How much do I owe his kids?

[hilfehilfehilfe]

I am 26. My partner is 32. He earns more than I do but not loads. We have been together since summer 2019. Was not the OW. He has 3 kids from his marriage and they are 5, 7 and 8. I met them Dec 20. I love him a lot but I am starting to feel trapped and unhappy and worried that this is just how my life is going to be forever now. DP is great, thoughtful, supportive and absolutely adores me.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce. They never communicate so they would have to be very serious for DP to even have heard of his existence. He has done very little research about divorce and is overall just concerned about not being able to afford it. I am unhappy and ashamed of this and have told him so.

He has a large amount of debt (~£15k) that he is paying off in the agreed installments. He has done no research or work to look into paying this off faster.

He doesn't parent as I would want to. I do not want children so this is not as big an issue as it might be. I think he wants a blended family with me taking on more of a step mum role. I feel they have an amazing mum already and him, they do not need a third parent and I am just a nice, safe adult they know well. He resents my attitude on this.

I own and pay for our house entirely by myself. His contribution is he buys 2/3s(ish) of our groceries as he is meant to be clearing his debt. He is currently in a good financial position (i.e. not going into his overdraft each month and living within his paycheque but not able to save etc.). We moved in together into this house May 21. I resent that I bought this house and pay for it alone in order to protect myself in the event of the relationship not working out - but now it isn't really working for me I don't feel like I can ask him to move out as it would completely uproot his life and the childrens'.

I feel like I went from an individual person to a homeowner, breadwinner, provider and stepmum in the space of a few months. I don't think I want to break up but I do want to go back to being just an individual person in with my own space. I just don't know what I owe his children - their friends are on this street, their bedrooms are here. They love me, they love our life here and they are settled and very happy. I feel horribly guilty to even have wobbles about my relationship with their dad. I feel horrible about turfing DP out too and think it would damage our relationship perhaps fatally but I just feel like I'm suffocating and I need the situation to change. How do I do the right thing by the kids - can I say it's just him that moves out, and he can still have them here during his contact time?

Please help. What's fair of me to do. I don't want to hurt anyone but I can't remember the last time I was happy.

He is very sure of himself and pushes back strongly when I try to raise an issue, and he can be very defensive on certain topics -

I bet you are not 'over sensitive'. How dare he 'push back' when you raise an issue? He should be so consumed with gratitude for what you have done that he bends over backwards to make sure you are happy. He is bullying and manipulating you.

He could have used the opportunity to move into your house with no costs to address his debt, his divorce. Instead he has just used it to enjoy the fact that you now take on household chores and childcare - and in his opinion, not enough of the childcare - FFS.

Who does he think he is?

Look: The kids have been there for3 months. EOW for much of that time. People go on holiday for less time.

It's lovely that you care about them. But you say you don't want kids...you don't want the sacrifice and compromise that goes with the unconditional love of parenthood - the love they have from their parents - so you don't have to take it on.

If he doesn't listen to you now, and take your serious issues seriously, he never will. And it will get even harder to disentangle.

I don't know what I expected from the thread but I didn't expect it to be so unanimous

Well to be fair, it is rare for the thread to be so unanimous. So I would see that as a pretty concrete sign that most people believe you are being taken advantage of, you are setting yourself up for a life of drudgery and debt, and you are 26!!

I would be pretty devastated if my dd was in your position.

I am sure he does idolise you, you are young and have everything going for you. All of his christmases have come at once! But you have the very raw end of a deal. I hope you don't waste too many precious years finding this out for yourself.....

OP if the person really does love and adore you then that will not be dependent on you supporting him so early in a relationship. If he loves you he will respect you enough to take the time to get himself in order so that you can have a truly equal relationship. From what you've written I don't see him accepting any of that. Draw your own conclusions.

Hi @hilfehilfehilfe 's mum

well done helping create such a kind, caring and sucessful daughter. Now please help her escape this deadweight and fulfill her potential for a happy life of her choosing.

