How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

I think his view is that we are in it for the long haul, we're the real deal so perhaps now I'm carrying us but in the future when it's his turn he'll pick me up and support me
Women who think one day it will be my turn to be the one cared for, one day he will take his turn with this load, I just have to do it all for now to show my love… mostly end up sadder older and poorer when they realise their turn is never coming, that they’ve been had.

OP, how do you reconcile the idea that he sees the relationship as 'the real deal' and 'in it for the long haul' ...while not divorcing his wife?

If he was serious about you he would not contemplate remaining married to someone else.

I agree about placing no weight on the idea that your 'turn' for support will come.

Generally the dynamics tend to go on as they started. Here the dynamic is that you support him- and there is an emotional price to pay if you so much as question it.

If he was taking from you at this time with the intention of reciprocity over the time of a long term relationship then HE would welcome an opportunity to communicate that. He would be bringing up money and talking about how he appreciates what you're doing. Not shutting you off when you want to raise it

It's hard to change the status quo.

This is why so many women end up completely shafted in their relationships when their maternity leave ends.

Relationships don't get easier with time, they get harder. If you are unhappy now, you need to really think about what will make you happy.

How long was he split from his wife before you got together? Was it months or years?

I’ve namechanged for this for obvious reasons.

@hilfehilfehilfe I could have written your OP with very few changes. I was warned. I didn’t listen. I’ve been here thirty years. Obviously it’s not all been bad, there have been good times along the way. I have my own children and am close to my step children and grandchildren. ….but the outgoing, adventurous twenty something girl I was then was lost for good. I feel increasingly sad at where these years have gone. I don’t regret it all but I do have huge regrets. The more embroiled your lives become, the more difficult it will get to put an end to it.

My eldest child is the same age as you and if this were them I would strongly encourage them to walk away. I hope your lovely Mum can support you in your decision.

Best wishes. Let us know.

OP, do you really want to be with an adult who could not resolve his living arrangements and provide for his children without your intervention? But for his age, he hardly seems to meet any adult benchmarks. Tbh, you could find a high school senior better prepared to meet his adult obligations..

You did not find a partner; you acquired a dependent. If you dating pool is not very shallow, it is difficult to see how you could not do better.

He's not a big bad abuser. For various reasons, he has had a really hard time over the last 5/6 years. I think he thinks in moving in and being with me he has finally arrived at happiness after struggling for a long time. I don't think he realises it comes at my expense. I think his view is that we are in it for the long haul, we're the real deal so perhaps now I'm carrying us but in the future when it's his turn he'll pick me up and support me.
@hilfehilfehilfe this is what I call the old 'Woe Is Me' act.
My exh did a great line in this. His life was always soooo hard & he was always having a hard time & I always felt sorry/responsible for him. This is not adult behaviour it's CODEPENDENCY pure & simple.
I let my exh:

1. stop me/us from trying a life out in New Zealand.
2. have me agree to giving up a great job to facilitate a move to facilitate his.
3. have me give up a career to facilitate his job which had very unsociable hours. My only saving grace was I insisted on working part time at anything to maintain some independence. All this was based on him telling me my time would come; that once he was established & better paid he'd sort things so as I could retrain & establish my career. What actually happened was when he did become more established & well paid he hightailed off with another woman leaving me with majority care of three dc & no career. I had to build myself up from the bottom. by. myself. My exh also didn't see that his actions came at my expense - as he swanned off on exotic holidays with his partner! Please do not believe what this man is saying to you - the old adage that actions speak louder than words really is true & it does not seem like this man is putting in place ANY plan to make your life a bit easier. Listen to those of us who have been around the block & get rid of him.

I think his view is that we are in it for the long haul, we're the real deal so perhaps now I'm carrying us but in the future when it's his turn he'll pick me up and support me

Don't make any assumptions about his thoughts. The biggest mistake we make is to think the other person has the same values and attitudes. Don't assume, look at his actions. You sound empathic but I think you need a dose of reality.

Btw, he must have felt his wife was the " real deal" as he married her and had children.

You felt motivated enough to provide decent accommodation for his children...why didn't he feel similar?

This thread seems fairly unanimous, OP.

Yep, agree with Fireflygal about his marriage probably being the real deal to him. Not just in the past; it still seems to be. He is still married, with not even a consideration of a divorce.

