Sick and tired of feeling like we are never allowed to enjoy time without SC

[CrankyFrankyHoot]

Am I being unreasonable?

I feel like my husband refuses to do anything fun unless my SC are here with us.

I get big things like holidays but we can't even take our child out for the day without him feeling guilty or suggesting we do it another time when SC are here.

For example, we went out to a little town for a walk around when it wasn't our day and there were some boats you can ride down the river. I suggested we do it and he was all 'we'll come back when we have SC and do it then hey?' (I argued against this and said we are allowed to have fun when they aren't here but still, it annoys me that he's always doing this).

Surely our child is allowed to enjoy time with us when their siblings aren't here?

We do plenty all together but I do think it's important for us to do some things as well on our own so we aren't just sitting around waiting for the next contact day all the time before we can go anywhere.

If the father is reluctant to do fun activities when his other DC aren't around, I'd just ensure my DC didn't miss out on those experiences.

Whilst you may want the child to have those memories with him, you can't force him to participate, so I'd just do it with my child/children.

When he sees photos of you and your DC, it will be evident he wasn't around and ultimately, when the child has limited fun memories, they'll decide how the relationship develops as they grow up.

The attitude of fun times must be reserved for when the other kids are here is absolutely nonsense.

To SakiSiam

I think that it is hard for people who live together to understand the particular ways to best navigate family dynamics when their concept of "my children" involves a different configuration and number of children. It think also that many people have trouble accepting the fact that their particular way is neither the only way or the best way.

This may be a situation where two parents have different but equally valid ways of doing things. The proof of which way worked best won't be determined until their kids are grown . As my mom often says, " the proof is in the pudding.

In this situation the pudding is in the process of being prepared and the outcome has yet to be determined.

The boat was not booked. It was a spontaneous, queue up and go on a boat thing as we were walking past
Then you did absurdly nothing wrong and it sounds like you are offering a very balanced life to all your children. Why is your OH so uptight about it?

@Tiredoflatter > I do agree with you about the 'different and valid ways'; very much so. And how you won't know how it's worked until children are adults in their own right. You've made me look at this from yet another angle. But although I'm happy with the extended family created by my dad, I don't consider them as my family. They're just people brought into the picture.

OP - this scenario is exactly what I’m going through with my other half and SD. We don’t do anything on weekends with our two little ones and he only suggests things to do on SD weekends. Can’t see this changing anytime soon so I just plan things to do with the little ones on my own (which is also ridiculous how I have to do this on my own.)

I would ask him if separating is what it takes for him to spend nice moments with your kids. Or one day your children will ask him themselves. I don't remember it, but my mom told me that my dad wasn't doing much with me and my sister and one day we went to an attraction park and saw other kids with both parents and asked our dad why wasn't he coming with us. Apparently, it made him feel bad and he made some efforts. Kids notice these kinds of things and if they want their dad to participate, they will complain and he's going to feel just as guilty. He will not react the same way to them that he does to his wife.

And by the way, @Tiredoftattler, my parents were together and my dad didn't tuck us into bed or looked us in the eyes every day. If you had a dad like you describe, he's one in a million. Most kids don't lose all that much by not living with their dad. Divorce is really not such a big deal after the initial shock (if there's one). There are actually many positives in having 2 homes.

To Anita:
Sorry if your father was a disappointment. My father was like most of the father's in my family and those of my friends. My life would have been very sad and different were he not an everyday part of life. His presence mattered very much in creating the security and completeness of my childhood. I never saw it is exceptional. I assumed that it was just normal.

My kids have a step father and spend 50/50 time with their dad. My ex and I are happier apart but we both know that this is not the life that we experienced nor is it the life that we wanted for our kids.

We work hard to make the cop parenting work, and our kids are happy and well adjusted, but that does not mean that there are not things that they miss. We recognize that the decision to divorce was good for us , but we have never deluded ourselves into thinking that this was best for our children. Given our decision to divorce, we have made a choice to make the transition the best one possible for our children.

@Tiredoftattler if your father's presence was so important to your childhood, why do you advocate for OPs husband holding off doing anything with his youngest when the others aren't there? Many people with "together parents" do grow up feeling like their fathers were largely absent/never wanted to do anything with them. That is what is likely to happen to the youngest child, to compensate to the older children for something that wasn't the youngest's fault and never really should have been an issue anyway.

Bearing in mind the father of the second family child is likely to be working lots of hours to support two households I very much doubt that second family child is enjoying some idyllic lifestyle of being tucked in every night and being gazed at adoringly

I grew up in a "together" family household and wished for nothing more than for my mum to leave my dad. I'm currently undergoing my second round of counselling to try and deal with the damage my parents caused me with their dysfunctional family dynamic. Kids get their security from the way their parents communicate and behave around them whether together or apart.

