Why do so many divorced dads over-compensate re their kids ?

[Thomasina2021]

Myself and two of my close friends in blended families have noticed this.

My dp is sooooo anxious and eager to please his teenage kids , he literally turns into their servant when they stay!

Why is this ?? Anyone know - guilt? I don’t think women do it ! Just men .. it really puts me off him tbh !

It’s a really really unattractive trait - I want a strong solid non-needy man like my dad (and ex!). I thought my dp was that until I witnessed this

My DH's dad had this dynamic with his DC, he would lavish them with expensive gifts/holidays etc. He set himself up as the source of income to them I think. Both DH and SIL had for various reasons low income jobs when DH and I first got together.

I remember when DH and I were looking to get a new family car he said oh dad will pay for it. After I scraped my jaw off the floor I told him nope not happening. I am not going to be in a relationship with a man who acts like a ten year old.

In the end DH paid for the deposit and got a loan from his dad but first presented how he was going to repay him and we stuck to the schedule and repaid his dad within a year. SIL was subsequently furious as she felt her dad should buy her an iMac and FIL refused. I think partly on the back of realising his older DC could perfectly well finance their own lives (think eventually he relented and bought it for her).

DH now never asks nor expects expensive things from FIL, he's also taken the grown up step of hosting FIL and his family instead of expecting FIL to always host/buy expensive meals for him. DH enjoys being able to treat his dad for a change.

I think for a long FIL just infantilised his DC and they responded by behaving like kids. SIL still does. She tried to suggest I ask FIL for something expensive as he was in a good mood and had bought her something expensive.

From my observations, I think it does stem for a fear he will lose his older DC, he loves them hugely any idiot can see that but has developed the habit of incentivising visits to him with expensive things. MIL has never been mean about FIL and SMIL is always warm and welcoming when we see them.

DH has only grown up because I refuse to have my life financed by someone else, and given how toxic my own family is I'd rather do everything else possible to earn money before going to my own parents for money. I think living with me has made DH change his own outlook on how he behaves towards his dad.

@Dollyparton3

In our case the ex wife weaponised the children and made DH take her to court for contact. Shortly after he got contact EOW she started the parental alienation.

His eldest adult daughter has been shown that the way to get what you want is to bully, intimidate and manipulate people and now she's an utterly horrible young woman. The way she's spoken to my husband over the years has horrified me on occasion.

Now he's finally stopped the Disney dad stuff and pushed back she's withholding contact just as she has done in the past.

I have no shame in saying our life is much more pleasant when she's ignoring us because she's so high conflict that it's the only reasonable course of action for us

I can understand this Dolly.

I'm two years separated and cant imagine introducing my kids to a partner until my youngest are a bit older (other than perhaps on an occasional basis) as I know it would cause an extra layer of complications /headaches.

I suppose on these threads we can only give our thoughts based on our experiences but there is something of a damned if you do / don't when the ex is toxic in this way.

In my case I think it’s a combination of always taking the easy option and trying to get one over on me.
He always left the grunt work up to me so just carried on. He always fills the time with fun stuff because I make sure all the boring boys get done.
Don’t want to do homework? No worries, play on your Xbox.
Oh mum won’t let you have this, here you go, fill your boots.

@Thomasina2021I hope this is how you link a thread!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/4097858-dp-and-ss

@stout01 maybe it is thrown around on this forum.
But I would hazard a guess that by the time posters post on here, they’re pretty much struggling. You’re not seeing many (any?) of the calm / less toxic situations. This board tends to lean towards the people who are struggling.
Based on my personal (hideous) experience, I have huge amounts of empathy for the people who are struggling with these NRP’s.

@Tiredoftattler makes a very good and pragmatic point. Accept the men for who they are, don’t try and change them and move on if the relationship doesn’t work out. That’s a lovely, logical way to look at things, that completely sidesteps a huge portion of how humans connect and relationship.