He's not a big bad abuser
But he is OP, he is. Just because he's not shouting and roaring and beating you doesn't mean he's ot an abuser. He is. I'm sorry to be harsh. Listen to the collective thousands of years experience on this thread. You sound so lovely and of course you are - to echo other posters he saw you coming. I'm glad you have your mum to chat to. Don't leave any details out.

You're 26. You should be having the carefree time of your life. Lose him. As a PP said, he's a parasite.

@Seniorandjunior

He's not a big bad abuser But he is OP, he is. Just because he's not shouting and roaring and beating you doesn't mean he's ot an abuser. He is. I'm sorry to be harsh. Listen to the collective thousands of years experience on this thread. You sound so lovely and of course you are - to echo other posters he saw you coming. I'm glad you have your mum to chat to. Don't leave any details out.

You're 26. You should be having the carefree time of your life. Lose him. As a PP said, he's a parasite.

This is so true. At 26 you could be focusing on your career, enjoying some carefree holidays with your mates, and doing all the stuff that’s much tricker to do when you’ve got kids. (There is so much on my bucket list I wished I’d done before I settled down!) This is the part of your life when you get the chance to focus on your wants and needs.

Don’t waste this precious time on some bloke and his problems. Don’t spend your time second guessing him and setting goals. Fuck it. Go and find the real love of your life.

Just to add to those picking up on the point "He's not a big bad abuser".

Too many of us equate abuse with being hit. That is physical abuse - one type of abuse. It's not the only type of abuse. It's just it's the one that get's the most attention in the press. I get it - it's easier to spot. But the other forms of abuse are still abusive. Psychological, financial, emotional, sexual - all are forms of abuse. As is coercive control. Have a ponder @hilfehilfehilfe. He's been manipulative and he's living off you. He's made sure you know of his resentment of your 'attitude' to being a stepmum; and feeds you a line on debt and how hard it's been for him, which keeps you shelling out financially. Not good, and - abusive. Subtler than a punch to the face, but still - abusive.

Abusers don't go in all guns blazing - have you heard of the boiling frog analogy? Put a frog in boiling water and it will jump straight out to save itself. Put it in tepid water and heat it slowly and it stays there. Until - well, it's boiled. The water is still quite tepid, but your feeling "like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change" is your gut reaction to the increasing temperature. It is wrong for you - at this stage in your life, with this cocklodger of a man, with these responsibilities he's persuaded you are yours. It's time to get out of the water.

OP, your boyfriend has made it clear what he wants from you:

1. financial support
2. you to look after his children
3. you to accept that actual commitment is currently not possible

You aren’t happy with this, clearly. You may not have fully acknowledged it in words but you are struggling.

You don’t actually have to put up with it anymore - if you end if he can go and his demands/wants do g matter anymore

I am so uncomfortable with this situation I can’t even wait to read the full thread before posting...you need to get out of this situation. He’s legally married to someone else and you are letting him mix things up when you need to keep your finances and home separate or you will come out very badly.

There are lots of “lovely supportive men” out there who just don’t know what to do and avoid stuff and want someone else to handle things. If you set this precedent it becomes soooooooo hard to change later. Change it NOW. Ultimatum: divorce initiated by a certain (soon) deadline or out. And that should just be step #1 of several getting things back to a more equal and respectful footing and not being taken advantage of...if it’s fixable.

Beware of men who show a double standard...they so badly don’t want to hurt someone else, but expect you to “understand” and accept terrible treatment to save those precious others’ feelings. RUN! People like this, they will never come around to treat you as if you were that important. Your value to them is in your willingness to accept the unfairness.

@hilfehilfehilfe - how are you doing now - were you able to discuss your feelings with your DM? How did it go?

Hi everyone

This weekend with my mum, I talked some things through with her and wrote everything down in a pros and cons list. From the list I realised that it all boiled down to him not really having any respect from what I think or feel. I came up with some points I wanted to raise with him when I got home:

I feel like he doesn't respect me and here are some examples:

1. He always says I'm "overthinking it" as a means to shut down my opinion and points I try to make. He isn't to say that to me ever again.

2. The divorce. He's happy to wait out in this situation as it is easy and free - his wife is happy, he's happy, the kids are settled and there's no extra expense. I mention that I'm unhappy about it every now and again but really that's it, and really it's tiresome of me to keep bringing it up to be honest. If he were to get divorced, it would (we assume) really upset his wife, be expensive and messy and ugly. Why would he do that just to get rid of a bit of paper?

