Being honest, would you be bothered about not seeing your SCs again if you and your partner split tomorrow?

[FlippidyFlop]

Would you? I see this on here a lot when step children are being discussed 'you might not see them again if you and DH split tomorrow'

I just don't think I would personally. I get on perfectly well with them but it's just not something that would bother me if me and DH ever split.

He makes excuses for them, all the time. They engage in attention seeking behaviours, he cannot see it. They’re young. They ignore people? Well perhaps my style is a little direct and intimidating.

There is always an excuse for the children and an inate defensiveness I neither understand nor support. Children are children. They will push boundaries. Be rude. Be lovely. Be hideous. Be amazing. Be disrespectful. They’re little humans testing the waters.

You are totally right. I can see and accept that my children will not always behave as I expect, but that just means they need discipline and direction to achieve this.

I don’t need to be weird or defensive. And no my style is not overbearing and intimidating. It’s just not permissive and lazy.

Yes, I will say something the first time I see an issue. And yes I will be absolutely clear and firm about what should be happening. And I’ll put the consequences I outlined in place - even if it inconveniences me.

DSD eats extremely slowly on purpose. It’s an entrenched and hugely disruptive behaviour in our lives. She can eat normally if it suits her but she chooses to do it. Once she took 90 minutes to eat an extremely small toastie. It had nothing she disliked in it. She was just being naughty. When she finally finished, DH took her to a toy shop and bought her a couple of large toys (because that’s what he had wanted to do that day and didn’t see why HE should miss out on treating his children 🙄).

But apparently I’m a dreadful person who is harsh and overbearing if I tackle it as follows. I clearly say to DSD as I put down food: ‘You have 30 minutes to finish this. It’s a tuna sandwich and some apple slices, and I know you like both of these things. When the big hand on the clock gets to 8, you will have taken too long and run of time and . Then I refuse to remind her or tell her to hurry up. She’ll sulk her way through it, and we’ll get to 30 mins and she’ll have eaten half of it. So I’ll say ‘OK DSD, that’s half an hour. You have chosen to eat very slowly again. That means ’. And I’ll enforce the consequence, which might be not going to the park with everyone else or something. Because this is recurring behaviour, and DSD seems to act like she’s been really good immediately afterwards, I might also say: ‘DSD you do realise that your behaviour this lunchtime is not OK? You are in trouble and that’s why . Why didn’t you do what we asked you to do?’.

Tbh, I think that’s very fair and reasonable. I don’t shout or make idle threats. I focus on the behaviour not the character. It’s the tip of the mealtime issues iceberg in this house, and it fundamentally affects everyone. DH wants her to eat her lunch so he insists we all wait til she’s finished.

But apparently I hate DSD. Any discussion of her behaviour and how profoundly it affects every single one of us ends up in an accusation that I just hate her. Tbh, I hate the behaviour; it’s an absolutely enormous problem. And I’m angry about it. But I’m angry at HIM because he’s responsible for it and his poor parenting is exactly why it’s so entrenched and hard to fix. His parenting has produced a difficult, rude, manipulative little girl who is determined to behave badly because it gets her attention. And who literally will never say ‘sorry’.

But he thinks she’s sweet and cute, so she’ll do things and then go upstairs and make a card saying ‘I love you daddy. You are the best daddy in the world and make the best food. I wish I lived with you all the time’ and he’ll decide that I’m horrible and acting out of hatred. All DSD learns is to make a grand empty gesture and everyone should just forget consistent bad behaviour. If DS did that, I’d say: ‘that’s very nice. I love you too. However, it doesn’t make it alright to do . The best way to show that you love someone is by treating them well.’ Because that’s the lesson I want him to learn. As it is, he’d just say sorry for what he’s done in the first place (because he knows that’s what I expect).

I think most of us could make similar lists @sassbott. Emerging tweenage attitude is at the top of mine. 🤦🏻‍♀️

@sassbott How can you stand your DH? He sounds SO deluded.

