Why do so many divorced dads over-compensate re their kids ?

[Thomasina2021]

Myself and two of my close friends in blended families have noticed this.

My dp is sooooo anxious and eager to please his teenage kids , he literally turns into their servant when they stay!

Why is this ?? Anyone know - guilt? I don’t think women do it ! Just men .. it really puts me off him tbh !

Responding to Sassbott

I would also say that its not just men lacking emotion intelligence as toxic exs are often driving the Total Dramarama and hurting / potentially screwing up the kids.

I 100% agree with the above statement. For me (and this is based on a lot of my separated/ divorced male friends), the vast majority of them have an ex whipping up nonsensical drama/ points of conflict that are completely unnecessary and from what I can see are all about exerting a form of control. They seem unable to emotionally separate their adult feelings towards their exh’s from their exh’s right to have an active and full role in their children’s lives. Finances sadly also are part and parcel of some behaviours.

I also fully accept how you feel with regards to you not wanting to spend more time with someone else’s children than you spend with your own.
The question I have for you then is why are you dating someone with children? I’m sure that was a factor with my exp too and I’ve said to him. Find a woman without children. Firstly because of the toxicity of his children / situation and also because it’s not a partners fault his EXW restricts so much contract. I’m near 60/40 with my exh, he calls the children whenever he wants and sees them with complete flexibility. Unless I have plans with them I never say no.

Essentially what you’re telling me is that unless I am prepared to fully embrace a future partners situation (where one key aspect (the EXW) is out of my control) / their children and fully commit to that, I really shouldn’t even bother dating a man with children again.

I mean I don’t plan on it tbh. I think quite a lot of men in these situations are deeply selfish, want their cake and eat it too. And without getting personal on an Internet forum, I think attitudes like yours are why so many women in my situation struggle.
Women like me are basically screwed because the woman our partners married dictate contact. The men feel hard done by. The children get messed up because of the conflict. We say ‘listen your psycho ex your issue, keep this shit away from me.’ And then even though the new partner may have a lovely calm environment, the relationship won’t go anywhere simply because the men can’t get their heads around why someone won’t commit to their ridiculous set up.

I’m never dating again. That’s beyond bonkers.

They only really know them superficially

@YoniAndGuy, 100%. Ex believes he has a good relationship with dc but it's superficial.

Also just be aware of the Karpman triangle, often SMs are initially seen as the rescuer for the nrp who is coping with difficult Ex "the persecutor", nrp being the victim...however the triangle always changes and invariably the SM is ultimately seen as the persecutor. Happens way too frequently.

Yes yes to Karpman!!

So much triangulation - exW/step kids/NRP/new partner. All jostling for position as ‘victim’

Kids tend to see their mums house as home and their dads house as their dads. It’s just the way it is. Obviously not 100% of the time, but it’s no shocking revelation that so many children have had relationships with their fathers, especially after divorce.

however the triangle always changes and invariably the SM is ultimately seen as the persecutor.

This is exactly what happened to me. I went from being the woman who helped him fight through the courts for court ordered contact (fighting allegations), and then when I started to ask for more/ focus on us as a couple and it not be all about the children, I became the problem.

As said up thread, he evidently felt like he had two masters to serve. When I had poured time and energy into his situation he took and took. Then when I asked for some semblance of healthy balance - it was not forthcoming. He was firmly ensconced in poor victim mode. As opposed to realising that he needed to step up and do his bit for the relationship.

@sassbott

I would also say that its not just men lacking emotion intelligence as toxic exs are often driving the Total Dramarama and hurting / potentially screwing up the kids.

I 100% agree with the above statement. For me (and this is based on a lot of my separated/ divorced male friends), the vast majority of them have an ex whipping up nonsensical drama/ points of conflict that are completely unnecessary and from what I can see are all about exerting a form of control. They seem unable to emotionally separate their adult feelings towards their exh’s from their exh’s right to have an active and full role in their children’s lives. Finances sadly also are part and parcel of some behaviours.

I also fully accept how you feel with regards to you not wanting to spend more time with someone else’s children than you spend with your own.
The question I have for you then is why are you dating someone with children? I’m sure that was a factor with my exp too and I’ve said to him. Find a woman without children. Firstly because of the toxicity of his children / situation and also because it’s not a partners fault his EXW restricts so much contract. I’m near 60/40 with my exh, he calls the children whenever he wants and sees them with complete flexibility. Unless I have plans with them I never say no.

Essentially what you’re telling me is that unless I am prepared to fully embrace a future partners situation (where one key aspect (the EXW) is out of my control) / their children and fully commit to that, I really shouldn’t even bother dating a man with children again.