And what if his wife never agrees to a divorce, as is her right after all given he is letting her decide his future - and by extension your future. All of this will be for nothing anyway. A total waste of time.

It was company in the lockdown, but the living arrangements are not working now, and are causing you stress and exhaustion. He can move back, you can have your house back and you can reassess the relationship from there.

You are also being forced to live with a married man, that can't feel very good. If he was serious about you he would be divorced by now. Please op wake up.

@sessell

OP if the person really does love and adore you then that will not be dependent on you supporting him so early in a relationship. If he loves you he will respect you enough to take the time to get himself in order so that you can have a truly equal relationship. From what you've written I don't see him accepting any of that. Draw your own conclusions.

I agree with this. He shouldn’t push back on anything you have to say by the way, not if you are equals. You mention he is ‘the one’ - I don’t think he is really, you are unhappy after just 3 months living together. You deserve more.

@SpacePotato

Well hasn't he got it cushy. Conveniently found a woman able to pay for everything and expects her to co parent his children so he can outsource that responsibility too.

Fuck that. You're 26. You're not happy and he is why. Tell him he needs to move out.

This x1000 - run for the hills OP. You'll find someone else who adores you and doesn't use you to prop up his financial situation.

Many of us have been through the same thing. Bf has moved in, and it just doesn't work for whatever reason. Better to know now and put an end to it, than to continue and be so unhappy and miserable.

He won't get divorced, he overpays his child maintenance, he's living with you for free...sounds to me like he's been sent off by his wife to clear his debt and then get back together and move back in with her once the debt is gone.

@hilfehilfehilfe I too have never seen a thread on here with pretty much 100% of us in total agreement.

I think you’ve had some great advice (writing down a script/ notes, for example). Confide in your mum and confide in some trusted people who can support you in this conversation. I sense you will find it hard and he will push every button to stop you from seeing this through.

Whatever happens, get him out.

Listen if he loves you, I’ll say this again. It will not be the end. He will use this time to give himself a swift kick up the arse, start his divorce/ address his financials and get himself to a better position. And fundamentally take a good hard look at his own behaviour and his inate entitlement. I would never allow someone to take this on on my behalf and if for any reason I needed it and they did, I would be so beyond grateful! I would have any conversation they needed to have.

He is not a victim of life who has made poor choices, he knows exactly what he is doing.

Totally bizarre that he is so indulgent to his (not ex) wife - over pays all the CM, won’t divorce her until she has a boyfriend and wants to get divorced.

But she doesn’t talk to him?

None of this adds up.

I suspect that he did something v bad or has many dark secrets lurking (other than being an emotionally and financially coercive cocklodger who targeted / love-bombed and future faked a solvent 24 year old) - why would his wife not speak to him?

Is he an addict (money issues) or a serial cheat?

Currently he has a false persona with your friends and family - he uses charm to manipulate - but the real him is v dark.

You met him at 24 - he was a 30 year old father of 3 children - he is sweet talking and manipulating and exploiting you.

Show your Mum this thread end to end. Email her the link so she can read and digest ahead of your meeting up.

He won't get divorced until his wife is settled with a new boyfriend and also wants to divorce.

I've read all your posts OP, none of the rest (yet), however the above stood out for me.

As far as I can see:

• you are 26 and don't want your own DC
• you are paying for a house and bills for your DP AND his 3 DC
• your DP is actually MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE
• you are waiting for that SOMEONE ELSE to decide when he will divorce
• you are deeply unhappy

I'd have left for the last point alone, however all the rest seal the deal. You need to ask him to move back to the work accommodation, unless you are prepared to be miserable for a long long time. You owe him and his DC nothing.

Have a chat with him and be honest and tell him you feel suffocated and like you're paying for everything and don't want to be as involved a step mum as he wants you to be then see what he says.