@WooMaWang Did/do you sit around waiting for DSD to finish? I'd leave her to it. In fact, I'd leave her father to come up with all the ideas for food for his children, shop for it, cook and serve it, then clear up. Then you can have a peaceful mealtime with your DSSs before or after.

[quote MeridianB]@sassbott How can you stand your DH? He sounds SO deluded.

@WooMaWang Did/do you sit around waiting for DSD to finish? I'd leave her to it. In fact, I'd leave her father to come up with all the ideas for food for his children, shop for it, cook and serve it, then clear up. Then you can have a peaceful mealtime with your DSSs before or after.[/quote]
I don’t sit around. I let DS leave the table the instant he finishes his food (this is not ideal because actually I’d like to sit and chat with him etc, but I can’t put him through any more time at the table with the DSC than necessary). When I’m done I’ll get up and sort out the kitchen, or laundry, or go and feed the baby.

I have told DH that the scenario you outline (he takes FULL responsibility for mealtimes with his children) but, as you can imagine, he’s not keen. And that’s hugely disruptive and difficult too. And still means that our lives are dictated by the poor behaviour of his children.

DH hates the eating issues too (it’s not just slowness, but that’s a really big one). But he seems to try to minimise it. He asks me why I’m so angry about it. That’ll be because it affects every single day. Multiple times. And it’s inescapable. We can’t not feed the DSC. So it’s 3 times a day every single time they’re here. And it is hard to avoid. I’d have to eat at weird times to avoid it. As would DS2 and eventually DS3. Especially as it happens in the kitchen so I couldn’t even cook without encountering it. It’s just not a small thing that can be ignored and easily lived with. Plus there’s the issue that I absolutely do not want DS3 copying the DSC’s rating behaviour. DSS (whose role model for eating is largely his sister, as their parents never ate with them, and their mother still doesn’t) already copies it to an extent, so it’s a real concern.

The fact is, it’s not just me. No one could live with this eating issue and not be angry about it. Their mother just puts food down in front of the tv and lets them graze until she replaces it with the next meal, or hands out sweets and chocolate did snacks. She knows it’s an issue but can’t be bothered doing anything about it. As a result, DSD couldn’t even hold a fork (never mind a knife) until I tried to teach her at 5. She still can’t use cutlery even close to properly. She was drinking from sippy cups at 5 too.

@WooMaWang my SS is just the same with food, it's extremely frustrating. Though in his case it is more his mum's side of the family and everyone else in my DP's family that continually pander to it. Reading these comments, I am extremely grateful that at least my DP and I are on the same page about my SS's behaviour. There's no way I could put up with it otherwise.

@WooMaWang we’ve all been there with the food issues. I had it with my youngest when growing up. And I dealt with it. Consistently, calmly. As with other irritating childhood blips, this too (thankfully) has passed.

Issues with / around food are very common in these situations and it’s a way children (especially) learn to exert control. Sometimes it can be attention seeking behaviour. Sometimes (more worryingly) it’s how children start to exert their control in a world where they have none. And if not careful - this is the sort of stuff that underpins eating disorders. If a child learns that messing about with food gets them rewards/ attention, it reinforces unhealthy behaviours around food.

I have problems at mealtimes too. But I just ignore them. Once I’ve finished eating, I get up and start clearing up. They’re not relaxing or fun.

@MeridianB he’s not my husband. Thank god.
I sadly cannot work with it, deep down I know that. The problem is no one else will be honest with him and tell him what’s what. And to be fair, the children are not terribly behaved.

It’s just; a dysfunction around them that isn’t healthy. And the main perpetuator around it is their father. Now it may be that he’s not wrong. How he’s parenting may well be what his children need. The challenge becomes when he then tries to enforce his way in my house. Because I won’t tolerate it any longer.

And the main challenge is if I tolerate this. It’s the dynamic I have to put up with the most. As I’m the one most involved.