I mean I don’t plan on it tbh. I think quite a lot of men in these situations are deeply selfish, want their cake and eat it too. And without getting personal on an Internet forum, I think attitudes like yours are why so many women in my situation struggle.
Women like me are basically screwed because the woman our partners married dictate contact. The men feel hard done by. The children get messed up because of the conflict. We say ‘listen your psycho ex your issue, keep this shit away from me.’ And then even though the new partner may have a lovely calm environment, the relationship won’t go anywhere simply because the men can’t get their heads around why someone won’t commit to their ridiculous set up.

I’m never dating again. That’s beyond bonkers.

I'm not sure we're on the same page here.

With the person I'm dating. It started in covid when the restrictions were less last Summer. There is about an hour between us and it's been a bit erratic in terms of meeting up due to the current environment.

There is toxicity with the ex. Considering the kids are very good especially my eldest who.has bore the brunt of some of the toxicity (not from my side). They wouldn't be rude etc to new partner as it's not in their nature, not saying they don't have their moments but it wouldn't be the kind of behaviour you have experienced.

I read on these forums about parents with kids meeting up primarily when they don't have them, 'adult time ' I suppose. Partners situation is a bit complicated as she has her son most the time and to be honest it kind of wotks because we are both happy for now at least meeting on a when possible basis.

The broad plan I suppose would be to introduce slowly and it could be years before we consider co-habiting. We may have a place together say a few years down the road and see if we can blend at that point. My eldest and her son would be pretty much adults by then and my youngest about10. I'd probably have my own place in case we ran into issues

Partner could build a relationship in time with kids. The court order would be to get set times so times outside of that would need advanced agreement to minimise the being messed about. This would also help keep the ex issue away from my partner, the ring fencing.

I don't think it's selfish to try and have a relationship as long as you are open about the situation. I'm sure I've seen threads on the relationship forum about meeting once / twice a week on an ongoing basis for years due to various reasons as that works for both parties. I agree that the alternative is finding partner without kids. I don't want kids with a second partner and expect its hard to find someone without kids that would be happy with my situation. Otherwise it's probably a case of waiting until kids are all pretty much grown up which is about 10 years from now when I'm about 50.

I'm genuinely interested to hear what the issue is here (if this is selfish) and what I should be looking to do.

So what you’re saying is that you’re open to seeing your partner when you both can for ‘adult’ time. TBH that’s the best way if it works, introducing children always complicates matter.

I think the key to making anything work is open and honest communication. From what I can see though, you’re open to ‘blending’ when her child is an adult (so she is more available minus a child essentially). However you will not be as your youngest will be 10. So she won’t have childcare responsibilities (how convenient), you however will. If she’s happy to take that on, that’s her choice. Just strikes me as slightly hypocritical that you wouldn’t be prepared to spend more time with her children than you do with yours right now. However (potentially) her son will be grown up and off living his life but she will still be sharing you with your children for another 8 years. I say potentially as I can see you said you will keep your own place Incase of issues. Do you not think that’s slightly self serving/ double standards?

Your comment re how your children will treat a partner is again intensely naive of you. You have no idea how your children will react to your partner. A lot depends on their nature, whether the EXW tries to interfere with bonding, and how susceptible they are to said manipulation. My exp’s children went from open and happy around me to intensely shut down and troubled. The eldest also lied to a childcare professional.

Court orders can give defined contact. However they very rarely help to settle the wider issues. A troublesome ex (who has time and money) will always find a way to create drama.

I genuinely don’t forsee any issues with what you’re trying to do. Your situation is not my exp’s situation. Your partner is not me. I think it was just your comment re not wanting to spend more time with someone else’s children than your own that blew my mind. If someone said that to me early on, I think that would really put me off them. Especially if their situation involved court proceedings to secure contact.

I’d legitimately just think ‘it’s not my issue you don’t have your children 50%. And yet that’s the barometer that sets how much time you spend with me/ mine?’ Basically I’d think that your ex wife’s ability to dictate contact would basically dictate my relationship.

@sassbott

So what you’re saying is that you’re open to seeing your partner when you both can for ‘adult’ time. TBH that’s the best way if it works, introducing children always complicates matter.

I think the key to making anything work is open and honest communication. From what I can see though, you’re open to ‘blending’ when her child is an adult (so she is more available minus a child essentially). However you will not be as your youngest will be 10. So she won’t have childcare responsibilities (how convenient), you however will. If she’s happy to take that on, that’s her choice. Just strikes me as slightly hypocritical that you wouldn’t be prepared to spend more time with her children than you do with yours right now. However (potentially) her son will be grown up and off living his life but she will still be sharing you with your children for another 8 years. I say potentially as I can see you said you will keep your own place Incase of issues. Do you not think that’s slightly self serving/ double standards?

