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Step-parenting

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

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Original poster

ex witholding access

135 replies

triavgor · 08/04/2021 08:47

DP divorced his wife 2 years ago, they were married 15 years. They have an 11 year old son who lives with his mum. Their contact arrangements were one weekend day per week, no overnights as mum said that was too much. This stopped in the summer and mum simply says that DS doesn't want to see his dad and is old enough to make this own decisions. For context, DP pays maintenance over and above the minimum and there are no other financial issues outstanding.

DP has asked mum via email several times to meet to discuss this and to work out how to come up with a plan together to arrange for contact to start which mum has ignored. Her only comments are to reiterate that DS is his own person and she respects his decision

DP contacts DS via message / facetime most days and the messages are rarely read or replied to. DS has also stopped replying to messages from his grandparents and didn't thank them for christmas presents. DP has said to mum that even if DS isn't speaking to him to please make sure that he at least thanks grandparents for presents and returns their messages. DS was previously v close to them. Mum has ignored this.

When DP contacted school to find out why he wasn't receiving emails mum had given them an incorrect email address.

DP has has contacted a mediator to try and address this as mum is now ignoring all messages. She has refused contact with the mediator.

There are no indications whatsoever from her texts and emails that DP was in any way violent or abusive. She accuses him of nothing other than DS doesn't want to see him and she won't force him. She will not discuss why or work with DP to overcome it. From what I can gather, and I'm obviously only seeing one side, he is a good hands-on dad who loves his son.

Can anyone shed any light as to why his ex might be acting like this and be completely against working through the issues or even discussing them with DP. I have seen all the texts and emails between them and there are genuinely no accusations against DP's behaviour at all, so I cannot believe that there's a safeguarding risk to his son.

DP lives on his own in a lovely 3 bed house with a bedroom exclusively in the hope that DS will come over, he has all DS favourite things there and DS school is in the middle of both houses. DS also has friends who live near DP so wouldn't be far from his social life. DP works from home and therefore there are no logistical problems.

Next step will be court but this is really having a massive effect on DP not least because he can't even speak to his ex to discuss it

OP posts:

Bibidy · 08/04/2021 12:42

[quote KurtWilde]@triavgor she could at the very least tell him why, but she's under no obligation to. And for all you know he might ALREADY know why. You really don't have any idea what has gone on between father and son up to this point, or the circumstances of his relationship prior to the split.

At this point I think you need to step away from the problem as it's not yours it's your boyfriends. You sound very invested in his relationship with a child you've never even met or seen together with his dad to gauge the dynamic. [/quote]
Obviously OP is going to be invested, this is her DP and she cares about him? I would think this situation is upsetting for him and so of course she cares about it. I think it's so weird when people write statements like that - none of us would be very good partners if we never cared about problems our other halves were having.

It's not like she's getting on the phone to the ex to demand access, she's just trying to find out what others have done in this scenario and what steps her boyfriend could take to remedy it.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 12:43

[quote KurtWilde]@Funfairballoon I've dealt with two exh now and their contact with our DC. I've spoken to mediators and family solicitors and I can say with confidence that is most certainly isn't up to the ex to facilitate contact. The DPs son isn't unavailable for contact, he's CHOOSING not to have it. How would you propose his mum make him available for it without forcing or encouraging? [/quote]
I haven't said she needs to facilitate it. She needs to make the child available for contact. Two very different things.

We don't know if she's making him available or not, with respect his dad only has his mother's word for it which isn't enough.

She needs to make him available as in let dad contact him, she might be doing that, she might not. We don't know.

Personally In her shoes I would ask my child to tell dad himself because I don't think just blanking someone is on.

Graphista · 08/04/2021 12:46

That is a huge and rather bizarre jump

No it was based upon the claimed scenario that contact was occurring just fine and then suddenly stopped with no apparent reason.

There's rarely no reason and for a sudden stop there's usually a worrying reason. Domestic violence and child abuse are actually pretty common sadly so not such a leap especially when op doesn't know anything except what the boyfriend has told her.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 12:49

@Graphista

That is a huge and rather bizarre jump

No it was based upon the claimed scenario that contact was occurring just fine and then suddenly stopped with no apparent reason.

As someone who's been in this position, who's step child was alienated by the other parent, I can tell you it absolutely does happen, and actually it happens quite frequently unfortunately.

It is a stretch to jump to domestic violence and child abuse with no evidence whatsoever.

