How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

He's a bully OP who doesn't respect your feelings / needs as being equal to his.

• he isn't doing what you agreed with regard to divorce or debt
• he throws a tantrum or huffs when you try to discuss matters with him
• he dismisses your views on being a step-parent whilst on the other hand expecting you to support his children with a home EOW and no doubt with getting involved in their lives

AND he's using you financially so he can bury his head in the sand about debts whilst acting the good guy and overpaying maintenance. It's great to overpay maintenance - I wish more dads would - but not if there is debt and bills to pay first.

You need a full and frank with him - tell him to hear you out, no interruptions. Either it changes now or it's time for him to move out.

You've got a lot of assets that you are generously sharing and need to protect those but above all you need to be happy and right now you arent

Of course he's loving and supportive! He's taking ADVANTAGE! So in order to try and balance the scales he's nice as pie.

There's that saying: in order to find out what someone's really like, say no to them.

I suspect you know the shit will hit the fan. Sadly I think you do have to let it. He has not made any commitment to you. You have taken on all the risk, you're housing a married man and his kids and heavily subsidising him. Ask yourself why he's so happy to take all this from you? And yet he wants more?!?!?! What you give IS NOT ENOUGH?! Fuck that.

WHERE IS YOUR ANGER?

OP - he should not have put you in this position. YOu dont owe your happiness to his family - his children - to him. You have to put yourself first - there is no way that a young woman should have the burden of all of his families happiness.

Could you afford counselling? For you not as a couple. It would be a space to talk this through.

The fact is - if he loves you - really and truly and if he is a good man - he will be happy for you to step back. If you are meant 'to be ' - he would go along with you setting boundaries.

State in an email if you need to - you are not ready to be a step mum and you want an independent life back - you love him but are unhappy with how things are. If he is a good person - he will not push back at you

It's worryign that you call yourself 'over sensitive' and say he pushes back - this means he is not listening and is bullying you. sorry to say it but he does not sound like a good man.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce

WTF is this? Run for the hills.

Where do you see yourself in five years' time OP? Work backwards from that.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It's hard to talk to him about the things I have an issue with. I am oversensitive and I do overreact so I don't trust myself with these issues. He is very sure of himself and pushes back strongly when I try to raise an issue, and he can be very defensive on certain topics - his parenting and his financial situation in particular

This is beginning to sound like abuse, or deliberate cocklodging at the very least - this "supportive, generous, lovely man" is slowly manoeuvering you into a position where you don't trust your own instincts and worry about how to phrase things, which is mindbending in itself

As PPs have said, part of his "loving" nature will be because of the cushy number he wants to keep; query things seriously and you'll soon see another side, probably garnished with a list of all your faults "which nobody else would put up with"

I have a similar impression.

The only irrational thing I can see would be to try and continue this relationship.

The children will spend every other weekend somewhere different to the last few months. (How many weekends has it been? 6 or 7?) They are not remotely going to be traumatised by that.

You're paying for his kids in both houses! First by subsidising the CM and then by paying for them in your house! How does he justify the CM overpayment and then only covering 2/3 of the groceries in your own household??

@grapewine

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce

WTF is this? Run for the hills.

Maybe OP is just a stop gap until his ex splits with her current partner and they get back together?

Maybe a stretch but you never know...

I get it feels shit, but in the long run, it's going to be kinder to rip this plaster off now and get the pain over with quickly before everything becomes even more rooted. Right now, you're all THAT settled, it's only been 3 months. The longer you leave it, the harder it's going to get.

And I think you want out. At 26 it's a huge amount to take on. You have a life to lead that doesn't need to come with all that (no offence) baggage.

Are you sure he hasn't hatched an elaborate plan with his "ex" to get money from you to pay off a debt then as soon as it's done he'll go back to her?

Of course he adores you, he knows a good thing when he sees it!

Don't get saddled with the huge lump of baggage, the children, the debt and the endless parenting that will end up being your life with no future or life. It is a life sentence not a relationship!!

End it now, travel and have fun, enjoy being young and eventually you will find someone young and debt free that can give you the kind of life you truly deserve.

You will end up being the maid/childminder and cash cow if you are now already.

*not

Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not facts. Feelings are not facts.

You obviously have strong feelings for your DP but don't let that override a) your doubts and b) the facts.

The facts are you have been very generous to this man and he is taking full advantage of that. I cannot see how this arrangement positively benefits you beyond having a DP under the same roof. (Does it feel as fun as you thought it would pre-covid?/is it worth it?)

The facts are that you owe nothing to his children - that’s all on him.

