ex witholding access

[triavgor]

DP divorced his wife 2 years ago, they were married 15 years. They have an 11 year old son who lives with his mum. Their contact arrangements were one weekend day per week, no overnights as mum said that was too much. This stopped in the summer and mum simply says that DS doesn't want to see his dad and is old enough to make this own decisions. For context, DP pays maintenance over and above the minimum and there are no other financial issues outstanding.

DP has asked mum via email several times to meet to discuss this and to work out how to come up with a plan together to arrange for contact to start which mum has ignored. Her only comments are to reiterate that DS is his own person and she respects his decision

DP contacts DS via message / facetime most days and the messages are rarely read or replied to. DS has also stopped replying to messages from his grandparents and didn't thank them for christmas presents. DP has said to mum that even if DS isn't speaking to him to please make sure that he at least thanks grandparents for presents and returns their messages. DS was previously v close to them. Mum has ignored this.

When DP contacted school to find out why he wasn't receiving emails mum had given them an incorrect email address.

DP has has contacted a mediator to try and address this as mum is now ignoring all messages. She has refused contact with the mediator.

There are no indications whatsoever from her texts and emails that DP was in any way violent or abusive. She accuses him of nothing other than DS doesn't want to see him and she won't force him. She will not discuss why or work with DP to overcome it. From what I can gather, and I'm obviously only seeing one side, he is a good hands-on dad who loves his son.

Can anyone shed any light as to why his ex might be acting like this and be completely against working through the issues or even discussing them with DP. I have seen all the texts and emails between them and there are genuinely no accusations against DP's behaviour at all, so I cannot believe that there's a safeguarding risk to his son.

DP lives on his own in a lovely 3 bed house with a bedroom exclusively in the hope that DS will come over, he has all DS favourite things there and DS school is in the middle of both houses. DS also has friends who live near DP so wouldn't be far from his social life. DP works from home and therefore there are no logistical problems.

Next step will be court but this is really having a massive effect on DP not least because he can't even speak to his ex to discuss it

Sorry to add another case, but this one is from just three weeks ago and from the European Court of Human Rights.

An estranged father brought a case against his government for not doing enough to prevent parental alienation. The ECHR agreed with him that his Article 8 rights (respect for private and family life) had been violated.

[[https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/eu/cases/ECHR/2021/240.html I.S. AND OTHERS v. MALTA - 9410/20 (2021) ECHR 240

sorry, this is the link

I.S. AND OTHERS v. MALTA - 9410/20 (2021) ECHR 240

I'm a 36 year old woman who suffered parental alienation from my mother at age 9/10/11. I was an only child. I remember it all clearly. Not once did my mother tell me I couldn't see my dad, or stop me from going. No, she put her adult feelings (which don't get me wrong, were perfectly valid feelings) ahead of me as a child. After she left him for her affair partner she told me, at age 9 that my dad was having sex with a teacher from our school (I attended where my mother taught). This was true. He did. After mum left him he then started shagging more than one of the teachers at the school as revenge. Awful behaviour. But I should not have known! It was irrelevant to me! He was my dad. He had been what I thought to be a good dad over all. He wasn't great as a husband, leaving major parenting stuff to my mum. But he did spend time with me, he played with me, he encouraged my learning, and he showed his love openly.

My mum told me so much about his behaviour in their intimate relationship/break up that she should never ever have shared with me! It was no wonder that by age 10 I was clinging on to the doorframe of my house screaming hysterically and refusing to go with him. None of what I was told was in any way relevant to his ability to care for me.

I think I was 12 when I started seeing him sporadically again. By then he had given up through court as I was just telling social workers over and over that I didn't want to see my dad, and throwing massive wobblers at them and telling them they couldn't make me do anything. Court made orders and I just refused to go. I had aligned myself with my mother. I had started using a new surname (her new husband - now divorced). But by 12 my mum had realised the reality of parenting a pre-teen angry girl on her own, and she couldn't handle me solo. So she stopped telling me insidious things about my dad, and slowly but surely he "bought" my love back (encouraged by my mum telling me to ask him for various things). He gave me a mobile phone (back in 1996 when 12 year olds really did not have mobile phones, so I was won over easily!), offering to take me on holidays etc. Not good parenting, but it was enough to convince me that spending some time with him wasn't a bad thing.

Unfortunately he had buggered off to a foreign country to live and work by that point - he tells me it was because he couldn't handle not seeing me. I don't buy that completely. I suspect it was financially driven as he no longer had a legal obligation to pay maintenance.

So my dad behaved badly, and wasn't the parent he could or should have been in the teen years, but I can not fully blame him given I spent several years refusing to go. But my mum should have kept this from me, his bad behaviour in the break up did not affect me when I didn't know. It only affected me once I was told.

To this day I have never told either of them I'm fully aware of all of this stuff. This far down the line - I see no reason to open old wounds (mine). My parents still hate each other and are as bitter as the day they separated.

But I know my mum turned me against my dad and involved me in adult issues. There were no safeguarding concerns. That was parental alienation.

It has affected the rest of my life. I ended up pregnant at 16, and moved out with my boyfriend. I had no reason to do this (I did it knowingly) other than I was so angry at the situation I found myself in and neither of my parents could effectively parent me by that point as my mum was still so angry and bitter, and my dad knew he wouldn't see me without buying my love (it was true. That was all I cared about by that stage - because my mum was encouraging me to get more and more out of my dad as she was angry at the divorce settlement and my dad being a wanker by avoiding maintenance payments). Parents fuck up children. What more can I say?

