Fiancé wants to completly withdraw from DSD's

[45thighs123]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone has experienced this. My fiance is so alienated from his first two kids aged 5 and 7 he now just wants to withdraw completely.

We live 250 mile away. Contact has been sporadic over the last three years and he left the ex 4.5 years ago he does have to move heaven and earth to get contact time . He just says he cannot deal with the high conflict anymore. We have a one year old together and he's amazing with his son and we have great family time . I'm at a loss , it's his choice so what am I meant to think ??!?? I'm so conflicted. I get on with DSD but to be honest I have not seen them very much. He pays maintenance and always has. He said when they are older he will be there. But I've never seen a parent emotionally withdraw before. And when I see him with our son , I always ask well could you leave him ?He says it's different circumstances, different partner and he's committed to this family life. He has deep regrets over having his first two so young and he didn't want the second to be blunt he said he knew by then the relationship was doomed and bringing another baby into it was a massive mistake. But he's still responsible. Should I just accept his decision and move on?

Going to court is a high conflict situation, potentially. This family have already endured a considerable amount, and it clearly isn't something the OPs fiance can cope with.

Those of you demanding that he fights until he drops presumably have zero problems with conflict - which may be why men who do choose to walk away.

It is never £251 to self represent. It always ends up being more complicated than that when it's high conflict.

So many people 'I couldn't/wouldn't do that' don't actually know what they'd do until in the situation.

Never trust a man willing to abandon his children.

You can self represent for very little money. Been there, done it so the money thing is just another excuse.

Men who have no contact are deadbeat dads. It's that simple. I could never be with someone like that. Their priority will always be themselves.

Whilst I don’t dispute that some men are total deadbeats, its interesting that the majority of posters are laying the fault entirely with Dad here for not trying hard enough. But ignoring the fact that the mother is, based on the OP (and that’s all we have to go on) is a barrier to contact and that actually, it’s the mother’s actions that are making contact difficult.

Nobody has made any suggestions as to how to deal with the high conflict ex, other than court, which is expensive and time consuming. Posters have instead been ready to infer facts and make sweeping judgements based on their own bias about dad. Yet people wonder why so many dads DO have a hard time.

@aSofaNearYou

No, you tell him how you would feel if he was to just give up on any of his children. These children he is planning on abandoning are your son's brothers/sisters, how and when are you going to explain to your own ds that daddy just walked away from them because he could no longer be bothered with the hassle.

Well it will be his job to explain that, won't it. Honestly, I understand why people are shocked by his attitude, but I never understand why people try to pull the "these are your child's siblings, why aren't you personally appalled" card. I am a step parent - that connection is important to my DP, not me.

It is not OPs job to push any of this.

My thoughts if the op's dh is off the ilk to just walk away from his children he is unlikely to even tell their ds of their existence, or leave it until later in life. I would not leave my child in the dark over the existence of siblings because my dh avoids issues.

@alwayswrighty

*For those saying they’d never walk away - what if your ex was abusive to your child every time they saw you? What if they told your child terrifying stories about you and told them that if they saw daddy, they’d never see mummy again? What if you saw your child becoming a shadow of their normal selves? What if you saw it only getting worse and worse over many years?

What if you spent years telling the courts, CAFCASS, social services, anyone, and nothing happened? The alienating parent was allowed to carry on?*

So I'm an NRP Mum. This is exactly what has happened to me over the last 4 years. Many of you may choose to disbelieve me, and that's fine but everytime I called DDs Dad would listen to the call and make derogatory comments in the background. I'd drive 183 miles to pick her up and they'd not be there, there'd be no answer on his phone and then on the way home I'd get a text asking where I was from my daughter and calling me all sorts.

My solicitor told me to stop throwing money at going to court because they wouldn't penalise my ex for not adhering to the court order.

I have spoken to the NSPCC, Police, School safeguarding. I have multiple letters telling me I cannot prove emotional abuse so there will be no investigation even though the school are worried.

I have ended up in hospital seriously ill due to the stress of the separation from my daughter and my exes lies.

So when everyone says they would all keep going. That's all well and good until you cannot mentally cope any longer.

So @45thighs123 I don't judge your partner. I know how damaging it is to the parent as well as the child. There are no winners here, but I understand his need to take care of his own mental health and step back.

