Holidays

[harryclr]

DP and I have argued a few times now about holidays.

We have a 7month old and he has a 5yr old DD from a previous relationship. I have expressed that whilst our baby is still young I'd like to go on a couple of more grown up breaks before he gets too old and our holidays have completely changed and are 100% revolved around children. Due to Covid we missed out on our baby moon and my birthday trip to Lisbon.

Is this selfish of me? I just think it would be nice to have time just us and our baby, as he doesn't speak or walk or have wants we are still able to go on a city break for example where he can be in the pram etc. A 5 year old needs constant entertaining and attention and the holiday completely changes. We can also be more intimate and affectionate and have more interesting/adult conversation when a 5yr old isn't around.

Does anyone think it's unreasonable of me?

He called me selfish and 'evil' and insists I want to leave his DD out and exclude her. He gets instantly defensive whenever I suggest anything, almost anything at all without her. He even went as far as to tell me where to go if I don't like it...I never said I never want to go on a family holiday, I am merely saying we have the opportunity at the moment to do a couple of different trips before our holidays are water parks, zoos and chips!

Is it selfish and unfair to just ask for some balance and compromise in this blended family?

I would only ever suggest to go away when DD is at her mums also, she is also at school.

Thanks x

My DD's father has not taken her on holiday once in the 8 years since he left and in normal times they go abroad with their child every year for a week. It would have been nice for DD if they had taken DD abroad with them as she got older, but I wouldn't expect them to take her on every weekend break etc.

It is nice of your DP to want to include his daughter, when so many fathers just forget about their children, however you could have a long weekend, Fri-Mon or something like that and then your DSD couldn't go because she would be at school, and if it's not a fun holiday to her then she wouldn't be missing out on much.

Don't berate him for wanting to treat his first DD well though, as if you and he split up, you would be wanting him to treat your DD the same as the others.

*I think that a great proportion of the problems on this board might be avoided if separated parents (and certain others) stopped expecting new partners to simply slot into the vacancy left by the former spouse/DP.

My compromise in being with a man who already has DC is knowing that he’ll always put them first over me when appropriate. My DH’s compromise is to understand that he has a new family dynamic now, not one where he recreates what he had with his ex only with a different woman. He also needs to recognise that as Not Their Parent I’ll have less inclination than either himself or their mother to sacrifice my wants by default against those of his children, so he’d better make sure our relationship is bloody good in other ways to make those constant sacrifices worth my while.

“If they were your own DC” is as irrelevant as if his parents were my parents or his siblings were my siblings. I appreciate the DCs don’t get a choice so it’s absolutely my duty to treat them with love, kindness and fairness regardless of my personal feelings towards them. They are my family. But they are NOT my children. All the “ifs” in the world doesn’t negate the fact that I’m entitled to make decisions that reflect that reality. It’s my job to state my wants and their dad’s job to balance that against the wants of his children. If he can’t achieve that balance then the whole relationship needs reconsidering, the solution isn’t to place the blame at step mum’s feet for not loving someone else’s children as if they were biologically hers whilst simultaneously having no authority or control over their upbringing.*

So well said and something I've been trying to get across for some time!

"You knew what you were getting into" cuts both ways.

Tattler's argument always seems to be that because the man is two kids down, it's reasonable for him to generally neglect OPs needs/feelings as though they had been married 20 years and raised kids together all that time. But this man has two YOUNG children, so is not yet at the stage in life where both parties are generally ok with that decline in their personal relationship (if they ever would be, as I'm fairly sure not being interested in making time for one another is a pretty common cause for divorce even later in a relationship), and has decided to get into a NEW relationship. He shouldn't expect to be able to just rest on his laurels and not behave accordingly. He's chosen to have a first child with that person, and he should expect to have to put in the amount of emotional effort and support for that person that reflects that reality. He should expect time with his DD to not bring her the same joy or respite it does him, and to have to find other ways of making that up to her, his non contact time being the most obvious time to do so.

She is not the only person that knew what she was getting into.

Bloody bold fail @MyCatHatesEverybody, but I couldn't agree more with your comment!

Maybe the child gets a one on one holiday or holidays with her mother though...

