Holidays

[harryclr]

DP and I have argued a few times now about holidays.

We have a 7month old and he has a 5yr old DD from a previous relationship. I have expressed that whilst our baby is still young I'd like to go on a couple of more grown up breaks before he gets too old and our holidays have completely changed and are 100% revolved around children. Due to Covid we missed out on our baby moon and my birthday trip to Lisbon.

Is this selfish of me? I just think it would be nice to have time just us and our baby, as he doesn't speak or walk or have wants we are still able to go on a city break for example where he can be in the pram etc. A 5 year old needs constant entertaining and attention and the holiday completely changes. We can also be more intimate and affectionate and have more interesting/adult conversation when a 5yr old isn't around.

Does anyone think it's unreasonable of me?

He called me selfish and 'evil' and insists I want to leave his DD out and exclude her. He gets instantly defensive whenever I suggest anything, almost anything at all without her. He even went as far as to tell me where to go if I don't like it...I never said I never want to go on a family holiday, I am merely saying we have the opportunity at the moment to do a couple of different trips before our holidays are water parks, zoos and chips!

Is it selfish and unfair to just ask for some balance and compromise in this blended family?

I would only ever suggest to go away when DD is at her mums also, she is also at school.

Thanks x

I t

But I don't think what the OP'sDP is suggesting is overcompensating, is it? Simply to include the child in a family holiday rather than exclude her.

I'm reminded of what they say in the adoption process, something like - this was nobody's first choice, not the child, not the parents.

Simply to include the child in a family holiday rather than exclude her

But it’s not a “family holiday”, it’s a few days away on a city break which will be entirely adult centric with a baby who will likely take several naps a day and sleep through the night either in a pushchair or a bed in an apartment/hotel.

It’s not a trip to the seaside or Disneyland

Taking a 5 year old on the trip will completely ruin change the dynamics of the trip, thus making it not what the OP had wanted in the first place.

How is it similar to adoption... You have PR if you adopt.

@Pleaseaddcaffine also if you adopt there is no one else filling that role as mother. You are agreeing to be the child’s mother... you are not doing this by dating/marrying someone who has a child.

I think I may start using the term “step aunt” because essentially that’s my role. I’m more of the fun aunt, I’m definitely nowhere close to being their mum and nor do I want to simply because I have sex with their dad.

@SpongebobNoPants

Simply to include the child in a family holiday rather than exclude her

But it’s not a “family holiday”, it’s a few days away on a city break which will be entirely adult centric with a baby who will likely take several naps a day and sleep through the night either in a pushchair or a bed in an apartment/hotel.

It’s not a trip to the seaside or Disneyland

Taking a 5 year old on the trip will completely ruin change the dynamics of the trip, thus making it not what the OP had wanted in the first place.

How would it feel, to be that 5 year old, who is unwanted within that family experience, whose very presence would 'ruin' it? Whereas the other child of the family is welcome?

How would it feel, to be that 5 year old, who is unwanted within that family experience, whose very presence would 'ruin' it? Whereas the other child of the family is welcome?

I’ll repeat what I said earlier... why does the child even need to know? If the short trip took place when the child is with her mother she has no reason to be informed.
It seems like some people want there to be an issue for the 5yo which is totally avoidable.

I don’t tell my SCs what we get up to all the time when they’re not here.

And stop making the “ruin” thing about the SC... it’s about her age. It’s not difficult to comprehend that a baby confined to a pushchair who will likely nap for significant portions of the day will impact less on the grown up time between the adults.
Also looking after a SC is considerably harder than looking after your own biological child. The trip is so the op can have a break and relax, this won’t happen if the 5yo is there.

It’s really not difficult to understand

@Pleaseaddcaffine

How is it similar to adoption... You have PR if you adopt.

I'm not saying it is equal to an adoption, I'm saying that it might be good to recognise that the blended family is not the first choice for anyone and that everyone starts with a sense of that. The parent has lost their first marriage and family unit, would presumably have preferred to raise their DC within in a happy relationship, the DC would also have preferred that, in many cases the step parent would prefer the SC did not exist. Everyone is hurting and compromising and the DC have no choice and agency in what has happened. I think it's unwise to think they are experiencing a ' charmed life'.

@SpongebobNoPants

How would it feel, to be that 5 year old, who is unwanted within that family experience, whose very presence would 'ruin' it? Whereas the other child of the family is welcome?

I’ll repeat what I said earlier... why does the child even need to know? If the short trip took place when the child is with her mother she has no reason to be informed.
It seems like some people want there to be an issue for the 5yo which is totally avoidable.

I don’t tell my SCs what we get up to all the time when they’re not here.

And stop making the “ruin” thing about the SC... it’s about her age. It’s not difficult to comprehend that a baby confined to a pushchair who will likely nap for significant portions of the day will impact less on the grown up time between the adults.
Also looking after a SC is considerably harder than looking after your own biological child. The trip is so the op can have a break and relax, this won’t happen if the 5yo is there.

It’s really not difficult to understand

I don't think the 5 year old would understand it in that way. If you think she shouldn't be told, then you must realise that it would be hurtful.

Your DH is unreasonable for calling you evil, but he's not unreasonable to not want to go on holiday without both his children.

How would it feel, to be that 5 year old, who is unwanted within that family experience, whose very presence would 'ruin' it? Whereas the other child of the family is welcome

They're not going to have to go on any "baby centric" activities on a holiday, the way they would have to do with a 5 year old. The baby is just going to go where the adults take them, possibly add a bit of stress by crying etc but generally speaking, not affect the actual nature of the trip.