The facts are you are obviously smart, focussed, ambitious and organised. He sounds the complete opposite in most respects. You don’t sound very compatible for the long term. Trust me, that really matters later on.

You need to get firm with yourself. Wrote down what boundaries you want to set and practise saying this out loud. Feels a bit silly but it works. Don’t be afraid to change and be more direct and upfront. He is walking all over you and getting defensive about his money issues because he knows he can. You can change and become more assertive to get your needs met. Nothing wrong with that and if he doesn’t accept it/like it/challenges it then you really need to get shot of him.

He's been quite clever and you've been too trusting, I think. He may try to use the children as a human shield, but you need to be firm: you owe him and his DC nothing. Nothing.

You asked him to move in; you can ask him to move out again. The deal was he worked on his divorce and his debt. That is so vague that even when you say he hasn't, he can protest he has. He isn't even putting a roof over his children's heads: you are!

You must realise by giving him free board YOU are effectively paying his debt; debt that you didn't incur for things you didn't benefit from.

Meanwhile, he isn't free to marry you, he isn't taking steps to get free and he has set completely vague conditions for his divorce that can easily be stretched into 'wait and see' for at least a decade.

This is no way for a smart young woman who never even wanted children to be spending her twenties.

Get him out. He won't like it, but it is best done soon.

I get what you are saying but you are not happy, you have also said that quite clearly.

People do fall in love more than once you know. You'll become more and more fed up with the arrangement.

Never mind about your families loving your relationship, if you split up I bet yours would say, "I don't blame you, didn't think it would last".

Your boyfriend's children would be fine. The only obligation you have to them is to be nice, which you are.

He is very sure of himself and pushes back strongly when I try to raise an issue

Well, he would do that, wouldn't he? He has a very great deal to lose.

What would you do in my situation.

I would absolutely give him a few days snd say he has to have moved himself and his kids out by then. Find a locksmith and pay them to change all the locks. Noon on Friday seems like a good time to pick.

Observe just how kind and supportive he is in these new circumstances, when you are not funding his lifestyle.

Paying off debts before getting divorced is absolute madness. He cannot be telling the truth here

In a few years from now, when you look back at this time, I very dearly hope that you have got them out and that you will be wondering what on earth made you play along with him for doing long. I hope that you will not still be with him, providing for him and his children.

Meanwhile, do not under any circumstances sleep with him.

What would you say to a friend, a sister or a daughter in your situation ?

@hilfehilfehilfe I really hope you’re reading these replies. I don’t think I’ve ever read a thread on this board where the replies were this unanimous.

Whenever I feel myself getting overly emotional in my decision making (rather than being rational) I try to imagine my daughter/best friend/ sister coming to me and asking advice on the topic…

If it wasn’t you, what would you advise someone you care amount to do in this predicament? What would you objectively think of this situation if you were on the outside looking in instead?

This is such a messed up situation. You definitely need to take a step back because it's all too much. I'm guessing he actually wouldn't be able to afford a place of his own with enough room for the kids which is just ridiculous. If he can afford a place of his own (what was he doing before you moved in together) then that's what needs to happen.

Somehow, you now have four dependents. One adult and three children. For someone who is 26 and isn't planning on have her own children, this is a crazy situation to be in. He will suck the life (and money) out of you. You are subsidising his and his children's lifestyle.

You need to get your big girl pants on. Don't call yourself over-sensitive...do you really think that or has he told you that.

Issues to address with him immediately:

• Finances. If you are subsidising him like this then you need to know more about his financial situation. You can't trust him - he is in a mess already because he is crap with money. He will continue to be unless this is addressed and you can't trust him until you have full transparency on his finances. This isn't controlling. It's sensible and you must protect your own interests.

• Divorce. Doesn't necessarily matter if you don't plan on getting married for now but he does need to do this for emotional and financial closure from his wife. Tell him you do not believe his intentions with you until this is closed off. Also, he is at risk of inheriting 50% any debts now and in the future of his wife. It's pure stupidity to let this continue and for them to be bound in this way.

• Housing. If 1 & 2 aren't sorted then you need him out. This might be scary but if you are meant to be together without him draining you dry then he will do those things and you won't feel as worried. You can't live together like this and bury your feelings. You're headed for trouble the way you are going and you will regret it for the rest of your life if you don't address it now, once and for all.

Come on, you can do this. It will be the best thing you have ever done for you. Although honestly, you might think you love him but I'm sure there would be someone better out there for you. Three kids is a lot and it's easier when they're younger...this will just get harder as they get older and you will get hurt time and time again.

Just a thought: how do you know he's overpaying child maintenance and not just squirrelling money away in hidden savings?