If I saw them once every 2/3 months (like family members), I’d probably show up, keep my mouth shut, do what needs to be done and leave. Because I don’t have to deal with again....

I’m glad your DH is on the same page @aSofaNearYou. It must help a great deal.

Mine wants his kids to eat properly. But he’s busy trying not to take responsibility for his part in it and he doesn’t like any action that might tackle it.

His family don’t help either. Last time she was here, MIL sat next to DSD and fed her. The 3 year old sat next to them and fed himself as she fed a 6 year old with no disabilities or special needs of any kind. She even told DSS off at one point for not eating properly.

Where do you even start with that? I decided it was time for me and DS to carry out some errands outside the house as soon as I’d finished eating, rather than sit there fuming about it any longer. DH said nothing to his mum, who spent the whole time telling DSD what a wonderful girl she was (and DSD kept glaring at me with a clear look of ‘ha. You can’t do anything about this!’

@WooMaWang surely taking the food away after 30 minutes is a reasonable consequence in itself? Why lump something else on top? If she's hungry then next time she'll eat faster, if not then she's had enough and that's fine, no need for more drama.

Giving so much attention to food is 100% going to make the behaviour worse and risks adding later eating issues into the mix. The Ellyn Satter method was recommended to us by a paediatric dietitian and is a really good approach for kids who are fussy or tricky around mealtimes - it really saved us with our fussy DD by taking all the pressure away from food. www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/

@sassbott Oh I know what’s going on. But the horse had bolted on dysfunctional eating long before I met DH. And his ways of dealing with it made (make) it worse.

My tactic is to set a time limit and ignore her. Then calmly explain the consequence and put it in place. I’m trying to take the stress out of it, give her no real attention for it, but make it clear that she can’t use it to control everyone. Tbh, it would work if DH wasn’t the king of intermittent reinforcement of poor behaviour.

I argue with him about it away from her. Because she is positively delighted if she upsets everyone, so why show her that? Plus, she’s like this about everything. I’ve never met a child who was so certain that everything should revolve around their wants as DSD is. That extends to her thinking that she can tell us how to arrange the living room furniture and things like that. And, exhaustingly, the more choice and control she’s given, the more demanding she gets.

When my own DC had their fussy eating issues, it was all pretty easy to deal with. But that’s because it could be dealt with consistently and with little fuss. This is so far past that, plus DH isn’t willing to just let her not eat or to put himself out to sort it. So it never ends.

@WooMaWang surely taking the food away after 30 minutes is a reasonable consequence in itself? Why lump something else on top? If she's hungry then next time she'll eat faster, if not then she's had enough and that's fine, no need for more drama.

You’d think this would be the case. But no. She decides she’s won if you take the food away. And she gets slower and slower in subsequent meals. Plus the other poor behaviour gets worse - at the table and away from it. So she’ll kick the other kids and poke them with things. And make annoying noises. And talk over everyone else. Because her intention is to make it miserable. It’s not really about eating.

Her mum will just give her sweets etc whenever she wants, whether she eats food or not. And she’s not always here. So she’ll sulk and behave badly while not eating dinner here and not care if she’s hungry because she’s going back to the house of snacks (with a sob story).

Then she’ll complain to her mum that we starved her and DH’s ex will stop contact. She’s done this twice.

And DH can’t cope with the thought of her being hungry.

So there has to be some consequence that actually matters to her. Taking the food away after 30 minutes just makes no difference (I suggested we tried this first but it was really not successful). The consequence is not about the eating. It’s about continuing to be naughty just to inconvenience everyone else (given that we can’t let her not eat).

Because in a blended family things are complex in stupid ways. What would work under normal circumstances is ineffective with an ex determined to prove she’s Top Parent.