I don't understand the logic that it's better for the children to have had their parents stay together.

It depends on the parents surely. Mine were absolutely toxic together, but good parents separately. My life was far calmer and happier when they had divorced!

*To Anita:
Sorry if your father was a disappointment. My father was like most of the father's in my family and those of my friends. *

My father was not a dissapointment, his own father was killed and he didn't know how to be an adoring father, but he loved us. And many fathers I see around are not like yours, they just do what they can. And just like mentionned above, yes, many have to work harder to support previous kids, so have less time for the new kids. It is certainly the case with my DP who barely had time for our toddler. And I had to talk to him seriously saying that just because he lives with him doesn't mean he gets quality time with him.
If the OP's husband was like your father, he would give his best to the resident child, his previous children don't lose anything when he does.

@MyCatHatesEverybody

Bearing in mind the father of the second family child is likely to be working lots of hours to support two households I very much doubt that second family child is enjoying some idyllic lifestyle of being tucked in every night and being gazed at adoringly

I grew up in a "together" family household and wished for nothing more than for my mum to leave my dad. I'm currently undergoing my second round of counselling to try and deal with the damage my parents caused me with their dysfunctional family dynamic. Kids get their security from the way their parents communicate and behave around them whether together or apart.

Children have a better chance of being gazed at adoringly when they don't live with the father.

@Magda72 well said, exactly

To Anuta77:
My father had to work long hours and often go into his office on the weekend. For him that was the price to pay for having the number of children that he chose to have.
Sometimes he would have to say to us "I awe cannot do this or that until I am off from work." At other times he would say " we will do that on the weekend when your brother does not have football practice or when your sister does not have a cheer competition. "

We learned early that deferred gratification was not denied gratification and that the fair was as much fun on Sunday as it was on Friday evening. We learned that my father tried to be fair , and in his effort to be fair, we never felt cheated , marginalized or unloved.

A man who has children in 2 families is not working any harder to support his children than any other man who has only the number of children that he can adequately support.

In teaching us that sometimes we had to wait to do somethings and that not every experience could be had at a time we might have preferred, my dad taught us valuable life lessons. We never felt unloved or less than because we had to wait a bit to have or to do somethings.

My siblings and I are all very close due in no small part to the way that we were patented. We delight and share in each others accomplishments, celebrate each others joys, and suffer each others pains and disappointments. Envy and comparisons were not a part of our sibling experience.

The OPs child is very young and she probably finds joy in the simplest things . Hopefully, she will be allowed to have a relationship with her father and siblings that won't be tainted by the views of others.

Life is far too short to have unnecessary and somewhat meaningless drama. We should sweat the big things but not borrow misery where it may not exist.

Life is far too short to have unnecessary and somewhat meaningless drama. We should sweat the big things but not borrow misery where it may not exist

That’s fine, so the next time the family are out for a nice walk and spot a simple little treat to enjoy together then they should just do it when the mood strikes and skip all this hand wringing nonsense then, can’t they?

That’s fine, so the next time the family are out for a nice walk and spot a simple little treat to enjoy together then they should just do it when the mood strikes and skip all this hand wringing nonsense then, can’t they?

My thoughts exactly.

To a SofaNearYou:
It sounds as though that is exactly what is happening now. The mood is striking mom now and dad is saying the mood won't strike him until the weekend. An ice cream cone on a boat ride will probably seem the same to a toddler or very young child on either day.
It is not the child who is experiencing a feeling or sense of denial ; it is the parent assuming that the child is experiencing some sense of deprivation.

In either case, it is not a major problem to the young child but it does seen to matter to the parent of all three children. Ironically, it could actually be a situation that none of the children would give two hoots about, but the real drama might be alive and thriving within the parents.

Bearing in mind the father of the second family child is likely to be working lots of hours to support two households

Just spat my coffee out over that one. Firstly, more maintenance goes unpaid than paid and secondly, are you living in 1950? Thousands of women out there supporting their own households or who make a not insignificant contribution when they are part of a couple.

@Tiredoftattler it doesn't bother the child yet, and we don't know that not living with dad full time particularly bothers the older kids, either. Your comments about the woes of being a step child do not seem in line with someone who considers all this to be unnecessary drama. Adopting a "life's too short" mentality but only when it applies to things that might emotionally affect the youngest child is just a flowery way of only seeing things from your own perspective.