@nickymanchester:
The moral of your story is that your mom created alienation proactively and your father created alienation by his omission and inaction.

You had poor parenting all around you. Both of your parents had dirty hands.

I assume that reply is to me.

As it was my lived experience, I think I am best placed to say where the alienation was coming from.

They both behaved badly towards each other without thinking of the consequences of their actions, but my mum should never, ever have divulged any of what she did. She was the alienator. It created a situation where my dad had little choice but to Disney dad to try and get back in my life or walk away. I'd have rejected him if he hadn't thrown money at the situation and he knew it. His patience paid off as once I got out of the situation by way of pregnancy and moving out with my boyfriend in to a council house, my life was able to be turned around. My dad gave me enough money to stop me being another statistic of the effects of teenage pregnancy by getting me through to Uni by 19, helped fund childcare and driving lessons etc. When I graduated he helped me get my foot on the property ladder. I turned out nothing like my teenage self and the person that my mum created with her actions.

My mum enmeshed me in her turmoil. I was so afraid of rejection from her when I loved her and trusted her, that the only thing a 9 year old can do to protect themselves is to reject the other parent. I can remember exactly how I felt at the time, no child should feel that way.

I don't have a close relationship with either of my parents now. My mum keeps me at arms length, with occasional phone calls or messages and maybe seeing her 3 times a year for a couple of hours. My dad maybe once a year for a couple of hours and the occasional phone call (mostly instigated by me though).

I forgive them for their mistakes, but I can't forget.

Interestingly enough, I just realised that I am probably closer to my dad now even though I am not what you could call close. We have far more in common, I am more open with him, and feel more relaxed in his company. Although contact is mostly instigated by me, I feel his interactions are warm and loving, more genuine when they happen. My mum can be gruff and short on patience if I am not confirming to her idea of a perfect child. If I call it is nearly always answered with "what's up now". Never with love or delight to hear from me.

Sorry to derail. The thread just hit home for me seeing the denials of parental alienation existing when I know it full well happened to me. I almost felt like others were trying to gaslight me.

@ThisMustBeMyDream
My friend had a similar experience growing up. Her dad had an affair with the principal of her middle school. All of the teachers and many of the students knew about the affair. My friend found out when one of the other students told her. She was 12 years of age and terribly embarrassed by the situation.

She blamed her mother for not telling her and leaving her to find out in such an embarrassing manner. For years she lost respect for her mother for staying with and keeping the secrets of a " cheater ". Those were her words.

Her parents divorced and she refused to see her father from age 12 to age 17. She saw him at her grandfather's funeral. She lived with her mother but had lost respect for her mother because she tolerated her father's cheating.

Today she says that she is reconciled with both of them. She says that she loves them both, but she does respect either of them.

She is adamant that she does not want her daughter to grow up to be a woman like her grandmother, and she does not want her son to be a man at all like his grandfather.

She is 45 years old and she still feels as though they cheated her out of what should have been some of the best years of her childhood.

She knows that they did not make any of those decisions with the intention of hurting her, but she says that they made those decisions with total indifference to the impact that those decisions would have on her life.

I'm divorced
It's my job not to put barriers up for contact which is very different to promoting contact. It is up to my ex to put the graft in to make the kids want contact. It's been up to my kids whether or not to go and I've always told ex that I won't force them if they say no.
I have 3 kids with ex and my oldest hasn't seen him in years. I know why but I have no inclination to discuss this with ex as it will end up in an argument where he denies what dc1 thinks and I'm not getting drawn into that argument. He comes to my house to pick up the other 2 so could have talked to dc1 but he's never done it and it's been too long for reconciliation. Dc1's reasons for not seeing his Dad doesn't affect dc2/3.

If ex forced me to go to mediation over this then I'd be fucking furious. I've not made contact difficult or influenced dc1's decision and I would never force him to go. I don't owe my ex anything other than keeping the kids well when they aren't with him and not putting up barriers to contact. I suspect he has an inkling of why dc1 won't see him but if he pushed me into an explanation then it's prolonging the pain for dc1 and contact is supposed to be for his benefit.

I suspect that ex has never gone the legal route as he knows that dc1 is too stubborn to be manipulated by me.

If your partner is going to take action he needs to be quick as the longer this goes on, the harder it will be to reverse things. He is at a borderline age where his opinions will count legally

It's my job not to put barriers up for contact which is very different to promoting contact. It is up to my ex to put the graft in to make the kids want contact. It's been up to my kids whether or not to go and I've always told ex that I won't force them if they say no.

But do you not think it's easier to take that stance when you're the RP?

My DP has 2 children and he and his ex split up when the youngest was 18 months. She's now 7 and her memories are obviously of living mainly with her mum, and as such her attachment is stronger to her mum.

She has a strong relationship with my DP and he's a great father, but the reality is if she was given the option to choose she would just constantly choose to stay with her mum. It's her main home, and her mum is her main bond and safety blanket. There have been times she has cried and said she didn't want to come to DP on his weekends, and luckily her mum has encouraged her as she knows her daughter needs a relationship with her dad.

If my DP's ex took the stance that you have described, despite his best efforts he'd likely have no relationship with his daughter by now. Both parents are so key in supporting the relationship with the other, and I'd say even more so with the RP because they have the greatest influence over the children and their feelings.