And to be clear that we aren’t being mean and super strict, DSD is given loads of control over the appropriate areas of her life. She chooses her own clothes and what she wants to wear each day. She chooses how she wants her hair that day. She chooses what she reads (and what DH reads with her). She chooses what she wants to play. She chooses what she watches on tv (often to the detriment of DSS rather than fairly). DH is always moving the furniture in her room around because she’s decided she wants to order him about it needs changing again (because yesterday’s arrangement wasn’t good enough).

If she chooses what everyone eats, her eating behaviour will always be worse than if she didn’t choose though. It’s weird.

No amount of control is enough for her. She thinks she should decide how everyone’s room is arranged. And tells DH that ‘we’ need to buy a new sofa or table or whatever regularly. And she wants to choose DSS’s clothes for him. And so on.

It’s exhausting.

I've been a step mum for 22 years, DSS was 4 when he first came into my life and I can't imagine him not being part of it.

Things haven't always been easy and at times I haven't always felt this way but he is the boys adored big brother, my adult stepson, and a huge part of our life. His mum hasn't made it easy over the years but now he's an adult he comes 'home' to us not her by his choice.

If I am brutally honest the love is different from that of my biological sons but I still love him and more so than nieces and nephews for example and if my DB and SIL split up I'd still want to see my nieces!

@2gorgeousboys totally with you. Our stepsons exactly the same age and been together for the same length of time. I love my nephews and nieces but definitely feel more love for my step son. He's a wonderful big brother and lots of fun to be around. He also had the kids on his own for the first time last year overnight (amusingly his granny was worried about that not thinking like the fact his dad was actually 3 years younger when he had him!). You see yourself being with your partner for a long time and make the most of the stepchildren they will be in your life forever and yes it has been really hard at times but so has parenting my own children.

That does sound extremely exhausting. You don’t need to explain yourself on here. I can quite honestly tell you that if I didn’t have my DC and my calm set up with my exh I could (and worryingly enough probably would have internalised what I’m being told about what is and isn’t normal).

I am raising (despite a shock separation and divorce) grounded, polite and empathetic children. I am not out to prove anything to anyone and I am not trying to compensate in anyway for the fact that their parents divorced. It was tough in the beginning (so tough) but now we’ve found our stride and for now (thank goodness) it’s ok. So whenever I am told I am I take a step back, look at the children I am raising and I know that I’m absolutely on the money.

When we see dysfunction, it isn’t that we ‘don’t like the child/ have issues with the children.’ I don’t like the dysfunction that accompanies them. And that my DP is actually a large part of. And over time, what I deeply resent is the intrusion of it into my happy world. Repeatedly.

It’s just, well, boring and exhausting.

@WooMaWang
I’ll be honest I couldn’t stay with this man, his behaviour towards his DC is abhorrent.
The DD sounds in serious need of help, beyond bizarre behaviour for such a young child. She will likely grow up to be an abusive partner because she only knows how to manipulate and be in control.

When we see dysfunction, it isn’t that we ‘don’t like the child/ have issues with the children.’ I don’t like the dysfunction that accompanies them. And that my DP is actually a large part of. And over time, what I deeply resent is the intrusion of it into my happy world. Repeatedly.

It’s just, well, boring and exhausting.

This is absolutely it.

It sounds like you’re doing a brilliant job all round @sassbott

I've found this thread interesting reading. I'm a "first wife" and I think I'd actually appreciate the kind and welcoming, but hands off, variety of stepmum. I do try with ds's sm, but he already has two parents. I'm glad she cares about him, but she shouldn't get an equal say to me and his dad. She's welcome to discipline him as she sees fit in her house - obviously barring physical chastisement - but I don't appreciate the abusive text messages telling me how to raise him.

I grew up with my DDad's stepmum as one of my grandmothers. When my beloved grandpa died she buggered off. Literally pulled a vanishing act, poof, gone, no forwarding address. It really hurt as a small child to discover my grandmother didn't love us or want us in her life.

I've read this whole thread with great interest.

