Stepdads vs Stepmums feelings about stepchildren

[SandyY2K]

I was thinking how it seems like more SMs than SDs don't quite like or prefer it when their DSC aren't around I didn't want to hijack the other thread, so started this one.

Can any SD say how they feel about their SC? Do you prefer it when they're not at home?

As I don't expect many SDs are on here, if you have a DP/DH who is a stepdad to your kids, has he said he prefers it when your kids aren't there? Or if he hasn't said it, do you think he feels this way?

I said I wondered if that's because women tend to post on forums like this more, as I noticed an increasing amount of SMs have negative feelings about DSCs visitation.

The feelings vary, but can include, anxiety, resentment, feeling uncomfortable, on edge or just a preference for them not being there.

There was a feeling that it's different for Stepdads for different reasons on the other thread.

I found this comment (below) provides an alternative view from a Stepdad's perspective. Obviously, this is just one person's view.

Perhaps they've just resigned themselves to the fact they their options are limited.

If my DW and I split up, I would want another relationship. I still wouldn't really find childless women appealing because most of them want to have kids of their own and I am 100% done

That means I'd just be trading one set of annoying SC for a different set of annoying SC
It's not like I'd meet the woman with magical non-annoying children. That's just how children are, tbh.

So, my totally best move is to be happy with where I am, stop complaining and work to make this situation the best I can.

Are men just more practical about it?

I have 2 children because I can afford a nice home, private school education, travel experiences and pay for college education at the schools of their choice. I can do this comfortably on my own; fortunately, I do not have to do it on my own

While I couldn’t afford private education and university fees, i did make sure I was relatively stable- own home, decent job etc before I had kids. My mum was widowed young and I saw how never having worked affected us.

I think they key, as pp said, is so many women give up their jobs when they have children, with the expectation that the father will continue to provide. Only to find that one salary will not cover two homes, two sets of bills etc, but they still expect the same standard of living and disposable income as when they were married.

@bluebluezoo

I agree many women who choose not to be prepared to support their children on their own may easily be the type to expect the husband's contribution to the household to remain unchanged after a divorce. That is flawed thinking and courts generally do not align maintenance amounts with that line of thinking.

It is unfortunate to that many men choose to have more children than they can adequately support and still live comfortably themselves. If paying his maintenance support causes a father to have to compromise his standard of living or to not be able to afford to have additional children, that simply means that his income and obligations have reached a threshold that he cannot afford additional dependents without acquiring additional income.

The solution to both situations is for both parents to find ways (usually employment -this may mean working 2 jobs) to increase their income and earning potential.

For many a second family may represent a luxury that they can ill afford rather than a necessity .

A partner choosing to reproduce with a person who for whatever reason cannot adequately support himself or herself and at the same time meet his or her already existed legal obligations is a person who is knowingly and willingly entering into that situation. The outcome is foreseeable, and they have made a fully informed choice. Neither society nor the courts are to be blamed for your fully informed choice; sometimes people want a certain man or woman more than they care about the future that they will have with that man or woman. Once the choice is made then they begin to complain about all of the very predictable and easily foreseeable problems.

Human nature may change, but mathematics and fixed income are constants.

I think that another reason that step mothers might feel a bit of resentment is that they are often blamed for their partners poor behaviour.

An example is a thread on here that I remember where a father was planning to have his children more than usual for a couple months and posters piled on saying how it must be his girlfriend's fault and she blatently made him request this even though there was no evidence for this.

There was another thread berating women for being in relationships with men who don't pay maintaintanece, ignoring the fact that no-one would be able check this in early dating without requesting bank statements and it's not up to women to police men's behaviour.

An example is a thread on here that I remember where a father was planning to have his children more than usual for a couple months and posters piled on saying how it must be his girlfriend's fault and she blatently made him request this even though there was no evidence for this

A father wanting his kids 50:50 is always to get out of paying maintenance too. Not because he might want to see his kids...

Shared care won’t be the norm as women rely on maintenance because if gave up work.

I am a SM who prefers sometimes my SC not to be here, but at the same time prefers some times for my own DC not to be here, I enjoy the break!

