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Step-parenting

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

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Original poster

ex witholding access

135 replies

triavgor · 08/04/2021 08:47

DP divorced his wife 2 years ago, they were married 15 years. They have an 11 year old son who lives with his mum. Their contact arrangements were one weekend day per week, no overnights as mum said that was too much. This stopped in the summer and mum simply says that DS doesn't want to see his dad and is old enough to make this own decisions. For context, DP pays maintenance over and above the minimum and there are no other financial issues outstanding.

DP has asked mum via email several times to meet to discuss this and to work out how to come up with a plan together to arrange for contact to start which mum has ignored. Her only comments are to reiterate that DS is his own person and she respects his decision

DP contacts DS via message / facetime most days and the messages are rarely read or replied to. DS has also stopped replying to messages from his grandparents and didn't thank them for christmas presents. DP has said to mum that even if DS isn't speaking to him to please make sure that he at least thanks grandparents for presents and returns their messages. DS was previously v close to them. Mum has ignored this.

When DP contacted school to find out why he wasn't receiving emails mum had given them an incorrect email address.

DP has has contacted a mediator to try and address this as mum is now ignoring all messages. She has refused contact with the mediator.

There are no indications whatsoever from her texts and emails that DP was in any way violent or abusive. She accuses him of nothing other than DS doesn't want to see him and she won't force him. She will not discuss why or work with DP to overcome it. From what I can gather, and I'm obviously only seeing one side, he is a good hands-on dad who loves his son.

Can anyone shed any light as to why his ex might be acting like this and be completely against working through the issues or even discussing them with DP. I have seen all the texts and emails between them and there are genuinely no accusations against DP's behaviour at all, so I cannot believe that there's a safeguarding risk to his son.

DP lives on his own in a lovely 3 bed house with a bedroom exclusively in the hope that DS will come over, he has all DS favourite things there and DS school is in the middle of both houses. DS also has friends who live near DP so wouldn't be far from his social life. DP works from home and therefore there are no logistical problems.

Next step will be court but this is really having a massive effect on DP not least because he can't even speak to his ex to discuss it

OP posts:

TristantheTyrannosaurus · 08/04/2021 13:38

So many of these threads by the girlfriend of the father, but not the father himself.

This is his deal. He's the one who needs to be heading and fronting this. Instead he finds some woman to do it.

theworldsbiggestcrocodile · 08/04/2021 13:44

Well I guess statistically there aren't that many dads on Mumsnet?

Magda72 · 08/04/2021 13:53

Personally I think any parent who allows a child to cease communication with the other parent (bar there being a safeguarding issue) is 100% in the wrong.
Parent/child(ren) relationships come in all shapes & sizes & maybe this man hasn't 'fought' for more access over the years but a dad is still a dad, & to encourage a cessation of contact & to deny an 11 year old a relationship with their other parent, even if you believe it to be less than ideal, is bang out of order.
He was seeing his ds regularly (even if Mumsnetters believe it to be insufficient) & is paying maintenance & there appears to be no safeguarding issues so imo the dm is behaving appallingly.

Theunamedcat · 08/04/2021 13:55

[quote triavgor]@Theunamedcat If DS doesn't want to see him that may well be the right decision. I have no evidence to suggest that he's toxic although I wasn't living in their home. However, I do think that his ex's refusal to enter into any conversation about why DS doesn't want to see him, even through a mediator is a concern.[/quote]
My son doesn't give "reasons" as such just i don't want to go today thats it when pressed he said he didn't like his dads car air freshener when the counselling was going on he told them it was because they all bad mouthed me I could literally drop the children off to see him (with food) go to work pick them up later and the entire time he was going on at them about how I was using him for free childcare and as i was working i should be paying he was even heard to discuss if I had a boyfriend and wondered if I was using the time for private activities who wants there child to go through that ffs

Hazelnutlatteplease · 08/04/2021 13:57

appears to be no safeguarding issues

Appears being the point. The question is whether someone who hasn't even seen the child with the parent would have any clue whether there was safeguarding issues....

Soontobe60 · 08/04/2021 14:09

@BrilliantBetty

He's 11 so his preference should be taken in to account.