GettingItOutThere · 08/04/2021 12:57

just a question, say he does go to court and gets an order for the child to go to his dads say every saturday/sunday whatever...the child is 11, how is this legally enforcable without physically dragging the child into the car (assuming he actually does not want to go)

just a general question i always wondered in situations like this. 11 or at any age, how/why can you force a child to go?

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 12:59

@GettingItOutThere

just a general question i always wondered in situations like this. 11 or at any age, how/why can you force a child to go?

Well, it's not, and you can't.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:01

@Bibidy of course she cares about her boyfriend, but at present that's all he is. They don't live together nor have they met each other's DC which makes it sound like a very short relationship at present. She only has his word for what's going on here, and at this stage it's fair to say she has no idea what went on with his ex or what his relationship with his son was actually like!

AnneElliott · 08/04/2021 13:01

Does he actually turn up at contact times and try to talk to his son? What happens then? Or does he just accept texts saying he doesn't want to see him?

I would also caution you that so many men take an interest in their kids when they get a new GF. My friends who are single parents always know when ex has a new GF as they suddenly take an interest in their kids - probably because new GF wants to know why they're not seeing them! So bear in mind this could be a performance for your benefit.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:03

@Funfairballoon she can't make him available for contact if he's refusing to go and choosing not to see his dad. That's the point I was making.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 13:04

[quote KurtWilde]@Funfairballoon she can't make him available for contact if he's refusing to go and choosing not to see his dad. That's the point I was making. [/quote]
She can encourage him to at least tell his dad why, or at least tell him no, himself.

If you're old enough to make big adult decisions, you're old enough to tell people yourself surely.

As a mother I would be disappointed.

theworldsbiggestcrocodile · 08/04/2021 13:05

Bibidy-totally agree. Of course OP would be concerned about something that is upsetting her DP who she cares about.

EnoughnowIthink · 08/04/2021 13:05

refusing to facilitate phone calls during the times they are with her

@theworldsbiggestcrocodile

long story short, I stopped facilitating phone contact between my then young children and the ex because it was horribly intrusive. At one point, I was literally terrified of missing his calls and sitting on the sofa 15 minutes before he was due to call (which could be anytime - he would literally text me and say 'I am calling at X time') with the phone on my lap waiting. I was so scared of not doing the 'right thing' by the children that it had got to the point that I was curtailing the life we had together so they could speak to him. On top of that, he would insist I was removed from the room and had them doing video chats all around the house. Eventually I snapped. Threatened him with harassment after one day when I was in the car driving home and he called 6 times on my mobile and had left 12 messages on my home ansaphone, each one more threatening than the last. The calls stopped. The downside was I was no longer able to call them when they were with him but that was no huge deal as he frequently didn't answer the phone anyway (something he went mad at me for!).

I am all for some kind of contact between child and parent every day but be careful how it intrudes into the other parent's life. If things are difficult between ex partners, it is something like this that becomes a massive control issue at just about everyone's expense. I am not suggesting your partner is trying to do what my ex did, but it is worth considering how his desire to talk with his children is impacting their life with their mum. If he can accept she may not always pick up because it's not convenient, rather than trying to railroad in 'you must answer the phone at 6pm every evening', he might get somewhere. Losen the control a bit and she might do the same.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:09

She 'could' do many things but the fact is that no one here - including OP - knows what the boyfriend was like with the ex. He might have been verbally abusive, he might gaslight her, he might twist what she says. And so she's stopped communicating other than to say her DS doesn't want to see his dad. And that is totally within her rights.

theworldsbiggestcrocodile · 08/04/2021 13:10

Enoughnow-absolutely. But in this case he has a week every other week where he doesn't see them due to the contact arrangements she has devised and insisted on (which he is trying to challenge via legal channels). He has just asked her to get them to call him at some point of her choosing over the weekend that falls in the middle which doesn't seem excessive. She has refused 'unless they ask to call him' but that seems unlikely as they are quite little and just wouldn't think about it really.

Bibidy · 08/04/2021 13:11

@GettingItOutThere

just a general question i always wondered in situations like this. 11 or at any age, how/why can you force a child to go?

Tbh I think the reality is that most kids will go when both parents are supportive of it - unless there is neglect or mistreatment in the other household, it's rare for children to be so desperate not to see their other parent.

When it goes through court, both parents have to stick to the order so both are more likely to encourage the cooperation of the child I guess.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 13:11

@KurtWilde

No we don't know, but I do find it strange that everyone's first reaction is oh well he must have been a total bastard.