I had been with my exp for a year before the children got involved. That’s a lot of commitment, hope, connection and love by the time anyone (with a heart) gets to 12 months.
Then it takes a while longer for the NRP dynamic to really grind away at a relationship. Initially you see it and think, give it time, it will settle. A period of adjustment is needed. I personally thought ‘good lord he can’t possibly maintain this level of EOW intensity forever, it’s borderline obsessive behaviour that leads to intensely myopic thinking/ points of view that are on the whole dysfunctional.’
It was maintained. Then the second part kicks in (which also grinds a partner down). This projection of the ‘special status’ of the children also being recognised by the NRP’s partner. So not only is not good enough that the NRP rolls the red carpet out for their children EOW. The partner (and any resident children MUST also do the same). Followed by wails of ‘but I hardly see my children!’.
Then the kicker. The RP who fundamentally has the NRP’s balls (metaphorically speaking) in the palms of their hands. Control in the NRP’s household is exerted via the child/ children. The NRP becomes fearful of the ex withholding contact/ alienating the children and thus the job of the RP parent is complete.

The tail wags the dog in the NRP’s house. The NRP is complicit in the dysfunction created. The partner (In my case I am completely healthy and boundaried with my exh) becomes painted as villain who has a problems.

These are very insidious and unhealthy dynamics. That exist in a lot of relationships where children pre date the existing relationship.
The only place where I see this dynamic not take place is where all parents and exes co-parent happily and support their co-parent.
Or where the NRP actually grows a pair (again metaphorically speaking), can see what is happening and navigates a path through the dysfunction being created. Crucially this person must be able (from time to time) prioritise their adult intimate relationship, joint resident children (if they exist). Not just live for their EOW contact that is then forced down everyone else’s throats because the HRH’s are visiting.

And to close my point off. By the time people are intertwined in these dynamics. It isn’t as simple as just pragmatically saying ‘oh well, next.’
Children are involved, attachments are formed. There is a degree of commitment and most adults desperately try to make these situations work.
I would say I clung on for 18 months more than I should have done as I felt a huge degree of responsibility that children (on both sides) were involved.
It’s not as simple (from an emotional level) to simply say, ‘I’m out.’

I’ve been out now for a good few months. I still feel intensely sad that it didn’t work out. I still miss him. I cannot contemplate ever entering another relationship. I’m heartbroken over the fact that a vindictive exwife and her exH (who allowed her dysfunction to dominate him), managed to break down what could have been something quite special.

Disney dad phenomenon can be intensely damaging. And NRP’s who operate like this should fundamentally not get into relationships. No partner will ever get their needs met.

I'm sure there are lots of more noble (if misguided) motivations, as mentioned on here already - guilt, feeling of defensiveness and need to prove that you're a 'good' dad, trying to make up for the time you're not with them, etc. But it's silly to pretend that it also doesn't just make life much easier if you give in to everything a child wants - if you're not the one who has to deal with the consequences of that every day. It's like how I found the odd days I spent with my nephew before having my own loads easier than an average day with my toddler of the same age - I always used to take DN somewhere fun and child-centred, never used to tell him off, bought him treats if he asked for them and then I got to hand him back! Establishing boundaries with children is a lot of work and effort for long-term gain and if you aren't the primary caregiver it's easier and nicer for you to just not do it and have a lovely time with them. It sets up a world of problems for the longer-term and doesn't lead to a healthy adult relationship, but in the moment of 'if I just give in they won't tantrum' I can see why that is tempting to ignore.

@ketchupplease yes thanks that linked and omg yes sounds so like my dp !!!

@sassbott wow so well put. My dp is always going on about how well he and exw co-parent and it’s a source of real esteem me pride to him . Like they failed in their relationship but they can still be the best coparents. Which entails exw basically acting like the wife still, attending all his extended family events etc

I nearly did end the relationship on holiday one year where every morning he told his 15 year old dd how amazing she looked - in front of me and my dd of 14. Totally totally weird - literally every day !

