left alone together until such time as they are all old enough to understand the serious consequences of rough housing. Their should be designated spots for both the younger and the older children to play and both areas should be closely monitored.

It is pointless to see who should understand what when you have repeated indicators that none of these children adequately understand what they are being told.

Having a self harming autistic child , hyper diligence is going to be on going part of your parenting process. That won't be the fault of the child but simply the nature of your parenting process.

The current situation also requires that kind of hyper vigilance until all of the children involved understand to the best of their individual abilities the boundaries that have to be observed.

All of the children have a right to have some amount of free play space, and they also have a right to be safe from risk. Your circumstances create a need for more vigilance than might be required in different circumstances .

It is not the lack of consequences that is creating the problem but rather the lack of separated space and the lack of a fully present adult intervener.

This won't be an easy situation any time soon particularly with another child soon to be added to the mix, but maybe you can reconfigure the playing space and work out a dedicated schedule of adult supervision.

I'd tell your partner that you're seriously considering ending the relationship over safety concerns and that there's a disparity between the discipline of the the children.

In the short term I would get a playpen fence. Cordon off an area for the young ones and I'd stay there with them for the most part. It's not the most convenient solution but at least while the baby is small you may find yourself freed up in a sense.

I'd also get a camera in the main playing space.

Also I know the mum doesn't want you to discipline them and that's fine but it is your home and so you do get a say over what goes on in it. If the older children are rough housing too much for your liking you are entitled to send them out into the garden or tell them to stop.

Right… time to set him straight on boundaries then. As you are not allowed to parent his kids, he is going to have to do it all from now on. You will not be available to babysit, clean, do laundry, feed, do shopping or drive them anywhere. You won’t participate in bed times, bath times or any “family rituals” and you will not be contributing financially towards them in any way. This means birthdays, Christmas, other kids birthday parties, etc… He is going to have to step up his game and grow a pair of Daddyballs.
This may involve him moving out.

If your husband is capable of being firmed with your children, then he's capable of being firm with the stepchildren. Surely he can work out that yes, accidents happen, but they can be prevented by a bit of common sense and forethought, and that his children obviously need to learn that? I find it difficult to believe that they get away with that behaviour at school, so maybe he needs to talk to their teachers about what techniques work.

But really it isn't difficult: every time they cause damage or injuries through sheer bloody carelessness, they get punished with withdrawal of a treat, pocket money, screen time etc. They really will learn if they discover there are consequences.

Obviously you have to do what you think is best for your children. But won't your partner end up getting shared custody and then your children will be alone with their step-brothers without even you there. Do you think your partner will step up then? I don't think you'd be able to dictate that he keeps all his children apart.

He is going to have to step up his game and grow a pair of Daddyballs

This needs to be said on every Disney Dad thread.

You don't get your wife to do the grunt work of parenting without any ability to discipline SC whilst simultaneously refusing to do it yourself.

I would absolutely not have stayed in a relationship like this.

The concept that SM's and second families should accept/tolerate poor behaviour from
Ex partners/step children is as unacceptable as SM's and their children dishing it out in reverse.

What's worse is a weak partner who facilities this situation by supporting neither of the people involved.

The OP's DH isn't helping his wife, any of his children or even his ex in raising children with good boundaries.

He's just being a lazy parent doing whatever causes him the least hassle.

So these problems your partner has been exhibiting with his kids have just cropped up? You never had doubts until you reached your eighth month of pregnancy with your third child with him and his fifth child overall? Right then-own up to the fact that you knew he was a dithering Disney dad for a long time but you're now ready to take a stand about it! You're an adult,you have personal choice and freedoms-your children don't. They're the ones stuck in this crappy situation. It's maddening to read these threads where one partner is a useless parent but there's yet another woman willing to have multiple children with them then realize how shit they are

I don’t think your husband’s likely to step up and parent his children appropriately. If you stay with him the only solution would be to supervise play at all time so they are never alone with the small children, and as soon as they get rowdy to stop and enforce sitting down and playing games/with toys. Personally I don’t think this is sustainable.

To answer, no it’s not acceptable. My 5yo even knows when she plays with her younger cousins she needs to be very gentle/not really ‘play’ with them as she plays with kids her age.