I can tell you what he will say.
He will convince OP that she has a bad attitude, that she owes him because he is The One, & that she isn't doing enough emotional labour for his kids. He will explain that she is over-sensitive, & badly in the wrong. When she's feeling sufficiently cowed & guilty, he will dangle the carrot of "when the debt is paid off" or "when my wife gets a boyfriend" - but he won't do anything about it.

If OP sees through his bullshit this time & pushes back because his words are meaningless & his actions tell her everything she needs to know, he will become nasty. He will browbeat her until she apologises for not loving him enough, or being the right kind of stepmum, for having her own feelings & wishes.

Keep having those conversations and encouraging him to find somewhere else.

This is not a man who responds to 'encouragement'.
He's already reneged on his agreement to pay down his debts & divorce his wife, as part of the moving in together agreement.
he believes he has Op right where he wants her - paying for his life while all he has to do is soft-soap but never actually deliver on his word.

When OP is ready to accept that she is going to be happier & freer without this man, she's going to have to do a lot more than "encourage" him to move out. He won't take well to having his comfy cocklodging disrupted.

OP - may I also offer you a personal & sincere apology for the, er - robust tone of my posts on your thread? I promise this comes from concern, not a desire to be mean to you. I have lived through a similar situation, & my friends were appalled & horrified for me. It took me FAR too many years to realise what a manipulative shit I had married.
The process of waking up to the difference between his pretty words (never delivered on) & his ugly actions was hurtful & personally diminishing. It is really, really hard to accept that the person you have poured so much love & concern into is actually just using you, & I am so glad that you are going to have time with your mum this weekend.

What you have with this man is a lot of FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt.
Used by narcissists & manipulators the world over to keep their partners/relatives in line. Please have a look at the link, & reflect on how much emphasis you have given on this thread to OTHER PEOPLE's feelings & other people's needs. This is YOUR thread, for you. Those kids, nice as they are, fond of them as you may be, are not going to be anywhere near as upset as you imagine they might be about their dad moving out & giving them access at a new place. They've only stayed at your place for what - a dozen times?
Why do you think it will devastate them that this arrangement changes? Who has been feeding this idea to you, & working on your over-developed sense of responsibility?

Look at some of the examples of FOG here - outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

• & translate them to your own life "I can only afford to pay 2/3 of the food bill, you need to take care of everything else" "You aren't being a good enough step mother to my kids" "I resent your attitude"

Can you see how much this plays on your sense of responsibility, & guilts you into offering more & more & more .... while he offers nothing, & won't even come good on the promises he's made about the divorce & debts?

Can you be really upfront with your mum about this, & listen when she sees how unfairly you have been treated? You desperately need an ally in real life: please see PP upthread who pointed out the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing. Your heart is listening to bullshit words, bullshit promises, & bullshit excuses, & wants to believe that this man is a good man. Your head, however, knows that he's bullshitting, because not one of his actions matches his words. This is why you are feeling in such a quandary - because you are waking up to an unpleasant reality, & part of you wants to shrink back & not acknowledge it. Talk it through with your lovely mum - SHE will have your best interests at heart. She can help you find a way to accept that this man is not the man he is selling himself as, & to rightfully grieve for the relationship you once thought this could be.

He can't divorce until his wife is resettled with a new man and wants a divorce??

He saw you coming.

Can't divorce until wife has new man and wants divorce = still holding out hope she'll take him back imo

In this particular situation, love is not enough.

You are too young to be dragged into the aftermath of someone's messy life choices, however much you love them.

You need stability, support, a person who brings as much to the table as you are! You are not a team, you are propping up a man who has a pretty easy ride now thanks to you.

I'm not going to say he's a bad man, but he's not the man for you. Get out now before you're 5/10 years down the line and full of resentment and regret.

Step parenting is walking a tightrope, which is controlled at both ends not by you, blindfolded

This is the best analogy I've ever read. Spot on.

Abuse isn't about "monsters". There's no such thing.