[quote sassbott]@stout01 maybe it is thrown around on this forum.
But I would hazard a guess that by the time posters post on here, they’re pretty much struggling. You’re not seeing many (any?) of the calm / less toxic situations. This board tends to lean towards the people who are struggling.
Based on my personal (hideous) experience, I have huge amounts of empathy for the people who are struggling with these NRP’s.

@Tiredoftattler makes a very good and pragmatic point. Accept the men for who they are, don’t try and change them and move on if the relationship doesn’t work out. That’s a lovely, logical way to look at things, that completely sidesteps a huge portion of how humans connect and relationship.

I had been with my exp for a year before the children got involved. That’s a lot of commitment, hope, connection and love by the time anyone (with a heart) gets to 12 months.
Then it takes a while longer for the NRP dynamic to really grind away at a relationship. Initially you see it and think, give it time, it will settle. A period of adjustment is needed. I personally thought ‘good lord he can’t possibly maintain this level of EOW intensity forever, it’s borderline obsessive behaviour that leads to intensely myopic thinking/ points of view that are on the whole dysfunctional.’
It was maintained. Then the second part kicks in (which also grinds a partner down). This projection of the ‘special status’ of the children also being recognised by the NRP’s partner. So not only is not good enough that the NRP rolls the red carpet out for their children EOW. The partner (and any resident children MUST also do the same). Followed by wails of ‘but I hardly see my children!’.
Then the kicker. The RP who fundamentally has the NRP’s balls (metaphorically speaking) in the palms of their hands. Control in the NRP’s household is exerted via the child/ children. The NRP becomes fearful of the ex withholding contact/ alienating the children and thus the job of the RP parent is complete.

The tail wags the dog in the NRP’s house. The NRP is complicit in the dysfunction created. The partner (In my case I am completely healthy and boundaried with my exh) becomes painted as villain who has a problems.

These are very insidious and unhealthy dynamics. That exist in a lot of relationships where children pre date the existing relationship.
The only place where I see this dynamic not take place is where all parents and exes co-parent happily and support their co-parent.
Or where the NRP actually grows a pair (again metaphorically speaking), can see what is happening and navigates a path through the dysfunction being created. Crucially this person must be able (from time to time) prioritise their adult intimate relationship, joint resident children (if they exist). Not just live for their EOW contact that is then forced down everyone else’s throats because the HRH’s are visiting.[/quote]
This maybe your experience but isn't true for all. ExH is a Disney Dad but it's not me exerting pressure or even threatening to withhold contact. I wish he would parent properly and have boundaries for DS, for DS.

I also think it's shitty that NRP gets to prioritise their adult intimate relationships as you put it. As a RP I don't. Although that could depend on what you mean by that. I have experience of what some SM mean and I think it's actually their way of controlling their partner at the expense of the SC. For example a friend was in hospital and her dad wasn't allowed to visit her as it wasn't her weekend.

I think the issue is there is unreasonable expectations and behaviours from all sides at points and we need to be honest with ourselves and accept when we are being unreasonable. For example it really irritated me that I had to pay for the petrol for DP wanting to take his DS to get his results when DSS's mum was at home sitting on her arse. I was unreasonable at being pissed off at the fact he wanted to do something for his DS (his mum doesn't really factor, yes she was lazy but actually DP wanted to take his DS regardless of that fact), not at the fact he hadn't sorted out his own petrol.

Guilt .. usually because the kids stay with their mums and dads 'leave ' ..

"dad guilt" and "Disney parenting" is really common imo- especially when Dads don't do 50/50.

My ex is a Disney parent. Kids do no chores like picking up after themselves when with him, he never tells them off etc I suspect he thinks the kids will stop seeing him and wants to have a nice time while with them but they are old enough to remember him being a normal dad and having rules and chores etc

Its not just dads though. I'm the NRP, and mum. My exh expects me to be taking the kids here there and everywhere, pre covid, when I have them. I'm hounded for more money, I pay regular maintenance and he takes every opportunity to criticise my parenting. Fortunately our boys, now 13 and 9, aren't oblivious to their fathers behaviour and we all just try to get on and ignore him when he's being unreasonable.
Maybe it's the feeling, as a NRP, of the total lack of control you have. He makes lots of decisions without discussing it with me, dictates Xmas contact regardless of the kids wishes etc. I imagine there is an element of guilt too. I try to take my kids on day trips and do things with them because I want to but they understand its not always possible.