EnoughnowIthink · 08/04/2021 13:13

She can encourage him to at least tell his dad why, or at least tell him no, himself

Who's to say she hasn't encouraged him? What if he flat out says no? Then what? What is mum supposed to do? It's pretty shit having to say to your parent 'I don't want to see you' and be forced to justify that. It will be shitter if he actually has good reason but would rather his mum didn't know - what if dad hit him, for example, and he knows he did something awful to deserve dad going mad at him and he knows his mum would also be mad at him but he's worried mum will call the police because she once innocently said 'if anyone ever does that to you, I'd be calling 999' whilst watching Coronation Street and he's taken it to heart? So he's trying to protect dad, protect mum and protect himself all at the same time and has no outlet for it. This is why going to court and getting CAFCASS involved would be a good thing so they can unpick it all.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 13:15

@EnoughnowIthink

She can encourage him to at least tell his dad why, or at least tell him no, himself

It's pretty shit not seeing your child and not being told why, I imagine.

These things can be complex, of course, but it needs both parents to cooperate and she obviously isn't.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:17

Well to be fair @Funfairballoon none of us know what any of them are like. OP makes him out to be some poor dad who isn't getting to see his son and even the post title is aimed at ex being in the wrong. But the fact is he didn't push for better contact in the first instance, and not even OP knows what he was like with his ex and DS other than what he's told her. As far as I can tell the ex isn't withholding contact, she's backing up her sons wishes. But then again I did say earlier in my posts that it may be her who's behind it.

Hazelnutlatteplease · 08/04/2021 13:18

no evidence whatsoever

This is exactly the problem all there is is one set of emails that says nothing. There is no evidence of parental alienation, but the Op is happy to accept that explanation because it doesn't shake her personal world.

It wont matter how many people who step forward and say domestic violence is a distinct possibility, it's not what the OP wants to hear.

My last emails with ex sound very much like the emails in the OP. Ex knew exactly why the kids didnt want to go. I wasnt going to repeat the allegations and risk causing trouble, the SS report was wishy washy and the police decided not to prosecute so we were depending either on a finding of fact or him not bothering with court.

His wife and certainly family friends dont know he hurt DC. SS decided they didnt want to "disrupt a second family" as those children weren't considered to be at risk 😵😵😵 and he wasnt telling. In the OPs case she wasnt even present at any of the contacts.

The best you can say of the guy that is independently verified was that he didn't put an effort in with school and didnt bother with court when contact was substantially reduced. (I wonder if the OP even has any independent evidence that the ex reduced the contact not her DP) Neither of the two verifiable "facts" scream worlds best dad.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 13:18

@KurtWilde

Well to be fair *@Funfairballoon* none of us know what any of them are like. OP makes him out to be some poor dad who isn't getting to see his son and even the post title is aimed at ex being in the wrong. But the fact is he didn't push for better contact in the first instance, and not even OP knows what he was like with his ex and DS other than what he's told her. As far as I can tell the ex isn't withholding contact, she's backing up her sons wishes. But then again I did say earlier in my posts that it may be her who's behind it.

No that's true, I agree that court is probably only way to get to the bottom of it.

Bibidy · 08/04/2021 13:22

[quote KurtWilde]@Bibidy of course she cares about her boyfriend, but at present that's all he is. They don't live together nor have they met each other's DC which makes it sound like a very short relationship at present. She only has his word for what's going on here, and at this stage it's fair to say she has no idea what went on with his ex or what his relationship with his son was actually like! [/quote]
Everyone is 'just' a boyfriend/girlfriend at some stage though aren't they, doesn't mean you don't care just as deeply and feel invested in things that are making them unhappy. I didn't meet my boyfriend's children for a year, and we didn't live together until we'd been together 3.5 years. It's not always an indicator of how serious a relationship is.

Appreciate OP probably won't know all the ins and outs of what's gone before with the ex and son, but equally I guess she was always only have his side of things as she's never going to be sitting down to go over it with his ex. So she has to take what he says at face value.

I just think that an 11 year old isn't old enough to make the decision to totally cut out one of his parents and I'm sure his mum would probably agree if he suddenly decided he wanted to live with his dad instead and wouldn't communicate with her at all.

Endeavormorse · 08/04/2021 13:24

Was the break up instigated by him? She’s probably getting back at him through the child if she is still upset/angry about it.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:32

@Bibidy as I said, of course she cares about him, but she seems very invested in a situation she knows very little about and is quick to place blame on the ex when it's clear her boyfriend - at the very least - hasn't chased up proper contact in the last couple of years and it would appear only now he has someone to impress is he actively trying to change that.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 13:32

Wow just realised that post was one long sentence! Apologies!!

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