Many on here no nothing of these situations, they are ignorant. They think that relationships with parents that have broken down are all out of The Walton's, or they are nasty ex's that use their kids as pawns in warped games against their ex to destroy their relationship in a kind of if you don't want me you're not seeing your kids. They believe their ex's should jump through every hoop to see their kids whilst making every attempt to make it remotely possible to do that. You've been through it, and you know the reality. Half the ones on here are probably wouldn't qualify for parent of the year awards, but think they have the right to tell other parents how to parent and bring up their kids. You've done your best, you know how hard you've tried, to many on here that'll never be enough, they'll still reply sometimes with capital letter responses thinking they are in a better position to know your circumstances better than you. You've done your best. xx

Know not no
Remotely impossible, not possible ( sorry)

@GertietheGherkin the case ended last year, although you are right - we did have to pay the £215 three times over the ten years. It’s £215 per application, regardless of how many hearings there are. It only gets expensive if you have representation. If you can’t afford representation, your choices are represent yourself or don’t go at all. I know which I’d choose.

[quote DelilahDingleberry]@GertietheGherkin the case ended last year, although you are right - we did have to pay the £215 three times over the ten years. It’s £215 per application, regardless of how many hearings there are. It only gets expensive if you have representation. If you can’t afford representation, your choices are represent yourself or don’t go at all. I know which I’d choose.[/quote]
I would go, for sure, but I think people are choosing to overlook the many people mentioning how frequently court orders are simply ignored by the RP. It rarely fixes everything.

I understand that. It didn’t work for us ultimately but in those ten years we achieved some periods of brilliant contact that will no doubt stay with the children as they grow up (even if they can’t express that right now). It also shows the children that dad did everything he possibly could. That’s got to be better than not trying at all.

And actually I’d disagree - most parents manage to agree contact outside court or with a simple contact order. It’s (thankfully) unusual to end up in a situation like we did. Not unheard of, but unusual.

@DelilahDingleberry

And actually I’d disagree - most parents manage to agree contact outside court or with a simple contact order. It’s (thankfully) unusual to end up in a situation like we did. Not unheard of, but unusual.

Hmmm it might actually surprise you how usual it actually is then. If it was rare, unusual or unheard of I'd be out of a job!

2 jobs. A one yr old child. 2 dead parents - possibly lost when partner was a child, but more likely in the last 5 years.

Add in high conflict at each attempt at access.

It is possible to simply have too many life events and too much stress in too short a period of time. Result - heart attack, nervous breakdown, perforated ulcer etc etc.

Better a live, functioning dad who can come back onstream a few years down the line, than a dead or disabled one now.

I'm in the same position as you OP, except my DP lives with me and my DC rather than us having a child together.

I think people are very quick to judge unless they've lived in that situation. My DP's DC's lives were made an absolute misery by their DM whenever they spent time with us. She did literally everything she could think of to stop contact when he met me. Previously he'd been sharing custody 50/50 but when he met me and her DC started having a really lovely time at my house, she got so nasty. I literally have a catalogue of shitty things she did to stop them coming. In the end, she made DD lie to a teacher and a doctor saying my DP had hit her. He absolutely did not and the GP and social worker and police (!) backed that up. In the end, it just got too messy and hard for the kids so after seeking legal advice, we stepped back and basically let her get on with it.

People act so shocked that we didn't fight harder, but when it's a long, expensive battle that you know is damaging the DC, you just make the best decision you can for them. Ultimately the DC were scared of their DM so just did and said anything she told them to and you can't reason with that.

I don't think the way your DH has behaved with his first DC is in any way indicative of how he'll treat your DC. It's a sad situation and hopefully, one day they'll be reunited, but in the meantime, don't think badly of your DH or question his commitment to you. It sounds like his behaviour is reactive rather than proactive.

Just enjoy your DC together 💐

Ultimately the DC were scared of their DM so just did and said anything she told them to and you can't reason with that.

How sad for them that no one fought harder to protect them from living solely with someone they were so scared of.

@Peppapeg

That's just what we said. She was a governor at their school so they couldn't speak to a teacher, their GP was DM's best friend and she stopped them seeing both her siblings and her parents. We told all this to the SW but because DM was the one who'd made the complaint, they were very much on 'her side'. Her parents even joined us to talk to the SW to explain what she was like but they weren't interested. It was desperately sad, but ultimately we knew the DCs lives would be easier if we weren't in it, IYSWIM.