My partner has said he likes the kids not being here too, that’s both his and mine. However mine are here more. I think my DD he doesn’t mind so much, she’s a teen so can be left to her own devices and they get on well, she can also be really fun and he will often actively encourage her to come do stuff with us.

My DS not so much, he cares for him and does a lot for him. But I know by my own admission my DS is hard work. He has ADHD and is very over excitable, forgetful and at times mardy. He’s not an easy kid by any stretch of the imagination! So yes my DP prefers sometimes for him not to be here; but then so do I! It’s nice to be able to relax. And yes I love him whereas I doubt my DP does, he cares for him but doesn’t love him the same way I do.

That means I'd just be trading one set of annoying SC for a different set of annoying SC Ha ha that is a great comment! Very down to earth.

I know it’s different for everyone, but I do think that Step Dad’s get an easier time on the whole. Step Mum’s are stepping on Mum’s toes - and that is a vicious minefield! Especially if there are step daughters.

Mum’s and women are often the social hubs, the home centres, and even if not they are the female top dog in the home which doesn’t always go down too well - it’s like taking over another females territory.

I found my Step Dad very annoying at first, but like a lot of men he was off working a lot and my mum was the central person in the home.

My Step Mum I didn’t live with, but she was much more socially manipulative and didn’t like me being around.

As a step mum myself, I found that there were loyalty conflicts with my step daughters where liking me = being disloyal to their Mum who was hugely resentful (not the OW!). So I would not be inclined to do it again. But unlike men I’m not going for a new relationship with someone half my age, so any step kids will be grown up. Phew!

[quote Tiredoftattler]@bluebluezoo

I agree many women who choose not to be prepared to support their children on their own may easily be the type to expect the husband's contribution to the household to remain unchanged after a divorce. That is flawed thinking and courts generally do not align maintenance amounts with that line of thinking.

It is unfortunate to that many men choose to have more children than they can adequately support and still live comfortably themselves. If paying his maintenance support causes a father to have to compromise his standard of living or to not be able to afford to have additional children, that simply means that his income and obligations have reached a threshold that he cannot afford additional dependents without acquiring additional income.

The solution to both situations is for both parents to find ways (usually employment -this may mean working 2 jobs) to increase their income and earning potential.

For many a second family may represent a luxury that they can ill afford rather than a necessity .

A partner choosing to reproduce with a person who for whatever reason cannot adequately support himself or herself and at the same time meet his or her already existed legal obligations is a person who is knowingly and willingly entering into that situation. The outcome is foreseeable, and they have made a fully informed choice. Neither society nor the courts are to be blamed for your fully informed choice; sometimes people want a certain man or woman more than they care about the future that they will have with that man or woman. Once the choice is made then they begin to complain about all of the very predictable and easily foreseeable problems.

Human nature may change, but mathematics and fixed income are constants.[/quote]
I don't agree. At least from a UK perspective the courts are biased and frankly the whole framework for determining child maintenance and child access is not adequate, highly expensive and can be very slow to resolve.

I don't agree. At least from a UK perspective the courts are biased and frankly the whole framework for determining child maintenance and child access is not adequate, highly expensive and can be very slow to resolve.

This 1000 times over. When the majority of the ensure judges are white males (who have SAHM’s), they absolutely award maintenance based on ‘lifestyle’ and a woman refusing to work because of the needs of the children.
Through (about 18 months) of court proceedings to revisit maintenance with his exw, there was only one judge who ripped the EXW to shreds in an enforcement hearing. Female judge.
Other than that the woman has gotten away with murder and blatant disregard for court orders/ disclosure orders. She doesn’t care as she knows a judge is hardly going to put her in prison as a primary carer.

On the one hand I admire her complete manipulation of the system. She has bled my exp dry and used every loophole to drag out proceedings. She has zero morals or self respect. She just wants him bled dry financially and the courts are the mecanism by which women get away with it.

For all the talk of abuse, family court proceedings for access and maintenance sadly exacerbate abuse against the fathers (and I don’t say that lightly). It’s been a soul destroying process to witness. And I feel for any individual who has to go through courts to secure contact with their own children.

I should add, the hearings were my exp in financial proceedings. Only one judge (out of so many) actually saw the behaviour for what it was, and called out the EXW for it. Every other judge ignored the fact that another order had been breached and simply asked what she could do? Could do? Fucks sake. Make the woman disclose her financials! It’s your job!