These kids have gone from two boys/two parents to four [?] parental figures and three, soon to be four, siblings in how long? With ineffective parenting all around.

Poor little buggers. They're trying to be part of the family but it really does look as if they've been repeatedly replaced and that no one wants to actually parent them.

Not your fault OP but blimey, they will be going through another huge upheaval soon.

In your discussion with your DP you might want to highlight the fact that because he is so rubbish at supervising the children all together, if you spit up he will NOT be seeing your DC at the same time as he sees his other DC, as he is incapable of protecting them. This will not leave him any free time as he will be alternating weekends and days with different sets of children.

@Porridgealert

Obviously you have to do what you think is best for your children. But won't your partner end up getting shared custody and then your children will be alone with their step-brothers without even you there. Do you think your partner will step up then? I don't think you'd be able to dictate that he keeps all his children apart.

Will he even want them all at the same time? It’s a decent number of children for a capable parent, it’s a lot for a crappy one like this guy.

They are old enough to know to be careful with toddlers and babies and I agree with pp that they’re hurting them on purpose.

It’s a tricky situation but your job is to protect your DC, not the feelings of your DH, his ex or the need of your DSC to act out their apparent jealousy on their younger and vulnerable siblings. Sorry if this sounds harsh. Your DH needs to fully support you in this.

You need specialist family counselling because as a pp pointed out leaving might not solve this safeguarding issue during contact time. At 9 and 11 they should be able to perceive danger and certainly to follow simple rules. (Not dropping your baby sibling on their head isn't you disciplining them btw, it's ensuring safe contact.)

From the step kids perspective going through a family breakdown and then getting three (soon to be four) new siblings must be a pretty difficult experience. The little ones take so very much attention. If you think about time and connection bring a scarce resource then you can see why there would be sibling contact.

OP, the more you post about your DP the more useless and Disney he sounds.

I completely agree with comments from others saying this does not sound like normal behaviour for these ages towards much younger children. I’ve never seen anything like this with mine or their siblings and friends. You’re 100% right to prioritise your little ones. Wishing you luck.

@EKGEMS - that's an unnecessarily harsh comment & totally uncalled for as op explained the dynamics between her and dp & the reasons she didn't leave before now upthread.

@Tattler2 Your post is spot on.

She’s allowed to want to leave, she’s allowed to actually leave. She’s been clear she’s decided she’s had enough and is going to tell him so today. What happens around contact once he’s moved out is a problem for another day. She needs to tell everyone she can that her husband refuses to keep two small children safe and that one has already needed hospital treatment for a head injury.

Trying to suggest these children are safer in the house with two much larger uncontrolled unparented children than away from them is incredibly irresponsible.

OP, I hope you got some rest. Use today to talk to your midwife, your HV, to put everything you need in place to get him out and do it. It’s taken a long time to get to this place and now is the time to face what you need to do and get him and his kids out of your home.

Once you speak to a professional about the hurting though, there will be no going back, you'll need to have your plan in place to leave

You might like to think this is the case, but I know from experience it isn’t. I am in a similar situation and confided in my health visitor who told me how difficult it must be as the Mother of my DSC will need to the break she gets from when DSC come to our house. So basically, my toddler has to take one for the team.

@AnneLovesGilbert - spot on post & excellent advice.
@MyDDtheStrawberryThief - I too hope you got some rest. There is no way you or your dc are better off living with these dc & your dp's attitude. As said above your dps access to your dc is a 'fight' for another day.

I don't think these are accidents.
I think they are hurting your children on purpose.
They are still young children themselves and I think it's likely there is resentment there.
Ending the relationship is a good idea, as is making sure that he has your children at different times to your stepchildren.

Totally agree @AnneLovesGilbert

You have a massive DH problem. I wouldn't stay as his handling of this would make me lose love and respect for him, but if you do, I would just start disciplining them and to hell with their mum. If you're thinking of leaving anyway, what do you have to lose by pissing her off? If your DH raises it with you tell him he's left you no choice, and if he doesn't want you dishing out appropriate punishments to stop this from happening then he should be doing it himself.