How do you know he has £15k debt to clear?

If he has just told you these things and you've accepted them, he could be a con artist living at your expense.

How will he even know when his wife will want a divorce, of ever? What if she never does?

You're housing and supporting a married man and his children while he directs almost all his earnings - greater than yours - out of the household and away to who knows where?

And when you try to discuss it, he shuts you down.

Open your eyes, OP. You seem to be being taken for a mug.

In your situation and given your updates I would take a deep breathe, pull up your big girl pants and tell him this is not working for you and tell him he has to find somewhere else to live, give him a set notice period so he has time to find new accommodation.

This relation is not good for you, you should not be expected to keep a man in his thirties and his children at your age. He needs to sort his own kids, his debt and his divorce himself, he is an adult.

I don't care whether your parents et al like him and like you both together, they are not living your reality and they are not funding him and his 3 kids. If you break up everyone will be fine, they will all adapt and get used to the new normal. You are just ending a relationship, people do it all the time, no-one died and everyone will cope.

Firstly I'd agree with PP you need to get him out. He and his kids are freeloading on you - that is what he loves - sadly not you as a person. You don't want kids - this is not the life you want - no wonder you are not happy!

Now if you are determined to keep this going how about looking at the figures:

Minimum wage over a 40 hour week is £18,500 a year - so I assume he is earning at least that. Assuming he pays no additional pension that means he is bringing home at least £1350 a month.

CMS says he should pay £250 a month for his kids on £18,500 a year– assuming he has them 1-2 nights a week.
You say he pays 2/3rd food bill – lets say a food bill of £100 a week – so he pays £280 a month in food I bet he doesn’t…
£1350 - £250 - £280 leaves him with £820 a month. So if he is not able to save then he should be over £3000 less in debt (and on track to be debt free in 18 months) – I bet he’s not…
So where has that £3000+ gone? If it is anywhere other than his debt or in savings for your joint future then you have effectively gifted him £820+ each month to spend on his kids/ex wife/himself in addition to subsidising his and his children’s living expenses.

He is not prepared to divorce the wife – as he doesn’t see that as important – infact I bet if she were to take him back he would go running. He doesn’t care enough about you to want to come to you ‘free’ – and frankly I wouldn’t marry him as you will be taking on all this crap legally too!

You don’t owe him anything. You don’t owe his kids anything. You DO owe YOURSELF happiness. Tell him to leave – and come back to you when he is free to do so. Free of debt, free of the wife… bet he doesn’t.

Bloody hell OP. You've got yourself a Grade A cocklodger

I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out

Please do yourself a big favour, & drop the resentment.
Replace it with a giant sense of relief that you have financial independence.

but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'

Come on now.
It's ok to have YOUR life totally uprooted, but you feel guilty for not wanting to be the breadwinner for your cocklodging, manipulative, entitled boyfriend?

If he had never met you, he would have housed his children somehow.
That's up to him to work out - because he's an adult, with his own agency, & IS THE PARENT.

This worries me -
I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.
How DARE he?
Like providing a roof over his & their heads isn't enough - you also need to be told that your "attitude" isn't good enough?

This man has done a real number on you OP.
He has you paying for everything, yet still feeling on the back foot, that you are not 'providing' enough. He's deliberately manipulating your feelings - presumably to he can retain the upper hand in what is a seriously unbalanced relationship.

You do not owe this man a living.
You do not owe his children anything other than cordial friendship.
He will never sort out their housing needs while he can guilt-trip you into paying for it.

It's time for you to start being brutally honest with yourself about this relationship, what's in it for you, & how very badly you are being used & controlled here. Your b/f should be ashamed of himself. It's his job to fund his children - & it's his job to make them feel settled & very happy. The fact that you are feeling so much guilt over this shows how much you have been manipulated.

If your b/f genuinely cared about you (or his kids, come to that), he would be taking better steps to sorting out his debt. You know that he isn't - he's stalling on it, because you are there to take up the slack, so why should be bother? He gets to live off your back, whining that you are somehow not giving enough (resenting your 'attitude' ffs), all for the price of 2/3 of the food bill.
Whoop de doo, dad of the year huh?

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself.

Dear OP - it is NOT our house.
It is your house.

Don't forget that next time your cocklodger tells you you somehow aren't pulling enough weight in the relationship, or otherwise devalues you.

You say you love him & I’m sure you do but he doesn’t even love you enough to divorce his wife.

Your resentment is desperately trying to tell you how unhappy and unfair the situation is. What do you think he would do if you were the one with the kids, the husband and the debt, and he were the one paying for everything? Would he have a problem telling you to move out?