Holidays

[harryclr]

DP and I have argued a few times now about holidays.

We have a 7month old and he has a 5yr old DD from a previous relationship. I have expressed that whilst our baby is still young I'd like to go on a couple of more grown up breaks before he gets too old and our holidays have completely changed and are 100% revolved around children. Due to Covid we missed out on our baby moon and my birthday trip to Lisbon.

Is this selfish of me? I just think it would be nice to have time just us and our baby, as he doesn't speak or walk or have wants we are still able to go on a city break for example where he can be in the pram etc. A 5 year old needs constant entertaining and attention and the holiday completely changes. We can also be more intimate and affectionate and have more interesting/adult conversation when a 5yr old isn't around.

Does anyone think it's unreasonable of me?

He called me selfish and 'evil' and insists I want to leave his DD out and exclude her. He gets instantly defensive whenever I suggest anything, almost anything at all without her. He even went as far as to tell me where to go if I don't like it...I never said I never want to go on a family holiday, I am merely saying we have the opportunity at the moment to do a couple of different trips before our holidays are water parks, zoos and chips!

Is it selfish and unfair to just ask for some balance and compromise in this blended family?

I would only ever suggest to go away when DD is at her mums also, she is also at school.

Thanks x

I completely agree with tiredoftattler on honesty upfront. If the to-be sm says before things get serious: 'Hey, my dc' s needs will be first, my needs first, your dc is second and the SC is not a part of what I consider our own separate family. Your finances and problems are separate to mine, for example, I'd prioritise upgrading my car over your children's future' and he accepts all this, then all is fair. But it'd be hard to bring these up, let alone make a parent accept them. It'd certainly be a red flag for me and wouldn't consider the resulting relation a true union. Our values would be too different for the relationship to work. But as as seen from these posts there are people who have different expectations, to whom this deal feels fine and fair, so no judgement if there's honesty up front.

@Tiredoftattler as much as it shouldn't be surprising that a man in his position might not be bothered about a "baby moon", it shouldn't be surprising that a woman in OPs position who didn't already have children, might do, and he also went into the relationship knowingly. Why do you absolve parents of any responsibility for who they get into a relationship with, yet tell step parents they have no reason to expect compromise on that basis?

And OP is already focused on the adult relationship rather than the SC, surely - she's focused on her partner's refusal and the anger in which he expressed it.

Well at least we are now agreeing that it would not be acceptable to be told that you and your children will always be second place; no give and take, no compromise, no exceptions, no balance or equity.
That’s just as shitty and unreasonable demand of a partner, regardless of whether it’s coming from a parent or prospective step parent.
And I probably would not upgrade my car instead of helping DSD, just taking that in isolation. But that’s not what you asked is it? I wouldn’t give up a job to do it.

@Balabomy
Let me give an example (hopefully op will forgive me for diverging, but this might be relevant to issues she may face in the future) Suppose you landed a new job, that you want to accept, which is further away, and requires you to upgrade your car or move. At the same time sd is starting uni and her parent doesn't have enough to pay for expenses. You can't afford to do both. Whose needs are first? (ignore this if you'd not make a sacrifice for your own child either, as then this is not about step parenting anymore but another discussion)

If her parents cannot afford to do both then SD needs to get a job as an adult and make up the shortfall herself.
If I was offered a better job which required moving / upgrading my car then it would also come with a hefty pay rise (I’m assuming, otherwise why would you accept). Therefore my pay rise would ultimately benefit me, my DP, my kids and potentially my SCs in the long term so I would categorically say that I would 100% prioritise that over an adult stepchild wanting to go to uni who also had 2 parents who could support her... and also having the option to get a job and support herself.

I’d also say the same to my own kids.

@Balabomy @Tiredoftattler
Talking of honesty upfront...
I did exactly that with my DP. I made it clear I was looking for a romantic relationship and wasn’t interested in being a parent to his kids or him being a parent to mine.
I expected in time a close loving relationship between us all, with respect, kindness and care... but beyond that is a bonus.

His kids will not inherit from me or my family and I will not financially support them. Those are things for their parents to provide. If they don’t / can’t then I will not make up the shortfall.

I have also been honest from the start and said I have no desire to live with his kids full time.
If the situation arose where he had to take full custody of his DCs then we would sell our home and buy separate properties until they were grown.
We have discussed this.

I cannot and do not want take full time responsibility for someone else’s children. I will love, help and care for them but I have no desire to raise them as my own. I see them in the same vein as my nieces and nephews.

I'd prioritise upgrading my car over your children's future'

See even within your urn example, this is manipulative bullshit. The woman would be prioritizing her career - her earning potential and her own future. The car is to allow her to take the job.