These threads are always from the POV that the SM’s blended family is the only family the SC have. The mother has no financial responsibility. The holidays and day trips she takes them on don’t count. Indeed, if anyone mentions it, then it’s seen as only right that the SC get all the fun everywhere. And all the financial support. Any children that live FT in the blended family are just supposed to suck it up. There can be no holiday with just their parents. No day trips just for them. And so on and so on. After all they have the privilege of living with both parents. And, you know, the SC came first. So they must be everyone’s priority. Even their half sibling’s mother.

My DS1 had the most amazing holidays with his dad (when he was a child). He’d be going to Japan etc. He wasn’t going to be jealous if he was left out of a bucket and spade holiday with his stepdad.

Further to the point about inheritance and pressure.
I tied myself in knots trying to include DSD when I was writing the Eulogy for my stillborn DS2 last year. I could imagine the squaks of certain posters if I failed to do so.
In the end, I didn’t mention her. It was about me and my son above all others.

Some things just show in sharp relief that the step kids aren’t yours. She’s not equal in my will either, just some bits of diamond jewellery.

She is not the only person that knew what she was getting into.

Arguably, he is the only one that knew what he was getting into at all. Certainly if his new partner is childless. After all, he knows what his DC are actually like. And his ex.

He’s unlikely to have shared the full horror of anything at the dating stage. Because no one is going to even try to start a relationship if he started with ‘I’m actually looking for a stand in mother to do all the boring parenting stuff while I swan in occasionally and bestow gifts and fun, and then leave you with the clean up. You will always come last in the pecking order, behind me and my children. And I’ll regularly complain that you haven’t devoted your entire life to the service of my progeny with my ex. Oh and I don’t want to discipline them while they’re here - so you can just accept whatever behaviour I allow. My feelings about being superdad are much more important than you’.

"In which case, wouldn’t it be useful for DC to learn the world doesn’t revolve around them and their wants?"

I think children whose parents have divorced are very aware of this to be honest. I don't think this is a lesson that has to be really firmly impressed for such children. If I were a parent in this situation I would be more concerned about the DC drawing the opposite conclusion, that their needs and wants are not important, and guarding against that.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@harryclr

My children were just turned 1 and 5, and DP’s were 6 & 10. We’ve been together 5.5 years now.
We have no children together and do not intend to.

We’re engaged but not married yet as our wedding has had to be postponed due to covid.

We own a house together and are joint owners... that means if either partner dies the other automatically gets the house and we also have an insurance clause in the mortgage which means the house is paid off in the event of one our deaths.

I’m not worried about if I die before him to be honest with regards to my kids inheriting as my DP is considerably older than me and I am considerably wealthier than him (family money, separate assets etc).

I paid for the house deposit. He had nothing when I met him. He has a great paying job but until I took control of finances as he was in terrible debt.

Due to this he puts double into the joint account that I do every month.

Because of this if he was to die in the next 10 years or so I would not give my SCs a penny in the event of his death. They effectively have no inheritance, their dad hasn’t contributed enough for it to count IYSWIM.

If we (luckily) grow old together and for example die within a similar time frame then all 4 kids (my DCs and SCs) will inherit equally from our house and joint assets. My SCs will not inherit anything from my separate assets.

If I significantly outlive my DP then I will have to take a view on what amount of inheritance I choose to leave my SCs.

They will not inherit anything from my wider family.

Hope that helps x[/quote]
"Because of this if he was to die in the next 10 years or so I would not give my SCs a penny in the event of his death"

Have you made this clear to him? If I were him, I would want to know this so I could put something in place to protect and provide for my bereaved DC.

@KumquatSalad Yes, I would agree with that also. I've often thought it's a bit ridiculous that people say to a childless step parent that they should have expected x y and z when they got together with someone with kids. Most things to do with having kids are not that often discussed or evident outside of the circles of people with kids. Certainly not any of the "blended family" elements, unless you happen to know somebody in that position.

The main thing I expected was to have to learn how to play with Lego. The other person has much more of an insight.

@Youseethethingis

Further to the point about inheritance and pressure. I tied myself in knots trying to include DSD when I was writing the Eulogy for my stillborn DS2 last year. I could imagine the squaks of certain posters if I failed to do so. In the end, I didn’t mention her. It was about me and my son above all others. Some things just show in sharp relief that the step kids aren’t yours. She’s not equal in my will either, just some bits of diamond jewellery.

