BM expectations?

[Songbird232018]

So BM or some she knows has been on MN as in a text row yesterday she called my partner a useless Disney dad... I got really defensive as in my eyes he's the furthest from it and I'm not blind to his faults by any means!

So decent dad points if you will

• pays CSA every month religiously for 2 kids granted he was paying more and its took a drop this year because he's had less work. Gone from 360 to around 300 last month
• has 3 kids (2 bio one step) EOW, twice for tea, half holidays if not more and more random nights when possible ie Inset days
• pays 1 child's phone bill mum does the other
• all 3 kids get £15 pocket money a month
• when we can we treat the kids to new trainers/Coats etc and we always get the expensive Christmas / bday gift such as PlayStation, laptop, phone etc as they are always told to ask dad and we like treating them.
• always attends parents evening/ sports days/ open days etc
• pulls the kids up on bad behaviour and has no issues being hard when needed (rare!)

• Family life here is harmonious with my and our bio son 3
• we allow sleepovers and parties as we have a bigger house and space for them

Points where I can see issues maybe

• he doesn't really get involved in or enforce homework when they are with us which I've pulled him up on

• he does refuse to half school trips now as we paid for one at £120 only to find out the child didn't go and we didn't get that money back so he has refused to out towards any others ( we always give spending money) the kids would never miss out if they really wanted to go somewhere to be honest As we would sort it if we could.

• similar issue with uniforms he was buying shoes / bags etc but nothing was ever right and she wanted cash rather than him buy the items ( she took everything back ) so he stopped this and only only pays CSA to cover uniforms this is a area he won't budge on at all now and I do agree she gets enough to cover this for 2 children.

I guess I just want others opinions as a lot of my friends have Exs who do nothing and pay nothing yet we always get the worst words from from BMs mouth!

BM is married again with 3 other children with new husband just for info

But I think he's paying what he can afford,

What's your basis for that?

Disney dad to me doesn't have anything to do with maintenance- it's to do with parenting ie making the kids do homework, telling them off when needed, teaching them how to behave, teaching them to cook/do washing etc - not just all the fun bits! (Like days out, no homework, big presents!)

@Veterinari

But I think he's paying what he can afford,

What's your basis for that?

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

@Veterinari

Ok so you do think maintenance is more important than playstations, but you also still think he probably can't afford more maintenance because he has to buy expensive gifts...

Nothing to do with him choosing not to.

Wow that's some tangled logic you have there.

. I think if he didn't give them any presents because he was paying more maintenance and couldn't afford it that you'd complain about that too.

Ah another absurd assumption to make your point. You're clearly no fan of a middle ground!

That's not what I said at all though is it? Try reading.

Oh threads like this do make me chuckle

So he does the minimum required/ needed. Juts like she does. Actually supporting his kids makes him a basic parent, not a Disney dad. And the term has been around much longer than MN has....

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

Oh yeah that's how CMS works 😂

Especially if you're self employed/on commission/getting bonuses/cash in hand. Definitely no loopholes.

@Veterinari

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

Oh yeah that's how CMS works 😂

Especially if you're self employed/on commission/getting bonuses/cash in hand. Definitely no loopholes.

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

@Veterinari

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

Oh yeah that's how CMS works 😂

Especially if you're self employed/on commission/getting bonuses/cash in hand. Definitely no loopholes.

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

@Veterinari

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

Oh yeah that's how CMS works 😂

Especially if you're self employed/on commission/getting bonuses/cash in hand. Definitely no loopholes.

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

@Veterinari

If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

Oh yeah that's how CMS works 😂

Especially if you're self employed/on commission/getting bonuses/cash in hand. Definitely no loopholes.

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

CMS is a really poor assessment of affordability just as it is no reflection what so ever of the cost of raising a child. It's an arbitrary figure, driven by questionable logic: nothing more.

I don't know what others hear with the expression 'disney daddy' but to mean it means a parent who doesn't deal with the parenting e.g. home work. You know, the day to day stuff, that isn't as fun as say buying an xbox or giving pocket money, arranging sleep overs etc....

Based on what has been shared, seems like he does the bare minimum. There's no prizes for seeing your own child or going to parents evenings etc..

@Veterinari he doesn't see his kids infrequently , twice a week for dinner and every other weekend , yes its not 50:50 but then he wouldn't have to pay maintenance
And every other weekend may be because their mum wants them some weekends , but he see's them weekly and feeds them at least twice a week
I think maybe he should help with uniforms and trips maybe paying trips direct to school and uniform taking dc out to get or agreeing to pay for school shoes
Op says they do buy shoes and coats etc as well so he is paying
Its also mums responsibilities to pay towards kids as well
He should enforce homework and back up dc mum though

CMS is a really poor assessment of affordability just as it is no reflection what so ever of the cost of raising a child. It's an arbitrary figure, driven by questionable logic: nothing more.

How would you determine how much an nrp pays then?