Only the female judge laid down the actual law and enforced it. None of the others used their powers. Farcical.

@sassbott I really don’t think that abuse is rife against fathers in the court system! I’m not saying that it never happens, but the idea that men are gunned for is not true at all. The number of women trying to flee domestic violence, and who still have to give access to dangerous men is heartbreaking. The number of men who get away with extremely low maintenance is very large.

I’m afraid your sentence ‘women refusing to work because of the needs of the children’ is very telling. Why on earth wouldn’t the needs of the children be tantamount! And what is wrong with SAHMs! Jesus wept. Women attacking other women for doing what should be one of the most important jobs out there, bringing up children, is so misogynistic.

[quote Rejoiningperson]@sassbott I really don’t think that abuse is rife against fathers in the court system! I’m not saying that it never happens, but the idea that men are gunned for is not true at all. The number of women trying to flee domestic violence, and who still have to give access to dangerous men is heartbreaking. The number of men who get away with extremely low maintenance is very large.

I’m afraid your sentence ‘women refusing to work because of the needs of the children’ is very telling. Why on earth wouldn’t the needs of the children be tantamount! And what is wrong with SAHMs! Jesus wept. Women attacking other women for doing what should be one of the most important jobs out there, bringing up children, is so misogynistic.[/quote]
Sassbott and I are talking about lived experiences.

There's a lot of shitty men out there and as I man mysl acknowledge that but that's not what we are talking about here.

This is quite specific but its also very real to a group of men that are trying to do the right thing but getting shafted in the process.

@Rejoiningperson here we go! It only takes one mention of the fact that there are some women categorically using the court system to abuse fathers for the DV card to be wheeled out.

Yes I’m fully aware DV happens, that doesn’t preclude the fact that men can also be abused and are habitually done so through the family courts. That’s my personal experience and sadly it’s also the experience of every barrister I have spoken to. Men get a very raw deal.

Re the needs of the children? FFs do you think there are legions of women out there WOHM and not meeting the needs of their children? Wake up, it’s life. Once your kids are in school, have some self respect, stop expecting a man to pay to maintain a ‘lifestyle to which you are accustomed.’ You want a lifestyle, get out, get a job and pay for it.

And to be clear here I am not talking about child maintenance or even basic maintenance to cover living costs. But when an exwife is leading a lifestyle which at no level can be classed as ‘basic’ (far from), at which point does that notion of ‘self respect’ kick in?

And what is wrong with SAHMs! Jesus wept. Women attacking other women for doing what should be one of the most important jobs out there, bringing up children, is so misogynistic

Nothing wrong with sahm.

Issue is it’s an agreement within a couple. One works, on takes on the load of home and children.

When that couple splits, it is generally unreasonable to expect the NRP to continue completely funding the sahm.

You also miss the point that men are capable of bringing up children too. So to enable shared care and an even parental split it the RP is going to have to pick up more financial responsibility if the Nrp is going to pick up their share of raising kids.

I do think it’s unfair on both parties to continue with one solely financially responsible, and one solely responsible for the kids. There needs to be compromise.

I’m not talking dv or abuse, but normal couples who struggle to readjust. Part is women still aren’t picking up the financial load, and conversely men aren’t picking up their share of the parenting lod.

When that couple splits, it is generally unreasonable to expect the NRP to continue completely funding the sahm. There it is again.

NOT funding the SAHM, funding the children!

I’m amazed that parenting still has such low value, and it’s mostly done by women and it’s other women pushing that value down. Sad.

NOT funding the SAHM, funding the children!

Ok, so if the NRP funds the children, who is funding the sahm to sah?

Do benefits really pay enough to enable someone to not work at all?

If we are expecting the NRP to fund their half of the children and pay their own expenses, how does the RP contribute if they don’t work?

@Rejoiningperson and where do you draw the line re funding the children? Vs funding the exwife to stay at home?

And stop being such a drama queen and deliberately baiting the thread into a SAHM vs WOHM debate. Which always leads to a complete bun fight on here. At no point have I (or anyone) even come close to devaluing SAHM’s. You are being deliberately goady.