This is the thing. For all the crap levelled at ‘evil SMs’, often what you’ve got is a grieving woman tying herself in knots because she feels guilty in mourning her child.

It’s an extreme case (and I’m so sorry you went through that). But smaller scale and less important examples of the same thing happen all the time. A lot of being a SM is a slow process of coming to terms with the whole world thinking your SC matter more than you or your children.

Have you made this clear to him? If I were him, I would want to know this so I could put something in place to protect and provide for my bereaved DC.

But he doesn’t have the means to do so. The PP has been subsidising and bailing him out for years.

That’s why his children won’t have an inheritance. The PP us just making sure her DC aren’t disadvantaged because she has had a relationship with him.

I think children whose parents have divorced are very aware of this to be honest. I don't think this is a lesson that has to be really firmly impressed for such children. If I were a parent in this situation I would be more concerned about the DC drawing the opposite conclusion, that their needs and wants are not important, and guarding against that.

Well my SS is very firmly of the belief that the world revolves around him. This is noted by his peers, and comes as a result of the exact overcompensation you are suggesting.

It's obviously a decision to be made whether you think that is worth it as a consequence of trying hard to ensure they know their needs are still important despite their parents separation. But the idea that SC are all hard done by kids that feel insecure and unimportant is a myth. People have been reinforcing the idea of my SS being "The Most Important" so much during his life that that is basically his entire identity.

@LaraLuce

"In which case, wouldn’t it be useful for DC to learn the world doesn’t revolve around them and their wants?"

I think children whose parents have divorced are very aware of this to be honest. I don't think this is a lesson that has to be really firmly impressed for such children. If I were a parent in this situation I would be more concerned about the DC drawing the opposite conclusion, that their needs and wants are not important, and guarding against that.

I’m not sure I agree.

They might not be able to make their parents get back together. But very often they live a charmed life of fun and excitement any time they’re not in school. No one makes them go to the supermarket etc. All the boring stuff gets done when they’re not there.

Instead they arrive, get to decide what everyone eats, what everyone is doing, what is on tv and so on. Anything else would be unfair as they’re not always there.

Over time you end up with petty tyrants who feel put out if they don’t get what they want all the time. Who throw a strop because their SM, for example, didn’t let them decide what colour she could paint the living room.

Not all SC obviously. But that’s what Disney parenting leads to, ultimately.

Because you see the whole world guarding against you ever feeling like you’re not the most important is not good for anyone.

Perhaps, or perhaps the misbehaviour is coming from a place of pain and loss.

He should expect time with his DD to not bring her the same joy or respite it does him

Exactly that @asofanearyou , but instead of accepting this reality they think the blame/solution lies in acting like it's their partner's fault for not having the same feelings as themselves despite it being utterly unrealistic.

There's literally no other situation I can think of outside of step parenting where such an expectation would be placed upon someone to treat an unrelated person that they have no agency over as their own flesh and blood. Who the fuck are they to tell me how I "ought" to feel about something so fundamental? What does it say about the strength of bond between parent and child if the expectation is that it can and should be recreated just like that for what is ultimately the parents' benefit? It conveniently ignores the fact the the DCs themselves let alone their other parent are unlikely to welcome such a forced relationship. It's cloud cuckoo land bullshit peddled by those for whom such a situation would make their own lives easier. It's also incompatible with the pick and choose crap that always accompanies such entitlement - "You WILL love them like your own but HOW DARE YOU upset them by asking them to put their plate in the dishwasher!"

And from feelings of instability and insecurity.

@LaraLuce

Perhaps, or perhaps the misbehaviour is coming from a place of pain and loss.

Given my DSC cannot remember their parents being together, that sense of loss could only come from everyone around them acting like they’re made of glass because their parents split up. It’s all they’ve ever known.

I d

I don't think that would necessarily stop them feeling a sense of loss or wishing their parents were together. They see other children with parents together, they can imagine how that would have felt, how their lives might have been different.