My dad is like this too, and he and my mum only split when I was 24! I think it's because he wants to make us happy, and also wants to make us want to visit him. It's sad really. He is so eager to please. Always bringing us things in lockdown like cakes he's made etc. Always texting to see how we are (multiple times a day). Sometimes I actually get a bit weary of it, but I know he means well, and I think he's just trying to stay connected.

@LindaEllen

My dad is like this too, and he and my mum only split when I was 24! I think it's because he wants to make us happy, and also wants to make us want to visit him. It's sad really. He is so eager to please. Always bringing us things in lockdown like cakes he's made etc. Always texting to see how we are (multiple times a day). Sometimes I actually get a bit weary of it, but I know he means well, and I think he's just trying to stay connected.

Ah this made me sad to read . (

@LindaEllen does he have a partner ?

@sassbott

And to close my point off. By the time people are intertwined in these dynamics. It isn’t as simple as just pragmatically saying ‘oh well, next.’ Children are involved, attachments are formed. There is a degree of commitment and most adults desperately try to make these situations work. I would say I clung on for 18 months more than I should have done as I felt a huge degree of responsibility that children (on both sides) were involved. It’s not as simple (from an emotional level) to simply say, ‘I’m out.’

I’ve been out now for a good few months. I still feel intensely sad that it didn’t work out. I still miss him. I cannot contemplate ever entering another relationship. I’m heartbroken over the fact that a vindictive exwife and her exH (who allowed her dysfunction to dominate him), managed to break down what could have been something quite special.

Disney dad phenomenon can be intensely damaging. And NRP’s who operate like this should fundamentally not get into relationships. No partner will ever get their needs met.

This is well written and points well made. There are two things I struggle with.

1. The whole NRP. needs to grow a pair comments. I thankfully have only been in this situatin to a limited extent as no new partner has met kids etc. Even with a court order I can't imagine it's going to be sweetness and light (I'm currently going for a contact access order). It does seem like Dad's in this situation are stuck in a no win place where they are unsuccessful my trying to serve two masters.

1. I have my eldest more than the others,he has done home schooling and does his extra work / homework and knows he needs to do.this before any fun time -e.g computers, tv or going out to play. This is a routine and there are clear boundaries.missed homework means a computer ban etc. It's far harder to put that in place when you are having kids for day or two at weekend.

I agree that it probably is best for Dads in these situations to avoid a blended family or have relationships and keep kids separate, which is what I do at present. There's no easy answers here

@Thomasina2021 - when I met him his dd was 16 & he had been separated from the dm for 10 years (never married). It became apparent a few months in that he would never control contact; that contact was & would be controlled by the dd & the ex.
For eg the dd would go weeks without seeing him (her choice, she has stuff on with friends etc.) but then would want to see him three weekends in a row. Even if we had plans he'd say yes & cancel on me. However if dd cancelled on him I'd get a message saying he was free & expecting me to row in.

When I would try to point out the unfairness of this I got the "it's ok for you you see your dc all the time & you're being unreasonable" line so I walked away.
He was also spending vast amounts of money on her. Fine - his choice - but she quite literally got everything she wanted no matter the expense which I honestly didn't think boded well for the future.
In this case the issues were quite apparent from the start, but in my last relationship I was further in before things reared their ugly head.

@Magda72 yes that’s the thing, it isn’t always apparent early on !