But at some point a line has be drawn. My exp paid £4K a month to his EXW. Are you trying to tell me that that is a fair amount for any person to be paid if they make the choice (post divorce) to stay home and not work? Fuck me, if any man was paying me £4K tax free a month - I too would pause and give thought about wailing about the ‘needs’ of my children and refusing to work too!

And as you mention the importance of ‘parenting’. Are you somehow alluding that those of us who ‘WOHM’ are not parenting?

I hugely value parenting. I do it fulltime. Even when I’m in paid work. I just also have self respect and want my children to grow up with values of earning your own money vs living off someone else’s hard earned cash.

There is a line that many RP in these situations cross. And the courts enable it, time and again. Why? Because the old school white middle aged male judges have that behaviour entirely normalised and cannot understand why any man would expect the mother of their children to do something as preposterous as work.

Once those retire and the more progressive/ diverse judges come through - then there will start to be a welcome change in the family court system

@sassbott I didn’t raise the issue at all of SAHMs. It was your comment that women refusing to work because of the needs of the children that I took issue with.

It was clearly blaming SAHMs and not just your own experience.

How is your above statement ‘not devaluing SAHMs’?

And if you don’t want a bun fight. Don’t throw buns!!!

Nothing wrong with sahm.

Until it all goes wrong and you're stuffed financially of course.

Issue is it’s an agreement within a couple. One works, on takes on the load of home and children.

When that couple splits, it is generally unreasonable to expect the NRP to continue completely funding the sahm.

The problem here is that the SAHM is likely to have taken a hit in her career, she will earn less and likely be a lot less skilled than when the initial decision was made and not have the same earning potential as the man.

10 years out of the workforce puts her at a big disadvantage.

So on one hand, I would expect the Ex husband to pay spousal support and not just CS.

I personally, am not an advocate of being a SAHM, because you're financially vulnerable and dependent. I don't like the idea of being dependent on a man.

The UK courts are moving with the times and ex wives are expected to work as well, but where they have given up their careers or become a trailing spouse to raise kids, I think it's only right that the courts recognise this.

I don't think she should be his lifelong financially responsibility, but a lot of men are more than happy for her to be a SAHM, without considering the implications in the event of a divorce.

I think that another reason that step mothers might feel a bit of resentment is that they are often blamed for their partners poor behaviour.

Yes! I firmly believe my ex’s ex wife just saw me as guilty by association because of the way my ex was. And to be honest, I think she saw me as more guilty than him because it felt better for her to blame me and have a go at me than him.
She knew exactly what her ex husband was/is like. He’s my ex too; it’s not like me and him had a fairy tale happy ever after while she was the only wronged party. But yet there she was messaging me instead of him.

I’ll be honest, my resentment towards everything was through the roof by the end of the relationship and I had nothing left in me to give as a stepmum. I was done with it all because of the adults involved. Dsc themselves weren’t a problem apart from the fact that they had just reached the teenage years and I felt like it was impossible to meet their demands as well as parent my young children happily.The kindest thing possible for me, my dc and dsc was for me and ex to finally split.

Yes. That wasn’t directed at SAHM’s, it’s directed at women using language (deliberately) within the court system to try and extend maintenance.
If you haven’t been close to these tactics or seen these and far more used, then I’m sorry but you’re naive to think that this (and more lines) aren’t used very deliberately in family courts. Especially where there are fathers in court willing to do 50/50 access. Which would enable the mother to work even more and give the children equal time with both parents. The needs of the children / primary carer line is not only used for maintenance purposes but to block more equitable contact. Because suddenly of a father gets 50/50, maintenance will plummet, as will child support.

Thems the facts. And that is primarily what I was aiming at. So I will continue to throw all the buns in the world on these sorts of debates. Because when I see and hear about how entitled some e wife’s are? They make me thoroughly ashamed of my own sex. We want gender parity? Well that means parity here too.

If I had been a SAHM and found myself divorced, my priority would be going out and reskilling asap. The notion that I / my children’s home/ food is wholly dependant on a man I used to be married to would fill me with anxiety and dread.

Fairy enough @sassbott it does sound like your situation is pretty frustrating!