But somehow the SD’s parents lack of contribution or planning is all forgotten. It’s all the SM’a fault for securing her own continued earning potential and job satisfaction.

@KumquatSalad I agree completely

@aSofaNearYou I said exactly that when I was met with 'you knew I had a child when we met, you shouldn't have got with me if you couldn't handle it and shouldn't have had a baby with me'

I said, 'you shouldn't have got with someone without a child if you didn't want a different future'

You're exactly right, where's the responsibility of being with someone who doesn't have a child when you do? You know they will want to start their own family with you.

For a bit of context, we for accidentally pregnant quite early into the relationship (he is my best friends brother so I know his family; knew he had a child etc) we were extremely shocked and I didn't know what to do, the whole experience was just horrible, his mum and sister were really angry 'can't believe you've both been so stupid, how could you do this again' (meaning how could he get someone pregnant so soon again, the relationship with the mother of his child didn't last and she left before the baby was 2) my best friends reaction was horrible, she didn't speak to me for weeks.

It's certainly not how you imagined your first pregnancy to be, in 34 so not young and I've always wanted kids but this wasn't the right time and was if the right person? I even looked into abortion...but I knew I couldn't do it and he agreed so we made a plan of how it could work and started to feel really happy and excited. And then I miscarried and it was horrific, anyone that has miscarried I'm sure can relate that it is all you can think about. I was consumed. So we discussed that we were committed to eachother seeing as he had a child and was my best friends brother we needed to make sure we were serious. We then fell pregnant again 4 months later.
I really like his child, she is a very good, well behaved child and she adores hun. It was all very exciting he had some concerns about her feeling left out etc but she was super excited when we told her.

I am sure again that many women in my situation can relate - once my baby came, it did all change ... hormones and a deep, deep love I suppose. I do all the usual things for DS, collect from school, cook, clean, take out, pay towards the house, holidays etc -but I don't love her as my own and she isn't my priority.

I just think asking for balance and compromise when it comes to time and experiences isn't unreasonable. Yes I knew you had a child, a child that's time is split 50/50 so on that premise. Her mother isn't great though so I know that's another reason why he over compensates.

Not sure what my point is here, I'm just off loading now! sorry! Just enjoying this thread x

@SpongebobNoPants how old were the kids when you got together?

Are you married? How would you split the inheritance? I was thinking about that the other day, if you co-own a house etc?

Did you have children with your DP? x

You're exactly right, where's the responsibility of being with someone who doesn't have a child when you do? You know they will want to start their own family with you
Funnily enough, this is almost exactly what my DH said to me when we had The Chat about the future, kids etc. He said “I wouldn’t waste anyone’s time - why would you want to give up the freedom of being child free but not be a mother yourself?”
Beginning to see my DH in a whole new golden light to be honest. He really does piss me off from time to time but threads like these make me see how easily I could have ended up with a “you will love my child like your own” character. DH can appreciate that I will always feel differently to a child of my own than I do a child of his ex.
Actually, I wouldn’t, I could never have tolerated it.

Our house goes to the other person and our standalone life insurance polices are split amongst all three children mirroring each others.

Our death in-service is 50% to each other and the reminder split amongst the three of them.

So yes DH and I will leave inheritance so that it is split that each of us will leave 33% of our life insurance policies to a child that technically isn't ours.

All our money is pooled together and all expenses, presents, driving lessons, large cash gifts, college etc come from that. Including the money that pays for all of our insurance policies.

I technically am the higher earner. Dh owned the house before I married him.

In the event both of us die the house is left to the three of them equally.

We have one each and one together.

@harryclr

My children were just turned 1 and 5, and DP’s were 6 & 10. We’ve been together 5.5 years now.
We have no children together and do not intend to.

We’re engaged but not married yet as our wedding has had to be postponed due to covid.

We own a house together and are joint owners... that means if either partner dies the other automatically gets the house and we also have an insurance clause in the mortgage which means the house is paid off in the event of one our deaths.

I’m not worried about if I die before him to be honest with regards to my kids inheriting as my DP is considerably older than me and I am considerably wealthier than him (family money, separate assets etc).

I paid for the house deposit. He had nothing when I met him. He has a great paying job but until I took control of finances as he was in terrible debt.

Due to this he puts double into the joint account that I do every month.

Because of this if he was to die in the next 10 years or so I would not give my SCs a penny in the event of his death. They effectively have no inheritance, their dad hasn’t contributed enough for it to count IYSWIM.

If we (luckily) grow old together and for example die within a similar time frame then all 4 kids (my DCs and SCs) will inherit equally from our house and joint assets. My SCs will not inherit anything from my separate assets.