Do you know, I was a child of divorce. I even had a step grandfather (my mum’s dad died during her childhood).

I’m still not buying this compensating children for the aching sense of loss at the core of their being stuff.

And the best way to create a sense of instability for a child is to make them the centre of the universe, given them no boundaries and show them that some adults just don’t matter so you don’t have to do what they ask.

Situations where a child is well aware that dad expects SM to act like they are the most important thing in the world but will berate her because she had the temerity to ask them to put a plate in the dishwasher are exactly the sort of thing that create senses of insecurity. Even worse when they know they can whine to mum and she’ll kick off too. There’s no sense of boundaries or adult-child roles.

That’s what screws kids up.

@LaraLuce
Have you made this clear to him? If I were him, I would want to know this so I could put something in place to protect and provide for my bereaved DC
Yes he knows, it’s my money... how could he not? They also have another parent who can provide for them, it’s not my place to.

My DP living with me saves him money because there are now 2 of us to share the living expenses. We also both put money into a savings account to pay for larger household expenses e.g. saving to buy a new sofa or for a family holiday.
Perhaps if he died I would give half of that savings pot to his children - but it wouldn’t be a lot, we only keep around £2k in the joint savings account so they’d get about £1k.

It’s not my place to provide for them in the even of his death. I have life insurance policies and other assets to leave my DC, DP has a life insurance policy and pension but I’m not sure who the beneficiary is... could be me, could be his kids... I haven’t asked because I’m not really bothered to be honest.

@KumquatSalad
Over time you end up with petty tyrants who feel put out if they don’t get what they want all the time. Who throw a strop because their SM, for example, didn’t let them decide what colour she could paint the living room

Did you lift this scenario from one my previous threads... this actually happened to me!

@LaraLuce Yes, that is the most common defence dished out on here. But when you watch a situation unfold you can apply a certain level of common sense to detect the cause and effect.

My step son believing the world revolves around him doesnt really materialise as him misbehaving or acting out. Whatever feelings he has about his parents being separated, this isn't when they show themselves.

He cannot cope with conversation that isn't about him or games that aren't initiated by him. Not surprising, as he is never expected to. He has it impressed upon him how much everybody misses him all the time, a positive thing in itself, but it is very clear that it has gone to his head from the way he acts around it. There are countless little things, like him being unable to be interested in something without someone in his family lying to him and making up some special connection he alone has to them, usually that they're related. Santa Claus was the most recent example. As a result, his default way of trying to relate to people is to impress upon them that he is in fact more special and connected to any given thing than they are. Due to his age (and general disinterest in the thoughts and feelings of others) he is oblivious to how poorly people respond to it.

The thing is, it didn't start as unconnected to his "pain and loss". People were so worried he would feel "different" as a result of his parents not being together, they opted for teaching him that not only was he different, he was "extra special". He was only 2 at the time at it has shaped his entire psyche. I would argue that the better thing to do would have been to try and teach him that lots of kids have separated parents so he doesn't need to feel different. As it is, he struggles to make friends and watching him with other kids it's not hard to see why.

But very often they live a charmed life of fun and excitement any time they’re not in school. No one makes them go to the supermarket etc. All the boring stuff gets done when they’re not there. Instead they arrive, get to decide what everyone eats, what everyone is doing, what is on tv and so on. Anything else would be unfair as they’re not always there.

This 100% sums up my DSC's life with us for the first few years after their parents separated. Through no fault of their own it was incredibly stressful being around them. Gradually this approach was phased out and they are all fantastic young adults.

Perhaps, or perhaps the misbehaviour is coming from a place of pain and loss.

I understand that many children would prefer to have their parents together, and they may well experience feelings of pain and loss. But the reality for many children living between two homes is that their new life hasn't replaced a happy and harmonious nuclear family life, they are facing a different set of challenges now but not necessarily worse than before, perhaps better even. Treating them like demigods instead of balancing the needs of everyone in the family is not the way to go IMO.

My DSCs had desperately unhappy parents who were increasingly avoiding each other until finally, their mum had an affair and left. There are a great many children living in less than perfect nuclear family dynamics where they also feel pain but it would be crazy to suggest that the solution is to overcompensate with treats and abandon virtually all discipline and boundaries.