Fortunately we don’t live together and I won’t while we have children living at home . I don’t think we would be together still if we had all moved into one house tbh

& @stout01 - in my last relationship there was definitely an element of what you describe. If my exdp 'gave out' to his dc he would quickly get a call saying they'd come home in tears (we're talking teenagers here) & he was an awful father. So I do understand what you're saying here. This all goes back to my second point of a certain type of ex constantly manipulating the situation.
In this case she would sound off & bad mouth my partner so the dc would then come to him in a bad mood. He would spend the weekend either jollying them along (giving into their moods) or trying to get to the root of what was going on by talking gently but firmly to them. If he did the former they went home all happy with new stuff & trips to the movies & dinners out. If he did the latter they went home & whinged to mum. They were totally playing exdp.
Either way she would then get on the phone to complain that he should be giving her more money as she wanted to treat the dc too, or that he was an awful dad & being mean to his dc.
In many ways he couldn't win but his biggest downfall is that honestly he didn't have the emotional language to talk through all this properly with the dc. He did eventually go to therapy which helped him greatly in this respect as the therapist helped him to talk about feelings etc. as opposed to just reacting to everything. However, by the time he had gotten better & more confident in his communication skills it was sort of too late. His dc were almost 20, 17 & 14 & had all become quite skilful manipulators. The funny thing was it was the eldest who was the worst at this point & he would turn on having MH issues as a result of his parents divorce any time he was denied money/computer etc., but amazingly was in great form whenever he got what he wanted.

I would say a lot of men don't intend to Disney Day but they get backed into corners (by exes & dc) that they don't seem to be able to get themselves out of, something which subsequent partners find very frustrating.
From my pov I also had three teens but their behaviour was always tackled cohesively between me & my exh - & his dw if she needed to be involved. Our dc were given no room to manipulate & the adults in question had no interest in using the dc as tools for manipulation.
It is human nature to strive to get what we want & (most) children when let, will try to work any situation to suit their best advantage. Unfortunately a lot of divorced parents fall into the trap of believing that giving in to bad behaviour & not rocking the boat with exes will negate the effects of divorce when in fact nothing could be farther from the truth.

@Thomasina2021 not wanting to get all Freudian or anything but you do see on here a lot that women have instances of sd's acting like mini wives towards their partners (the sd's dad) & the men in question going along with this & not seeing the toxicity in the dynamic.
I'm not entirely sure what this is about but it does seem to be a 'thing'.

I wish. The father of my DC doesn't give a shit and saw divorced as an excellent way to shirk all responsibilities.

@sassbott
It is never easy to end a relationship or marriage and yet it happens around the world on a daily basis. More than 50% of marriages end in divorce. So we know that people not only have the capacity to end relationships but that they do it with great frequency. That does not mean that there is not pain and hurt in making those decisions and taking those actions.
It is absurd to suggest that when you discover incompatibility in a significant area that you should stay because you have invested time and emotion in the relationship. Your partner might not have struck you or your children until 3 years into the relationship. Would you suggest that the fact that you love him or that you have a 3 year emotional investment is a reason to stay and wait for the next blow?

There is no timeline on discovery. You can only deal with problems as you become aware of them. The fact that it may be emotionally difficult to take the appropriate steps is no excuse or justification for not doing so. That is not me being heartless; that would be me protecting both my heart and mental well-being.

Staying for love and saying " I did not know that he was like that or it will be too difficult to leave" is the mentality that keeps women in abusive relationships for years. They come up with endless excuses or explanations as to why they must stay and continue to suffer abuse. If the ability to recognize an incompatible situation and take appropriate steps to remove yourself is heartless then many women should pray for the strength to be heartless.

[quote Magda72]@Thomasina2021 not wanting to get all Freudian or anything but you do see on here a lot that women have instances of sd's acting like mini wives towards their partners (the sd's dad) & the men in question going along with this & not seeing the toxicity in the dynamic.
I'm not entirely sure what this is about but it does seem to be a 'thing'.[/quote]
Yes but how on earth would you ever broach it without sounding like the toxic one ?

@Magda72 I do feel a lot of it comes from the ex. For eg on that holiday It transpired the ex had been texting dp to make sure he didn’t ignore sd in favour of me...

Or when we got engaged , exw reaction to dp was ‘sd will think you are going to move away’ which is the absolute opposite to how sd was (just really excited !)