Your comment re how your children will treat a partner is again intensely naive of you. You have no idea how your children will react to your partner. A lot depends on their nature, whether the EXW tries to interfere with bonding, and how susceptible they are to said manipulation. My exp’s children went from open and happy around me to intensely shut down and troubled. The eldest also lied to a childcare professional.

Court orders can give defined contact. However they very rarely help to settle the wider issues. A troublesome ex (who has time and money) will always find a way to create drama.

I genuinely don’t forsee any issues with what you’re trying to do. Your situation is not my exp’s situation. Your partner is not me. I think it was just your comment re not wanting to spend more time with someone else’s children than your own that blew my mind. If someone said that to me early on, I think that would really put me off them. Especially if their situation involved court proceedings to secure contact.

I’d legitimately just think ‘it’s not my issue you don’t have your children 50%. And yet that’s the barometer that sets how much time you spend with me/ mine?’ Basically I’d think that your ex wife’s ability to dictate contact would basically dictate my relationship.

I can't be sure how the kids will react as nobody can but I have an idea. I'm sure there may be some shenanigans but I dont think it would be as you describe (I realise you are basing on your experience and I don't have that experience but obviously neither of us can know this). Regardless if it is as you describe then hence the ring fencing.

On the double standard. She's seen her kid grow up from day one to what will be adulthood. Yes this is my discomfort but what I think in essence we are considering here is can a partner accept that to avoid the perception that would be spun (and Im pretty sure it would) that Dad is spending more time with his new family than his kids / doesnt care about his own kids etc that our time is more limited. As mentioned up thread I personally would struggle with this as well (more than the perception issue).

Yes I can see its a double standard but it is what it is, like being the NRP. Them are the brakes so to speak.

I agree the issue you've identified and I think that's the core issue. Her child is a grown up and we are potentially in a place where due to my situation we cant be together for however many days a fortnight I have my younger kids if we cant blend. Or we are together and she is involved to some extent with my kids. But thats disparity in ages unfortunately and if there wasnt then that wouldnt be an issue. She said shes ok with it. I have my doubts and I think could be our downfall but I can't do anything about that.

No one has a crystal ball, with so many moving parts, it’s impossible to predict what will happen.
I legitimately wish you the best of luck - all I do know is the biggest route to success in these situations is open and honest conversation.

Thanks.

I should add that its complicated her side so even if we could I doubt we would spend a lot of time at hers in next few years.

Honestly I wish there was an easier route / answer!

Hope you find happiness too in whichever future decisions you make :)

Cos they're competing with the mum and want the kids to think they're the best parent.
The amount of kids of divorced parents that I see with large amounts of cash is crazy. After the weekend with Disney Dad.

Yes this is my discomfort but what I think in essence we are considering here is can a partner accept that to avoid the perception that would be spun (and Im pretty sure it would) that Dad is spending more time with his new family than his kids / doesnt care about his own kids etc that our time is more limited. As mentioned up thread I personally would struggle with this as well (more than the perception issue).
@stout01 This is all fine in theory, but what you're essentially saying is that you will not give yourself fully to any relationship where the woman has dc living with her as you are not comfortable with that.
There's a number of issues with this.
Firstly - dc get more independent as they get older (if you're lucky), but they are still there. My eldest is 24 & very independent but ended up back at home for 6 months due to covid. We get on brilliantly but it was hard. Your or your partner's dc getting older does not mean they will never be around and does not mean they'll never need a bed.
Secondly, if you insist on that stance you may miss out on a great relationship. Being around someone else's dc does not have to feel like you're abandoning yours if she's the kind of woman who is perfectly capable of taking care of her own dc. I was & I'm pretty sure @sassbott was, & in truth if you you're with a woman who has a good head on her shoulders then she will not expect you to parent or be overly involved - nor will the dc. The reality is that while you might see her dc more you will probably not spend that much quality time with them on a daily basis. It will be very different to the time you spend with your own dc.
However, if you feel you cannot overcome this then I really think you are better suited to someone who doesn't have or want dc. There's nothing wrong with this & a very good friend of mine took this stance & is now happily married. Your partner may say she's ok with your plan to move forward & she probably is. But her dc will always be her dc & what do you do if years down the line you've 'blended' & he wants to return home for some reason? How would you handle that?
I also think it's very unfair of you to put off blending until her dc is gone but then expect her to 'put up' with your dc. You will put her in exactly the same position you now feel you're in with a possible scenario of her dc feeling uncomfortable as his dm is now 'living with' with your dc. Yes he would be an adult at this point but he may still want to visit for holidays etc. & he will be very aware that you didn't blend until he left home.
This sounds like a lecture but I genuinely don't mean it that way. It's advice from someone who has lived through all aspects of similar scenarios.