It's not for mum to persuade DS to see his father if he refuses to go. She allows contact with father, but DS doesn't answer the calls / messages. It's also not for her to sort out contact with ex-Inlaws and arrange 'thank you' for gift etc. They are no responsibility of hers anymore.

He's probably not telling you about something that has happened. Or perhaps it's to do with you and DPs relationship why this has come about?

Or she’s a controlling parent who wants to get back at her ex by using her child. Parental alienation is a real thing. By not allowing her child to see his father, assuming there is nothing wrong with his parenting, she is being very controlling and doing harm to her son.

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 14:27

@Soontobe60 why the assumption that the ex is bitter and that the DH ended the marriage? For all you know he was abusive and the ex brought about the end of the marriage, and the DS has decided that his relationship with his dad is tenuous and he can't be bothered anymore?

Why does it always fall back on the ex must be bitter and using her child as a weapon? Of course it happens but there's no saying that's what's happened here! Why do people always assume it's the man who ended the relationship?

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 14:40

[quote KurtWilde]@Soontobe60 why the assumption that the ex is bitter and that the DH ended the marriage? For all you know he was abusive and the ex brought about the end of the marriage, and the DS has decided that his relationship with his dad is tenuous and he can't be bothered anymore?

KurtWilde · 08/04/2021 14:45

Honestly @Funfairballoon fair point. The thing is we just don't know

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 14:59

@KurtWilde

Honestly *@Funfairballoon* fair point. The thing is we just don't know

Nope we don't! Were all just assuming based on our own view and experience really, just as op is.

Court likely is the best option as they will be knowledgeable and hopefully objective.

Hazelnutlatteplease · 08/04/2021 15:01

Why does it always fall back that the man must be a shit dad or abusive?

In this case because his previous passivity doesn't scream involved dad...
Any dad who expects the ex to do "wifework" when separated displays spectacularly poor boundaries....

Poor boundaries plus lack of care, it's a closer leap to shit parent than poor hard done by decent parent.

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 15:05

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Why does it always fall back that the man must be a shit dad or abusive?

In this case because his previous passivity doesn't scream involved dad...
Any dad who expects the ex to do "wifework" when separated displays spectacularly poor boundaries....

Poor boundaries plus lack of care, it's a closer leap to shit parent than poor hard done by decent parent.

It's a bit of a bias attitude. We don't know whether he asked the ex to give his email to the school, whether the email was had by he school when they were together, or whether she said oh I've gave school your email and deliberately did it wrong. You're assuming he asked her to do it.

Op says he's had legal involvement and trusted the view of his solicitor re the contact. Was it the best course of action? No, course not, but he didn't necessarily know that at the time.

Dp at first accepted shitty contact because his ex said it's that or nothing and never see them again.

He then realised that no this wasn't okay.

We just don't know. He might be shit but I think it's unfair to jump to that conclusion based only on what op has said.

Magda72 · 08/04/2021 16:40

All those saying the dad must have been abusive seem to be missing the fact that up until recently the child was seeing his dad on a regular basis. If there was a safeguarding issue why didn't the dm flag it at the time of divorce?

EnoughnowIthink · 08/04/2021 16:44

If there was a safeguarding issue why didn't the dm flag it at the time of divorce?

It may not have been an issue at the time of divorce?

Magda72 · 08/04/2021 16:53

@EnoughnowIthink abusers have a history of abuse.
Furthermore op has seen correspondence & nowhere does the dm mention abuse.
If the man in question is as conniving and abusive as some of you are suggesting it would (by it's very nature) have presented itself over the years in the marriage & therefore should have been flagged at the time of divorce.

EnoughnowIthink · 08/04/2021 17:26

Still doesn’t mean something hasn’t happened?

And plenty of people aren’t abusive until they are. It starts somewhere.

And plenty of women suffer in silence and just want it over and done with so they can walk away. If he had previously shown no abuse towards the child then we all know that the courts would support contact. They support contact with men who have convicted of abusing their children FGS. Let’s not pretend that doesn’t happen. Sometimes the path of least resistance is the easiest way to deal with things.

I broadly agree this sounds like mum has probably got a hand in it. But she might not have. Other scenarios are available. It is likely a mixture of several scenarios.