If there's every chance it might bother the oldest children that their dad can't do things with them all the time because he doesn't live with them full time, there is equally every chance it might go on to bother the youngest child that daddy was there but CHOSE to never do anything with them, and was actively disapproving about them having fun. If life is too short to worry about that then I'm sorry, but it's too short to worry about the step children objecting to their younger sibling doing anything when they aren't there, too.

Why do always have to speak extremes?

Of course most kids whose dad leave the household go on to miss them when they suddenly it get to see them eow. If they don't miss them specifically, they miss their normality.

But of course that doesn't mean that the father should never ever do anything with their youngest children.

In this instance, dad did do something with them since they went out as mum, dad, little one on day trip. What the little one missed out on is the boat trip. It is pity that dad considered that it was an activity he couldn't enjoy without his eldest. At the same time, we can't say that OP's child missed out on a day out with his dad.

@Tiredoftattler re: "A man who has children in 2 families is not working any harder to support his children than any other man who has only the number of children that he can adequately support" Logically it's going to cost much more to financially support children split across two households with two lots of basic utility bills, running costs etc than if those children were permanently resident in one household. It's also much easier to budget in a "together" family where all the money stays within your own household because you can cut back or prioritise as and when needed - obviously child maintenance is a non negotiable figure so yeah of course there's the potential for it to be harder.

@Enoughnowstop you misunderstand my point, this is nothing to do with some 1950s bullshit. Me saying the father working hard doesn't imply the women of the households are not working hard too - I just didn't mention the woman's role as it had no bearing on the point I was making which was to respond to the notion that dads have loads of time to spend with their resident children.

As for your assertion that more maintenance goes unpaid than paid, the figures on e.g. Gingerbread's website give the figure around half - SeparatedDads quotes a figure of around a third. Both organisations will obviously have their own agendas. However bearing in mind that their figures seem to relate to the CMS which will be a self-selecting database of deadbeat arseholes who won't willingly pay for their children (with exceptions) I don't think your assertion is true. Certainly the likes of my DH and others in my social circle who either pay maintenance plus extras without fail or who have genuine 50/50 care won't be captured in those figures - why would they?

To Don't Disturb Me Now:
My point is that neither the toddler nor the older children missed out on the boat ride. It was not a missed event , it was a deferred event. The toddler was not promised something that she wanted and subsequently lost, nor was it an event in which any of the children expressed an interest or desire to take part. The family unexpectedly encountered the boat ride while engaging in another activity.

Ultimately, what happened is that on a pleasant day outing , the wife say the boat and said "let us 3 do that". The husband said " no, I would rather wait to do that on the weekend when all of my children are with me."

You can maybe make a case that he is a somewhat scrappy husband, but in that scenario nothing suggests that he is a crappy father. The relationship that might need work is the husband - wife relationship not so much the father child relationship.

I would ask him if separating is what it takes for him to spend nice moments with your kids. Or one day your children will ask him themselves.

I think this is a good point. And a really sad one.

A child will feel like they aren’t entitled to fun with dad if it’s only ever allowed when the DSC are there. They’ll almost certainly get the message that they don’t matter and any fun they might experience with dad is just an accidental by product of fun planned for the DSC. What a way to build healthy self esteem.

This will especially be the case when the resident DC (as they so often do) seem to disappear into the background the second the golden DSC step through the door. After all, they’re not there all the time, so they need to be the main focus of their dad’s time and attention. So you get a child who is completely disadvantaged by living with their father: they barely exist when their (half) siblings are there but they can’t be allowed to do nice things when they’re not either.

It would be better and easier for those kids to live with mum, who can do fun things with them (easier without a husband making her feel guilty for not waiting for his other children) and they can spend EOW with a father where they can also be treated like a golden child who matters. Eventually most kids will figure this out.

I don't think your assertion is true. Certainly the likes of my DH and others in my social circle who either pay maintenance plus extras without fail or who have genuine 50/50 care won't be captured in those figures - why would they?

Why wouldn’t they? Gingerbread works on a survey of single parents (and obviously not all people due maintenance are actually single) and asks if maintenance is paid, not if the CMS is used to collect.

@Enoughnowstop a survey of which single parents though? How are the survey respondents chosen, how is the data is collected, does non payment by one father for multiple children count as one case or several? If it's Gingerbread's own survey then it'll be inherently biased in the same way as if a survey was conducted by Families Need Fathers to find out how many separated mothers block contact.

Don't get me wrong I am in no way an apologist for men (and it is mainly men) who either don't pay or underpay for their children - it's scumbags like that who give decent dads such as my DH and others I know a bad name. But I can't find any official figures to suggest that more NRPs dodge maintenance than not and it's certainly not my personal experience.