You sound so vulnerable. Take care

He's not a big bad abuser. For various reasons, he has had a really hard time over the last 5/6 years. I think he thinks in moving in and being with me he has finally arrived at happiness after struggling for a long time. I don't think he realises it comes at my expense. I think his view is that we are in it for the long haul, we're the real deal so perhaps now I'm carrying us but in the future when it's his turn he'll pick me up and support me.

But you understand that his actions don't match his words right? He's not divorcing his wife until he's absolutely sure that she won't come back to him. That is the bottom line. So all this 'real deal' stuff is just nonsense. If she clicks her fingers, he'll come running. You need to protect yourself here.

This man doesn’t love you. In any case not in any meaningful way or in the way you deserve to be loved.

There have been so many brilliant and supportive posts on this thread. I can only reiterate what everyone else has said and ask you again how you know he has had such a hard time over the last 5/6 years, how you know if he’s overpaying child support or how you know that he has debts or conversely if the debts are not far more. You only have his word for all of these things and he’s clearly a manipulator and charmer having conned your entire family and friends.

In the first 2 years of a relationship, people are supposed to be on their best behaviour. Look how appalling his behaviour actually is already. This is supposed to be a honeymoon phase but instead you’re thoroughly miserable and deep in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

If he wanted to be divorced, he would be divorced already. He’s thoroughly enjoying playing with you and your emotions. I would speculate that his ex is no contact because this is the only way she could escape his manipulative charm. He’s definitely not the poor, ickle man he’s brainwashed you into believing. Perhaps he’s getting pleasure out of tormenting his ex and you, rather like some enjoy picking the legs off a spider.

I agree with someone upthread, who said your view of the relationship is rather fairytale than real life. I don’t know if you remember the conversation around his moving into your house. I would bet he manoeuvred you into inviting him by making you feel you couldn’t live without him.

It sounds as if you have a good relationship with your mum. My dd is much younger than you but if you were my dd, I’d be telling you to run and not look back!

@PlumpAndDeliciousFatcat
They’ve been together since 2019.

Forget the SMART boundaries, your mistake here is to try to reason with him. There is a reason he is "pushing back" and becoming defensive regarding finances and that's because it bloody well benefits him to do so. He is manipulating you. Trying to reason with him just leaves you open to further manipulation.

No one can ever argue with how you feel. So whatever bullshit defence or "pushing back" he gives you, it is perfectly ok to say, "I'm just not happy any more so you need to move out." And whatever he says, just repeat.

[quote LadyFannyButton]@PlumpAndDeliciousFatcat
They’ve been together since 2019.[/quote]
Oops, sorry

I do have some really old mustard though.

To reorder two of your points:

He's not a big bad abuser. For various reasons, he has had a really hard time over the last 5/6 years. I think he thinks in moving in and being with me he has finally arrived at happiness after struggling for a long time. I don't think he realises it comes at my expense. I think his view is that we are in it for the long haul, we're the real deal so perhaps now I'm carrying us but in the future when it's his turn he'll pick me up and support me

He has told you he has had a hard time before you met him and has told you he will support you at some unspecified time in the future.

It's hard to talk to him about the things I have an issue with. I am oversensitive and I do overreact so I don't trust myself with these issues. He is very sure of himself and pushes back strongly when I try to raise an issue, and he can be very defensive on certain topics - his parenting and his financial situation in particular

So he doesn't realise, but then he does realise enough to shut you down strongly when you try to raise your concerns.

I still believe he saw you coming. One of my DC is your age - I'd be very unhappy if they were in your situation and being shut down when they tried to raise their concerns. I'd be very concerned about them altogether.

So he's not a "big bad abuser" ...

He is financially, emotionally and psychologicaly abusing OP in the most disgusting way ever.

I don't mean to patronise OP but you are young - my 26 y o daughter has just come back from creamfields - and can't stop talking about going next year. You should be planning your next hol/night out/whatever - not worrying about whose on the school run for kids who aren't yours.