It's been years now and people still say "why didn't he fight harder for them?" They have no idea!!

He sounds disgusting.

Interesting and sad thread. My gut instinct is to say the same as many others, that he’s not trying, that he should fight harder for them, but I do know someone in a similar situation.

In her case, it’s her ex partner who has completely alienated their son from her. They shared contact at first when they split up, then he met someone and since then he’s made it unbearable for her to see her son. His new wife insists that the child calls her ‘mummy’ - they also frequently tell the boy that his mum doesn’t want to see him when I know that’s not the case.

Over time, contact became less and less, until my friend was told she wouldn’t be seeing him again. I never understood why she didn’t go to court over this, she just said she didn’t have the money and it would cost thousands, i looked up the £215 amount for her but she insisted it was way more. She’s called the police and social services, no one has been able to help. Just over a year ago she decided for her own mental health to move on and try to forget - to me this is a sign that she’s deeply affected by what’s happened, not that she doesn’t care. It’s out of character for her, she is such a hands on caring mother that it doesn’t make sense. She said she physically can’t cope knowing he’s out there but she can’t see him so she has to pretend he’s not

So I do have some sympathy for parental alienation if that’s what this is.

However, a few things are different in this situation with the OP. She said her dh hasn’t bonded with the kids and didn’t really want the first one. And that it suits her best that he cuts them out of their lives. So not sure really what to think. Maybe he could try, just once to go to court? At least he’s given it a go then.

People act so shocked that we didn't fight harder
Why WE though. It was never your battle to fight. If indeed issues started when you came in the picture, when it went to court and subsequently having to decide how best to proceed, would it have been better if you kept away?

In the end, if it really was a case of mum forcing them to lie against their wishes, there will come a time when they will be confident enough to make contact on their own and therefore come back to your OH. That's a different situation to that of the OP whose partner has failed to properly bond with his first children.

Going from 50/50, so a time when they were managing to coparent at least to an extend to nothing at all is quite extreme. All this because she has an issue with her ex moving on with another women after some time separated? It does beg to wonder whether there is more to the story.

Sorry, to correct a couple of errors, I meant the Op’s fiancé not dh. And it’s his second child he admits not wanting, not his first.

@vivainsomnia
There isn't much more to the story unfortunately. She had an affair and threw my now DP out. I met him when he was going through his divorce. She married the guy she was seeing and didn't invite any of her family. She's moved house and hasn't let anyone know where she lives because she wants total control over who her children talk to.

It's so sad. The last time the DC stayed with us they were really excited about staying over for the whole weekend (it was a bank holiday so asked if they could stay an extra night), which sadly never happened.

There's no back story, no secrets. She just didn't like her DC having a nicer time with their Dad then with her, even though she literally did nothing with them. She used to stay in bed until lunchtime and get DC1 to look after DC2.

I say 'we' because I supported my DP 100% in his attempt to sort things out. I've never even met the ex so I wasn't in her face or in any way antagonising. Quite the opposite really.

She just isn't a very nice person, some people aren't.

Like you say, one day the DC will be older and if they want to get in touch, they'll be welcomed with open arms.

Thank you to those that have either been in or known of a similar situation. It's nice to know that life isn't perfect for everyone and difficult choices sometimes have to be made. To preserve your own sanity and wellbeing. It's a sad situation , never nice but we have to move forward as a family and welcome the girls back whenever they are ready and can make choices for themselves

The legal process is slow and a gamble but the odds of getting some contact at his home l,like millions of NRP have won,are good. There might be hoops at first like supervised contact because he's seen his children so little but I couldn't leave my kids with someone like that
100% of the time. If they are abusing towards their co-parent it's highly likely that they aren't the best parent towards the kids too. I find it shocking that he's never been down the legal route and is having to listen to threats about removal from the birth certificate. Poor kids with parents like that

If live to be 1000 I will never understand how anyone can have a child and walk out of their lives.

I hope those girls grow up not missing their biological Father and forget about him as easily as he did them.

Well it's his choice, I wouldn't imagine they will want any sort of relationship with him in the future if he isn't overly bothered now, did note you said it would be easier for you if be didn't pursue it, so good for you I guess!