If I significantly outlive my DP then I will have to take a view on what amount of inheritance I choose to leave my SCs.

They will not inherit anything from my wider family.

Hope that helps x

Interesting re inheritance

I guess it's slightly more complicated and different when you don't both already have kids.

I disagree with Tatler’s job analogy. If I join a new organisation I have to fit in with their rules and accept they are my bosses if I want them to pay me. Whilst it’s true there is a transactional element to romantic relationships (in terms of time and emotional energy etc exchanged between partners) my DH is not in a position of authority over me. If we’re going to relate the job analogy to step parenting it would more be akin to a colleague of equal grade making huge demands of me to make their working life easier without offering me anything extra to compensate.

I think that a great proportion of the problems on this board might be avoided if separated parents (and certain others) stopped expecting new partners to simply slot into the vacancy left by the former spouse/DP.

My compromise in being with a man who already has DC is knowing that he’ll always put them first over me when appropriate. My DH’s compromise is to understand that he has a new family dynamic now, not one where he recreates what he had with his ex only with a different woman. He also needs to recognise that as Not Their Parent I’ll have less inclination than either himself or their mother to sacrifice my wants by default against those of his children, so he’d better make sure our relationship is bloody good in other ways to make those constant sacrifices worth my while.

“If they were your own DC” is as irrelevant as if his parents were my parents or his siblings were my siblings. I appreciate the DCs don’t get a choice so it’s absolutely my duty to treat them with love, kindness and fairness regardless of my personal feelings towards them. They are my family. But they are NOT my children. All the “ifs” in the world doesn’t negate the fact that I’m entitled to make decisions that reflect that reality. It’s my job to state my wants and their dad’s job to balance that against the wants of his children. If he can’t achieve that balance then the whole relationship needs reconsidering, the solution isn’t to place the blame at step mum’s feet for not loving someone else’s children as if they were biologically hers whilst simultaneously having no authority or control over their upbringing.

We see the same old “you knew what you were getting into....” line trotted out over and over again. There’s an element of truth in that as a second wife/DP we need to appreciate that we’re not going the get the same “firsts” as the ex did. There are compromises to be expected. But it also cuts both ways - existing children are not going to get the same “firsts” or experiences either. I can help make things as nice as possible for them but I’m not there to facilitate a recreation of the nuclear family set up that the NRP, their ex and their DC once enjoyed. That dynamic is gone for good because of the choices one or both of those parents made, and expectations need to be adjusted accordingly. It doesn’t mean it’s wrong for a stepmum to occasionally want to do things with just her DH and/or their own biological children during the DSC’s usual contact time with their other parent. Whether or not it’s appropriate is dependent on the resources available and how it’s executed rather than the principle of it.

I think it depends on whether you can afford two holidays a year and whether going away will mean missed contact time with his dd.

If you can only afford one holiday a year then yabu to let his dd miss out on a family holiday.

Just imagine 5 years time and you had another baby. Would you feel ok leaving your child with say a grandparent and going away with the new baby? In effect that is what you are asking your dh to do.

So it is a little selfish as what you are suggesting is what most people do before children, not after. I think calling you evil os put of order.

On inheritance, the ‘existing’ DC get equal shares when we both die. Our mythical baby (since he doesn’t exist according to MN lore) gets a double share. We are the only parents he has, whereas the others will inherit via their other parents. Or not - but that depends on the other parents.

Inheritance here is really simple as everything is mine pre relationship and no shared assets and dp doesn't contribute to housing costs.
Everything goes to my dc and the sdc have a nominal consideration in the will which currently is a cash payment each from me. Dp gets to live in the house until dc is of age and gets a large sum from my pension and life isnurnaces to care for my dc. If my dc are adults and I die the pension and insurance gets split 50:50 between my dc and dp.
Dsc will inherit from their mother and grandparents. Dp won't pass them very much if he were to sadly die but as it stands he doesn't have a will!

Inheritance (as I previously discussed it) would have been something like this.
All my pre relationship assets were mine alone and to be passed to my DC/ nieces/ nephews. SDC get the sum total of zero.

My exboyf assets were his to do with as he pleased in the same manner.

Re housing. This was trickier as fundamentally I had ruled out ever sharing a home where contact took place. As such he would have needed to retain a separate home for the purposes of contact (or in the event the children decided to want to live with him). I’m was not prepared to take any of that on.

So the only conundrum that left us with was whether he set up home with me (when he didn’t have his children), and how that looked. As he would have to financially contribute something. And how would that look in terms of then his expectations of what % of my home he then had a ‘right’ to in terms of what % equity he could argue he wanted part of to form part of his estate.