The 5 year old herself never has to know about the trip (honestly what 5 year old asks what their dad and SM have been up to?) and the adults like OPs partner should be perfectly capable of understanding the difference between taking a baby and a 5 year old with them without resorting to calling her evil.

Everyone is hurting

You can’t possibly know this, my kids certainly aren’t “hurting”... probably because I didn’t treat my kids as if they were disadvantaged by the split or tip toe around it.

If splits are conducted in a mature way and the children are parented in a healthy manner (I.e no Disney parenting) afterwards then there’s no need for the children to be hurting.

I think assuming the kids are terribly disadvantaged or upset often causes more harm than good.

I don't think the 5 year old would understand it in that way. If you think she shouldn't be told, then you must realise that it would be hurtful.

No, we realise that it could be falsely perceived as hurtful by a 5 year old, which is very easily remedied by simply not mentioning it to her.

You love your baby best.
Your DH loves his two children equally. Exactly the same. Forever and ever. And good for him! Get used to it.

@LaraLuce If you think she shouldn't be told, then you must realise that it would be hurtful

No I think children are naturally prone to jealousy. Why try to cause an issue when there doesn’t need to be

By your logic the SM should inform the SD every time her, DP and the baby do anything fun with the baby when SD is at her mums.
Should they not go to soft play areas, swimming, nice days out unless SD is prior informed or invited?

You love your baby best.
Your DH loves his two children equally. Exactly the same. Forever and ever. And good for him! Get used to it

Weirdest Hallmark card ever.

@ASofaNearYou
My point is that the decline may very well be in their personal relationship, and as problematic as that is it is not a problem caused by his wanting to take his daughter on vacation with them. It is not a child related problem at all.

If the partner's attraction to or interest in the OP or their relationship has decided or waned, that is an issue to be addressed as the issue that it is. I have yet to see an OP ever suggest that the reason the partner is not interested in a vacation or time alone is because he does not feel a need or desire to spend any additional alone time with the OP. Almost universally, the blame is directed at the existence of his other children, rarely is it considered that the partner may actively prefer time spent with his collective children to time spent with his partner.

The focus should be on why one partner no longer has a need or desire to make time to spend with the other partner? That would remove the focus from the children and place the focus on the relationship between the partners. The proverbial bloom or spark may no longer be on the relationship and that may be the issue that needs fixing. Forcing a reluctant partner to vacation with you on your terms is simply trying to whitewash the real relationship problems. You cannot fantasize a relationship into being that which it is not.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@KumquatSalad
Over time you end up with petty tyrants who feel put out if they don’t get what they want all the time. Who throw a strop because their SM, for example, didn’t let them decide what colour she could paint the living room

Did you lift this scenario from one my previous threads... this actually happened to me![/quote]
I remembered it from an actual thread and thought it was a remarkable example of unreasonable expectations in an SC who has been set up to fundamentally believe they are the centre of the universe.

It sounds far fetched but it did actually happen to you.

@KumquatSalad yes that was me!

I find it bizarre that everyone doesn't just compromise.
Dp goes on holiday alone so times as its hobby related and dull.
I go on odd mates weekend while he has all the dc.
We go away just us and pre school ds as it's cheap and easy and dsc are all in school.
We also go away all of the dsc and us.
Dp would prob go away with all 4 of his kids but he couldn't afford I and wouldn't cope tbh! Honestly op do what's best for you and your child, no one gets to judge really as it's your unit.
My advice make dp take his children away and you go have some lovely wine with mates or a nic3 spa weekend and chill out. Perfect!

@Tiredoftattler I just think you are falling into the same trap as so many others and being defensive about the fact that this relates to SC.

Not one person, including OP, is blaming the SC for existing, everyone is blaming her DP for the way he chooses to handle it, which is exactly what you are saying they should do.

I find it bizarre that everyone doesn't just compromise.
Exactly. I don’t think one single poster has supported leaving the DSD out of all family holidays, and yet there still posters going on as if the child will be locked under the stairs Harry Potter style and “left behind”, rather than perfectly safe and happy in the care of her mother.
It’s a false argument we are having here.

Everyone is hurting and compromising and the DC have no choice and agency in what has happened

Actually it’s a total myth that children have no agency. They may not be in control of whether their parents are together or not, but they do have agency and can impact and influence their households in all sorts of ways.

Everyones agency is constrained in myriad ways, and enabled in others. Children included. They are not just passive victims and it does children a disservice to assume they are. Just as not all adults chose to have their relationship end, not all children wish their parents were together. There are plenty of children who sincerely wish their parents will split up and do not lament it when it happens.

A child can choose to behave horribly in the hope of making her SM so miserable she’ll leave (this is well documented in research - and many children will tell you this is exactly what they are trying to achieve). This is especially the case when his or her parents’ behaviour reinforces it and gives the child enormous power. They might see that dad is ridiculously touchy about them and will blame the SM at the drop of a hat. They also may be well aware that mum is more than willing to be dragged into a drama they create. The child is not evil or anything here (they may be doing it for all sorts of reasons); but it’s bollocks to claim they have no control or agency.

Very often stepfamily dynamics give children unhealthy amounts of control and enable them to exercise agency in ways that aren’t good for anyone.

But, none of this fits the nice, simple narratives people insist on repeating as nauseum every time a SM wants to have any say in their or their own children’s lives rather than it all being dictated by other adults’ perceptions and desires in relation to the SC.

@Balabomy I'm curious to know your situation to understand your views? What is your blended family situation? For the record I would struggle with your example... I would feel very obligated to help pay for my step child's education so I would try and help without refusing my new job!

@aSofaNearYou

*You love your baby best. Your DH loves his two children equally. Exactly the same. Forever and ever. And good for him! Get used to it*

Weirdest Hallmark card ever.

It’s just a fact.