The number of times I asked my DP: ‘what are you teaching your children? What are you modelling to them? What do they learn about relationships from your choices? What sort of partners do you want them to become?’. He’d listen, think in silence - and then choose a path of the least resistance anyway. A path that protected him and ‘saved’ his (unhealthy) relationship with his children but never a path that would create a chance a new healthier dynamic for everyone. It was never ‘we’, what’s good for ‘us’ but always ‘I’. It’s not really a partnership is it. What’s upsetting is that he didn’t do it on purpose; he just lived in a total denial of his situation and his choices. I moved from being seen as a rescuer to persecutor. He’s still sees himself as the victim.

Because I always did everything for my son, brought him up, helped him with school work, worked full time myself and made a cosy home for him where he could bring his friends. He could talk to me about anything.
His father was completely chaotic, couldn't do any of that. He went there for christmas once and was given spring rolls and salad and no gifts, my ex still forgets his birthday.
The only thing they enjoyed doing together was going to theme parks because I don't like roller coasters so they did that a few times but now my son is an adult he doesn't really spend any time with him. They have nothing to talk about.

I think this post just highlights how difficult blending is..I doubt anyone understands the challenges when they start a relationship. They assume the obstacles will be overcome but for many people the reality is very different.

@Malena77 - spot on!
I used to think same about exdp & his dc.
They were growing up in an environment where even though mum & dad were divorced mum called all the shots and dad responded.
Mum never worked or met anyone else so her sole focus was the dc. Dad did meet someone else but this was not 'allowed' and was seen as aberrant & unreasonable as ex & dc expected his sole focus to be on them. Work was 'allowed' as that's what they all lived off & so long as dad only went to work & spent time with them then they could all pretend like the divorce hadn't really happened.
Furthermore every interaction between ex & exdp was essentially about money - her wanting more, her wanting to ensure I got none of her pot etc. etc. She & subsequently the dc came to see money as an expression of love - the more they could get out of exh/dad the more he loved them. The exw AND the dc had even started asking him his plans for wills & inheritance.
Dreadfully toxic dynamic, classic triangulation & shocking bad parenting imo.

@Magda72
My eyes have never been so wide open and every solution brings pain. Staying in such relationship for a new partner means agreeing to play the unspoken ‘baddie’ role, while dad plays happy families with his children, pandering to their wishes and wants. This keeps kids and ex happy and the new partner has an allocated slot in his life so the man doesn’t see any problem with such arrangement. The new partner just needs to stay in her slot and not rock the boat; she should behave, show empathy and understanding. In return, she’ll get her happy moments, romantic moments, exciting moments but never a true, fulfilling relationship.
Walking away makes the new partner a ‘baddie’ too. After all, the man tried all he could to accommodate her in his new life. Yes, he did say at the start that he moved on from the divorce and he was ready for a relationship - and he still means it. It’s just that he doesn’t (want to) notice that it’s a relationship that happens when and as it suits him.

H used to do this and it was the root to most of our problems. He’s wised up now thankfully, it was either that or he knew where the door was. It drove me insane.

@Malena77 - that is an amazing accurate summation of exactly how so many of these situations play out.

@Tiredoftattler I agree. I think I am very tolerant of my DPs indulgence of his children. My main problem is that I feel I recognise all these complexities and am understanding of them, but in return he is very judgemental of my parenting - he expects me to uphold standards he doesn’t even attempt without recognising my own challenges (high conflict ex who now lives hundreds of miles away so I do all the parenting) - that’s where my resentment pinch point is. I like his DCs and while I don’t agree with all the parenting choices he makes, I respect they are his to make. But I feel he can be quite hypocritical.

@Techway

I think this post just highlights how difficult blending is..I doubt anyone understands the challenges when they start a relationship. They assume the obstacles will be overcome but for many people the reality is very different.

Highlights why blending is difficult, but not how blending is difficult. The route cause - incompetent Fathers with permissive parenting styles is present whether or not the families blend.

@Magda72 I wonder if it’s mainly when the ex-wife hasn’t got a partner that this is happening

My dp ex still goes to all extended family events , is seen as the true daughter in law by his parents , he and I have to take a back seat at things because of her constant presence

She dictates re the children but because he is so desperate to keep it all amicable he has a real blond spot about it . I honestly think he works harder at their relationship than ours !

She has never had a new partner since they split

Blind spot not blond ))