OP I wonder whether this is some of the root of the difficulties we have as step mums. Just that age old devaluing of women as mother’s. Do you think it is why Exes/Step mums/daughters we all end up having a go at each other? Because we aren’t valued.

I know that I had a better time as a SM and as a ‘mother’ when I conformed to the male world - as in I was earning a good wage and wasn’t as dependent. But inevitably I had to take a hit, like many, my kids just needed someone to parent them and to do it well. After separation I also found that my kids needed me more as I had to be two parents in one. Believe me, I did try and share the childcare, but it was harder on me and the kids than just getting on with it.

As a SM being a SAHM made me in the home more, more central to the household - which made things pretty hellish to be honest!

I had to decide - my kids wellbeing or financial security. It couldn’t be both unfortunately. But it bloody well should be!

@Rejoiningperson
I take personal offense to the notion that a SAHMs add more value in terms of child rearing or household management. I was not a SAHM and yet I managed to meet my children's needs and maintain a well managed household.

I do not denigrate or devalue the contributions of SAHMs , but tbh honest , I do not see that they add or bring to the table anything that working moms cannot and do not bring to the table.

It think that it is a matter of personal choice. It has always been important for me to model the importance of independence and self -sufficiency for my daughter. Personally, I could not have done that had I choose to be a SAHM. It was important to me that my children's life style and life experiences were totally dependent upon their father's financial contributions.

My ex was in a position to provide a good quality of life for us without my needing to work, but in my case, my own sense of self respect and obligation to contribute to my family would not permit me to be a SAHM. I do though think that for others being a SAHM is an acceptable and reasonable choice that comes with a certain amount of financial risk. It assumes that the husband is going to remain committed to following through with your prior agreement even if your marital status changes. In many cases, your ex may be willing to remain committed to your agreements, but it is almost certain that his new partner will discourage him from putting resources into your home that they think should be coming into their home.

New partners rarely care about the integrity of agreements made in prior relationships, and few men or women have enough personal integrity to insist that their word was their bond.

There was a thread on here recently when a step mums partner had lost his job. His ex was a SAHM and it was suggested that the step mum should be paying the maintaintance rather than the mum getting a job, despite the fact that the SM was now the sole earner for her household. I think this entitled attitude could be where some of the tension lies.

I think this is very true, and also have the same thoughts whenever women on here say "my DP adores my kids and I would never be with him if he didn't". The cynic in me can't help but think "well he's not going to be honest about it then is he."

True. In much the same way that SMs aren't honest about it. Although the word 'adore' kind of grates me in any sense tbh, even towards a partner.

OP I wonder whether this is some of the root of the difficulties we have as step mums. Just that age old devaluing of women as mother’s. Do you think it is why Exes/Step mums/daughters we all end up having a go at each other? Because we aren’t valued.

I do think SAHMs are undervalued, but I also think being a SAHM when your kids are in school is just laziness. I know people won't like to hear that, but when your kids are in school, get out and join the workforce. You gain more respect and it's a good example to your kids. I say that, but in situations where you may have a SN child, then I totally understand a return to work may not be possible.

I always saw both my parents working all my childhood, so the SAHM thing was never in my reckoning. I see little point in me going to university or encouraging my DDs to, just to end up being a SAHM. I raised my children and I worked too. It's not impossible to do both.

I think SMs become resentful of the SC when the Ex refuses to work, even when all kids are in school. The feelings for the Ex, because the Ex annoys their DP and he's stressed about the finances...then transfer to dislike for the kids...because if the kids didn't exist...the Ex wouldn't be an issue and they could have had a clean break settlement.

Women staying at home preschool is understandable, but I personally don't understand why as a woman, you would want to be fully financially dependent on a man...and I'm not talking about CS.

I think that another reason that step mothers might feel a bit of resentment is that they are often blamed for their partners poor behaviour.

I think people do wonder "how can you be with a man like him" When it's obvious he's kind of useless.

I do think women (digressing) are blamed from men's behaviour in other areas too.

Example..Meghan Markle is blamed for the strained relationship between William and Harry.

Women are blamed when their serial killer husbands are caught "How could she not know?"

As women, we're held to a higher standard than men, so if you're with a man perceived as a crap dad...you'll get..."How could you...how can you"