Genuinely not sure how I'd feel about not seeing my stepkids again and I guess it would depend on the circumstances. If I split with OH then I can't imagine maintaining an independent relationship with them. I think it would be fraught with difficulties between us both; being honest they would probably be the reason we had split up. Our child would see them in his contact time so there'd be nothing for me to facilitate. I'm sure I would miss them at times and wonder how they were getting on - I'd wish them well - but I would feel the same of my in-laws, nieces, nephews on that side too.

If my OH were to pass away I think that would be very different and despite how difficult his ex can be, I think we would try and maintain some communication for all their sakes. As we know though, that's easier said than done. The reality would ultimately be that I would probably move away closer to work and family so the practicalities would probably falter.

I care for my stepkids and do plenty for them, I enjoy their company and wish them all the very best in life. I don't tend to communicate much with them between seeing them as I know their mum doesn't want it. And interestingly, if I really soul search and speak honestly, I would find it exceedingly difficult to see my child have a stepmum. I would like to think I could be the bigger person and give them "permission" to have a good relationship but deep down I'd probably hate it and feel very bitter indeed. I think being a Mum can be quite defining for so many of us and hence why we can be oh so protective of it.

I think the vast majority of stepmums here have found themselves in really the only position they can be in. Simultaneously hands off/hands on. Battling Disney Dad and a Mum who doesn't want you around. Trying to forge a relationship with someone elses children who may have different backgrounds/morals/behaviour to what you expected. It is absolutely not for the faint hearted and I applaud us all. I say to my OH "would you like my parents to come round every weekend; to cook their preferred meals; all the extra cleaning and do the activities they want to do?" And he unsurprisingly looks horrified. Unconditional love also has a lot to answer for, and so long as the children have that from both their parents then I think step parents can just do their best as a supporting act.

I love my DSD deeply. Her dad is long dead and she's been in my life for over 30 years. My sons call her their sister. She's been a blessing to me - as I have been to her. She's getting an equal third of my estate.

Yes, a million times what @sassbott said and @Magda72 said.

I’m in a similar position here, relationship of 5 year potentially on borrowed time because a whole set of dysfunction surrounds DP and his relationship with his dd.

We are sort of in limbo in a sense that I refuse to merge finances with him while
he continues to perpetuate the idea that his dd (age 19 and done nothing constructive with her life since she stopped attending school aged 15) is a helpless baby who needs all her needs met by mum and dad for the rest of her life. She is someone who won’t so much as pop to the shop to pick up a pint of milk without declaring that she is being unfairly treated. No, I won’t be involved with that, many thanks.

It is boring and I have frankly detached from his dd - if I never saw her again would not be bothered. There is nothing to be gained investing emotionally in someone else’s child who feels she can play you and manipulate you into believing she is a sweet permanent small child.

I’ve tried really routing for her. But until her own parents step up it’s meaningless. And not a good use of my time.

Got enough going on with my own (also annoying) dc.

I think as I approach the age of 50 my tolerance for other people’s dysfunctional stuff is rapidly disappearing!

I would also point out that where there is Disney Dadding/where your parenting efforts exceed those of the actual parents (as in my case and @sassbott and @WooMaWang and @Magda72, or, are unappreciated by the step dc aided by a bitter ex Wife (as for Magda and Sasbott) - every single article advises that the way forward is firmly:

.....to detach.

Google the Disengaging essay... perhaps someone cleverer than me can link to it. Those posters unfamiliar with the stepmumming arena might find it enlightening.

Therefore, if remaining ‘supportive yet detached’ as am I re: DP’s dd (who loves spending time at my house). It follows that you may not actually be bereft at not seeing said dc in the future should the relationship end.

I say to my OH "would you like my parents to come round every weekend; to cook their preferred meals; all the extra cleaning and do the activities they want to do?" And he unsurprisingly looks horrified.

Genius. I’ve had a few conversations along these lines with DH, trying to get him to see my perspective. I’ve asked him how he’d feel if I had some total as head ex who messed our lives around for fun. He looked horrified, too. But the the empathy gradually wore off.