I was up for having these serious conversations with lawyers a few years into our relationship. To understand the lay of the land and whether we could reach agreement on what a sensible / fair financial arrangement looked like.

I knew one thing. None of what I had worked super hard for would go towards propping up him/ his children and his exceptionally entitled (greedy) exwife. His ex, his children, his problem.

I will add, I went through a period of feeling exceptionally pressured into this notion of ‘one pot’ and ‘pooling assets.’ It was even said ‘all you care about is money.’

It made me feel really quite grubby and cheap in my mindset. When actually ‘society’ tells you to ‘provide’ and ‘be a family’. Especially if you are being put into the role of ‘step mother’ and someone who should want to nurture and provide.
I think where things are ‘equitable’ in terms of exes (do they work vs claiming spousal support) and you can focus on simply building a new life with a partner - the financial convo becomes easier.

Where however (as was my situation), there is a high conflict ex wife, fighting everything tooth and nail, and/ or Claiming spousal, Someone like me (never claimed a penny of spousal) simply looks at the situation and thinks ‘a portion of my hard earned money is not going to be spent propping you up, so that that you can pay your ex wife and fight with her over your children.’ Bluntly speaking, I’d rather give money to charity then be financially bled because my partner really picked an awful / lazy/ entitled woman to marry.

So I ringfenced my finances ruthlessly and it I pretty much plan to not deviate from that.

Sassbott...agreed! I'm glad you say that as there is pressure.

There is no way on the earth I’d be able to go away on holiday and leave one of my kids out. So whilst I don’t think it makes you evil I do think it’s selfish and resentful.

I dont know why some women expect fathers to think it’s ok to leave one behind either.

Maybe further down the line it will be changed from ‘I just want one more city break’ to ‘I just want to take my dc to Disney Land but we can’t afford to take both’ or ‘ I just want one holiday abroad but we can’t afford to take both’

Think how you and your dc would feel if your DH turns in to a ex dh and does this with his new family?

Then op can take her child without her dp if she spends her own money as its her child. Clearly.
Same as dp can take both his children away if he wants to without op as he has two children but she does not.

Think how you and your dc would feel if your DH turns in to a ex dh and does this with his new family?

What my ex does in his non-contact time is no business of mine. DS wouldn’t mind either. He’d be with me at the time.

I suspect a lot of the chest beating over never leaving one of your children to go on holiday is from people with young children. Just wait til your teenager doesn’t want to go with you anyway. 😂

There is a massive pressure and honestly? It makes me really very angry.
I’ve had children and I don’t think my children or my experience make me any more special than any other human who walks this earth. Millions of women have given birth before me, millions will continue to do so. Big deal!

Your children are your children, no more precious or important than anyone else’s.
Your role as a mother (who chooses to stay at home and not work) is no more important or precious than those mothers who have either chosen (or bluntly had no choice) other than to go out and continue working outside the home.

How their continues to be a huge tranche of women who feel this entitled around their children/ spousal support, quite honestly enrages me no end. Get out, get a job, provide for your own children and your own lifestyle. And stop expecting a free ride from others.

Slap bang behind that rant is a rant for NR fathers who act equally entitled regards their children and require support regards their ex wives!

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@LaraLuce I have taken my DS6 on trips on his own. I took him to peppa pig world before covid and stayed a couple of nights in a hotel with him.
I’m also planning on taking him to stay in the Legoland hotel when we are allowed.

I also have taken my DD10 on trips all over Europe for city breaks. She’s a bit older, loves museums and the theatre etc. It’s a completely different dynamic when it’s just me and her and if I’m honest far more enjoyable for me. She’s very mature for her age and loves nothing more then going to a fancy restaurant.

My trips with DD would be DS’ idea of hell, and vice versa.

We do beach holidays every year too with both of my kids... and another with my SCs too.[/quote]
Well in your situation the children are both happy, and presumably had the option to come too if they would have enjoyed it? I think this is fairly unusual.

Would OP's stepchild have the option of coming? Would she enjoy the planned holiday? In your case, these were extra trips and the children still had a family holiday all together. Also, each child got a one-on-one trip. Would the OP's stepchild also have a one-on-one holiday with her dad? Would there also be a family holiday with everyone? These are the questions which would determine how the 5 year old sees the situation.

I think the child's feelings should be paramount in this, especially when she's already likely to be feeling sensitive and left out with her father having a new child. I know my MIL (baby of family) still remembers the time when she was left behind with grandparents and her siblings went on holiday with her parents (no step family issues here). She was devastated.