Hazelnutlatteplease · 08/04/2021 17:45

even through a mediator

Just out of curiosity what does the result of the MIAM letter from the mediator say?

Bibidy · 08/04/2021 17:50

[quote KurtWilde]@Bibidy as I said, of course she cares about him, but she seems very invested in a situation she knows very little about and is quick to place blame on the ex when it's clear her boyfriend - at the very least - hasn't chased up proper contact in the last couple of years and it would appear only now he has someone to impress is he actively trying to change that. [/quote]
I get what you're saying but just not sure why so many are quick to assume OP 'knows nothing about' the situation just because she might not have been around to witness it herself. She is only asking for advice so she can potentially help her DP, she's not actually wading into the scenario herself.

It does sounds like her partner wasn't seeing his child a lot before the cut off happened, but like you have said we really don't know why that was from either side. Maybe he couldn't be arsed enough and now wants to impress OP, or maybe his ex said it was one weekend day or nothing and he went along with that.

I just feel it's a bit of a red flag that the one parent who does have regular contact with this 11-year-old boy refuses to encourage him to communicate with his father in any way or discuss the subject. He is very young to be left to his own devices on a topic like this and really is too young to sever his relationship with not only his father but his paternal grandparents also.

But obviously, as with all threads on here, we don't really know anything and can only go from the initial post.

itsgettingwierd · 08/04/2021 18:04

I'd usually say 11 is more than enough age to make own decision.

However the fact mum has refused overnights "as it's too much" would make me consider the possibility of influence (conscious or unconsciously).

Sometimes children form decisions beaded on simple things they hear in passing which the think is how they should feel - especially at an influential age his ds is.

itsgettingwierd · 08/04/2021 18:08

It's refusing to engage in why and working it out. That could be parental alienation.

WhatHappenedToThose · 08/04/2021 18:24

Parental alienation is used to silence women who have been abused, and to further abuse them through the courts.

I would tread very, very lightly here OP. Your partner has shown very little interest in being a parent and then all of a sudden he is desperate for contact? Losing control, more like. I would believe his ex far more than I would believe him.

Men who are shit fathers don't suddenly have a change of heart.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/domestic-abuse-parental-alienation-family-courts-brunel-study-a9294726.html

Bibidy · 08/04/2021 18:25

@itsgettingwierd

I'd usually say 11 is more than enough age to make own decision.

However the fact mum has refused overnights "as it's too much" would make me consider the possibility of influence (conscious or unconsciously).

Sometimes children form decisions beaded on simple things they hear in passing which the think is how they should feel - especially at an influential age his ds is.

See, my SS is 11 and there is no way he's mentally or emotionally mature enough to make a well-balanced decision as to whether he wants to cut one whole side of his family out of his life, including his own dad.

I could see him being listened to about how often per week he wants to see his dad, or that he doesn't necessarily want to spend the whole weekend anymore, but not that he doesn't want to see him at all.

Itlod1982 · 08/04/2021 19:17

When i split with my exH there is no way he would have accepted one day a week contact and no overnights - why would it have been too much for a 9 year old to stay overnight with his dad?

My exH wasn't happy with the initial amount of contact I had proposed and we reached an agreement via mediation that we both felt was best for DD. If my ex hadn't been happy he would've taken me to court. End of.

Tbh I'm not surprised they don't have a great relationship with the amount of contact. He should've fought for more initially

Funfairballoon · 08/04/2021 22:58

[quote WhatHappenedToThose]Parental alienation is used to silence women who have been abused, and to further abuse them through the courts.

Men who are shit fathers don't suddenly have a change of heart.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/domestic-abuse-parental-alienation-family-courts-brunel-study-a9294726.html[/quote]
So are you saying it doesn't happen?

Yesitsbess · 08/04/2021 23:13

Oof. There's a lot going on here on this thread.

I know parental alienation gets chucked about a lot but there is also a thing called loyalty binds. Where a child acts a certain way because they think that's what 'X' parent wants, or they know that acting another way would upset that parent. So no obvious "coaching" but the child picks up on what they think that parent wants and acts accordingly.

It's a tough one and probably needs some proper help to unpick.

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