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

I haven't suggested that he is. My point is that your 'logic' for using CMS as an affordability calculator is deeply flawed. But then it's the same logic that says he can't afford more than a fiver a day to sustain his children but he can afford luxury goods worth hundreds. So to be expected I guess. 🤷‍♀️

@Veterinari

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

I haven't suggested that he is. My point is that your 'logic' for using CMS as an affordability calculator is deeply flawed. But then it's the same logic that says he can't afford more than a fiver a day to sustain his children but he can afford luxury goods worth hundreds. So to be expected I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Yes if you interpret one thing I say completely wrong you'll do it with everything I suppose.

[quote timeforanewstart]@Veterinari he doesn't see his kids infrequently , twice a week for dinner and every other weekend , yes its not 50:50 but then he wouldn't have to pay maintenance
And every other weekend may be because their mum wants them some weekends , but he see's them weekly and feeds them at least twice a week
I think maybe he should help with uniforms and trips maybe paying trips direct to school and uniform taking dc out to get or agreeing to pay for school shoes
Op says they do buy shoes and coats etc as well so he is paying
Its also mums responsibilities to pay towards kids as well
He should enforce homework and back up dc mum though [/quote]
Again, depends on your frame of reference doesn't it?
Seems pretty infrequent to me - 2 days plus 2 dinners out of 14. But it's a matter of opinion - which is what the OP asked for.
My opinion is he's hardly father of the year - you don't have to agree.

How would you determine how much an nrp pays?

@Veterinari the amount he pays is decided by a system that allows the nrp to also live , those who declare they earn less may cheat the system
But like others have said the nrp also has to have a home and place where the children can say and items for the children
The resident parent can also claim universal credit , cb etc if they do not earn much and maintenance isn't included in this
Its like some think the nrp should pay half their wages

@Pinkyxx

CMS is a really poor assessment of affordability just as it is no reflection what so ever of the cost of raising a child. It's an arbitrary figure, driven by questionable logic: nothing more.

I don't know what others hear with the expression 'disney daddy' but to mean it means a parent who doesn't deal with the parenting e.g. home work. You know, the day to day stuff, that isn't as fun as say buying an xbox or giving pocket money, arranging sleep overs etc....

Based on what has been shared, seems like he does the bare minimum. There's no prizes for seeing your own child or going to parents evenings etc..

How would you determine how much an nrp should pay?

Please tell me which part of
If he's paying what CMS say then he's paying what he can afford.

I misunderstood?

Also please do explain how you think maintenance is more important than luxury goods but continue to insist he cant possibly afford to pay more maintenance, despite having enough disposable income to buy multiple luxury goods?

I've clearly misunderstood...

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I don't make any suggestions on how to,as I don't believe every situation is a replica of the other. This approach has been taken due to the fact that absent 2 parents willing to remain equally responsible for all aspects of parenting their children post separation there has to be something used. This is different to it being defendable. IMO there is no absolute way to define what an NRP should pay without a far more granular approach (which is of course impractical to administer).

It is wildly subjective, and dependent on individual circumstances / needs of the individual child, earnings capability of each party, living costs etc. These are factors which vary immensely family to family. Nights spent with NRP / income don't change the absolute cost of raising children.

To say your situation, my situation, OP's situation, each person on this thread's situation are identical thus merit the same binary calculation to be applied to the extent is it so defendable so as to be 'justified' seems absurd to me... it seems often used to 'hide' behind or justify the unreasonableness of one party. Just my opinion..

[quote timeforanewstart]@Veterinari the amount he pays is decided by a system that allows the nrp to also live , those who declare they earn less may cheat the system
But like others have said the nrp also has to have a home and place where the children can say and items for the children
The resident parent can also claim universal credit , cb etc if they do not earn much and maintenance isn't included in this
Its like some think the nrp should pay half their wages [/quote]
Thanks I'm familiar with the system.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I can't offer any suggestions on how to better assess. I just don't believe every situation is a replica of the other. This approach has been taken due to the fact that absent 2 parents willing to remain equally responsible for all aspects of parenting their children post separation there has to be something used. This is different to it being defendable. IMO there is no absolute way to define what an NRP should pay without a far more granular approach (which is of course impractical to administer). For what it's worth, I think the whole benefits system in this country is inherently flawed.

The amount needed is wildly subjective, and dependent on individual circumstances / needs of the individual child, earnings capability of each party, living costs, expectations of each party etc. These are factors which vary immensely family to family. Nights spent with NRP / income don't change the absolute cost of raising children. Nor does it consider intangibles - such as the impact on earning power on one party having the lion's share of care - something which indisputably disproportionately impacts single Mothers.

To say your situation, my situation, OP's situation, each person on this thread's situation are identical thus merits the same binary calculation to be applied to the extent is it so defendable so as to be 'justified' as adequate seems absurd to me... it seems often used to 'hide' behind or justify the unreasonableness of one party. Just my opinion.....

@Veterinari

Right and what information do you have which makes you think he is using loopholes?

I haven't suggested that he is. My point is that your 'logic' for using CMS as an affordability calculator is deeply flawed. But then it's the same logic that says he can't afford more than a fiver a day to sustain his children but he can afford luxury goods worth hundreds. So to be expected I guess. 🤷‍♀️

Yes if you interpret one thing I say completely wrong you'll do it with everything I suppose.