But there is a cost to the first option - I can't risk accepting any financial help from him with the house in case it involves the house in the divorce, so I have to pay for the house and lifestyle by myself so there is a financial cost to me. In addition to this, I feel sad and ashamed and hurt that he won't get divorced and do the right thing by me. This is the cost of the easy option.

3. Boundaries: I had two examples, one of which were the terms I tried to set when we moved in together (pay off the debt faster and find out how divorce works).

I wanted him to do three things:

1. Contact a debt advice charity to find the cheapest, fastest way to deal with the debt.
2. Research exactly what his wife would be entitled to and/or likely to receive in the event of a divorce.
3. Maintain some small (but extremely important to me) boundaries while I am away on a work trip.

I felt like I had a plan. I felt better.

I spoke to him today after work. Until about an hour ago. I said everything I said above. I feel very confused and very sad. He said a lot of things that I can't quite recall - but I have no idea how to feel right now. He reluctantly agreed to all four of my "demands". Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

• We are in exactly the same position with the divorce. Initially when we first got together when I was 23, I said I wanted to be engaged by the time I turned 30 and to get engaged he needed to be debt free and divorced. We spoke about the divorce a few weeks ago, and seeing that I was not happy about it and he moved the deadline have started divorce proceedings to the end of 2022. I said tonight let's get rid of the deadline, I don't want to strongarm or bully him into anything. No deadline. And definitely don't get divorced now because he would only be doing it for me and if it got ugly it would become my fault. "If it were up to me, I'd never get divorced". I couldn't effectively rebuff the 'it's just a piece of paper' argument. So that situation hasn't changed. I told him I couldn't understand how he thought that was fair or reasonable to ask that of me, to put my life on hold until a woman I've never get gets a boyfriend she may or may not want and wouldn't tell him about until it was serious enough to affect the kids. He asks, how does it put my life on hold? And I didn't have a strong enough answer.

• He said the debt is none of my business and he felt like I was trying to control him and his life by making him pay it off faster/contact a debt advice charity. He says he is constantly checking the rates of new loans he is being offered and checking his improving credit rating. What difference does it make to me if he pays the debt back more slowly? I made the argument that it would set our life plans back e.g. if we wanted to buy a house together. He pushed back very hard on calling a debt advice charity stating "it's not for people like me" and "they'd laugh at me down the phone if I contacted them for help". He says the debt is only ~£11k, not the £15k I thought.

• He says he pays for food shopping/other stuff around the house to make up for the fact that he can't directly give me cash. He tried to use last weekends shop as an example - but I wasn't even there, it was just him and the kids last weekend! He does do and buy things around the house to be fair to him. He says this balances our contributions and therefore him being married and not being able to contribute financially is irrelevant.

Other things were said too, so if more information would be useful please ask and it will jog my memory. I didn't even mention the kids. At all. In saying how unhappy with the current situation I was, he said that I needed to decide whether I wanted to be with him or not. Which is true. But I don't know. He was (if a belligerent) very reasonable and I didn't feel like my arguments were strong enough. Now I don't know what to do.

Seriously… get rid. You can better.

OP, just you being unhappy should be enough! You don't need a watertight legal answer! You wanting him to draw a line under his marriage is self explanatory.

He's shut you down again. Again. It's not nice. Or right.

You already know this

He lives in your house and doesn’t pay rent. His debt absolutely is your business.
I’m sorry it wasn’t a useful chat.

You deserve more than this OP. You're 26. I was 24 when I got together with my now ex. I'm 44 now and getting divorced. Please don't waste your life on this man.

His children are not your responsibility.

It’s not just a piece of paper. If he rally believes this, you have incompatible values and that alone is reason to kick him out, you don’t need to justify any further. Let him call you a prude or old fashioned or whatever he will certainly say to shame you for having your own thoughts. Then get him to leave.

Also if its just a piece or paper it won’t hurt
him or his wife to not have it. Right?!

I think you need to ask him and his kids to move out, as only then will you see that your life will become easier (& cheaper) without them there.

If you want to still date him you can, but he's not making any financial or legal commitments to you (he's not even divorcing his wife FFS) so he can't expect them from you either.

If he says it's a case of you live together or there's no relationship then that tells you it's your house and easy lifestyle that he's after not just YOU.

Take it back to basics and see if you enjoy just being boyfriend and girlfriend for a bit, without the complications of step children and living together.