Advice needed - Step Parenting - feels like make or break. :(

[Mummafee]

I have been with husband 10 years and married 8. I have 2 children from previous (now 16f and 14m) and he has 1 (15f). We now have one together (6m) and I’m due a baby in 6 weeks...
My SD has always been really difficult towards me but I always tried harder and treated her with more love because I understood why she behaved the way she did. However over the years it got worse and she started to tell lies about me and also my children but still we continued to welcome her as again whilst it hurt I understood. However 3 years ago after an upset over something silly she went home to her mum and said I emotionally abused her. Complete nonsense and my husband was in the room at the time so backed me up that I never said what she said. However her mum loves the drama, hates me and said she was never coming to our house again..
So for the last 3 years my husband has met up with his daughter and taken her shopping, out for meals, cinema trips e.t.c on his own. She has had no contact with my kids or her half brother. During this time she has treated my husband horrendously and he has been in bits over it.

Anyway I said to my husband right at the start that now enough was enough and to put this right she needed to tell the truth about what happened. It’s not fair that her mother and his parents (who don’t speak to us anymore mainly because of all this) have believed these lies. However as she hasn’t wanted to come back this hasn’t been addressed.

Now though she wants to come back to our house (she’s not getting on with mum, she says dubious things to my husband about how she is treated by her step dad and mum (I imagine are lies) and she’s acting out and depressed.

However right I’m suffering from prenatal depression (not wanting to admit this here but it’s important to note), I’m 6 weeks of having a baby, I can hardly walk due to pregnancy, my youngest son doesn’t know who she is anymore, my two oldest don’t want her here (as she’s been so unkind in the past and has caused so much upset)...

But she wants to come back and her mum now says she can’t cope with her anymore so she has to come to us... like right now!

It’s been 3 years and the timing is crap. I’m really upset as I desperately do want things to be ok and to be a happy merged family but she’s caused nothing but upset and drama and I don’t want me or my kids around it right now. It seems whenever something important is happening she kicks off somehow...
but my husband is heart broken... how can I resolve this so that I consider the impact on everyone... I find it mind boggling that her and her mum think after all this she can just waltz back in to our home with the red carpet treatment and with excited faces waiting for her?? But then that’s her life.. she’s been a bit of a spoilt princess and doesn’t know consequences.
she also still hasn’t admitted she lied about what happened to her mum or her grandparents and she won’t now (and apparently I’m pathetic for even asking) so I feel the last 3 years of what we’ve been through and teaching her about boundaries and consequences is pointless.
All my children are well balanced lovely kids and I’m concerned the impact of having her around will cause them.
I’m also just holding myself together and I’m feeling very anxious about it all. I just want to focus on having and adjusting to having my baby and my kids adapting to this big change...
but instead she has once again made it about her. It’s hard not to feel angry. My husband I can tell is resentful towards me right now for not just bowing down like I have always in the past... or somehow magically making it all better (again like I normally do) but right now I just don’t feel I can.
It makes me wonder if it’s best to end my marriage to be honest... I thought this would get easier as she got older... part of me just thinks if I leave my husband I don’t have to put up with this ridiculous situation and the anxiety around it and nor do my children, My SD gets what she wants (her dad to herself) and my husband can have his daughter back in his life full time of he likes. But I love him and I know he loves me and doesn’t want to break up our family. I just can’t cope with it anymore. It’s been 10 years and I’m broken.
If your still with me here thank you. I really need support and advice. X

@justilou1

I honestly don’t think her father has it in him to stick to the level of parenting and consistent boundary-setting that this kid is going to need. He has already shifted responsibility to his current wife with the “I think you would be good for her” comment. It implies that she will be doing it all (again) and no doubt being in the same no-win situation. She is powerless.

This. He is going to trot of time work and leave you to deal with her. She’s already got an elevated position this is going to be a nightmare.

OP your an adult in control of your own life. You can absolutely say no.

I’d say no and take each day as it comes instead of thinking too much in to the future.

Just keep saying no so he knows your not happy about this. Can he afford to run to homes? I doubt that idea is very appealing to him.

He never stuck up for you in all those years. Why is he going to start now?

Your DH is focusing on DSD at the expense of everyone else.

That's not acceptable.

However it might be useful in how to address this.

Ask him why he thinks it would be a good idea to move DSD into a household of people who she has refused to see for the last 3 years and are understandably wary of her?

Surely he wants her to be in an environment with people who are receptive and welcoming rather than wary strangers?

Like it or not, her actions and his in pandering to them by meeting outside the home have alienated her from everyone else in the family.

Those relationships need to be rebuilt slowly if trust is ever going regained.

Moving her in without doing so is likely to damage those relationships irreparably - is that what he wants?

Something that strikes me is you fear that you can’t say no or it will mean ex can accuse you of not liking SD.
It’s perfectly fine not to like her. She hates you.
Someone suggested your husband asking SD now how she feels about you. She is adult enough to realise that moving into the house of someone she hates isn’t going to make her happy.
I endured years of lies from SD. As an adult she had therapy and told her dad everything she had said against me was a lie. Too late for me of course.
I was polite to her when she was with us , cared for her , bought things for her. But after years of her trouble making ( constantly insisting my DH divorce me ) I didn’t feel I had to like her

Can you access any support from social services? If needed, you can 'sell' this to your husband by pointing out that your Health Visitor will want to check you have a safe environment to have and raise your baby - a house with a vulnerable, volatile, teen who is self-harming (?) will raise some flags.

This is not at all to scare you or threaten you with social services - but they might be a good source of support or mediation to help your SD get back on track.

Does she actually want to come back to live you all, or is that her mum can't cope any more? What you might be able to do will depend a lot on that. If she wants to come back, you're in a bit of a stronger position to set out how it will be if she does. If she doesn't want to come I can see that you don't want her to feel like no one wants her.

and for you - it's a horrible position DH and his Ex have put you in.

You need to tell your DH that all this stress is making you feel ill and you can’t cope with SD living with you, especially with a new baby arriving soon. Unfortunately, you need to start getting tougher to protect yourself and your older DCs from SD. It’s ok to say no to a difficult, manipulative teen moving in. She has accused you of horrible things, she’s unstable and she clearly needs more support than you can give her. If DH is a decent man he will put your wellbeing first and tell his ex that SD moving in isn’t happening.

If he continues to put pressure on you he will have to move out in order to live with his DD so that the rest of your family can be kept safe.

I’m sorry that you are being put into such a difficult situation.

@Mummafee How are you today?

I’ve just remembered that another avenue of support will be your midwife, please do speak to them and explain what you have said here. You need to look after yourself too x

I have no advice or experience just a big for you as this sounds such an awful situation. You come across as balanced and kind - putting the your children first while still worrying over your SD who sounds like she’s really not in a good place. My friend is currently having a lot of issues with her bio daughter which I’m supporting her with and it’s exhausting.

BEST of luck with it all

@justilou1

Hi OP... just read the full thread and I am really, really angry with your DH for saying that he think you will be good for his DD. That is totally manipulative of him. (Trying to get his own way...) Especially when there is no expectation that this girl is going to acknowledge any damage done or that she is going to (possibly) be moving into YOUR house or abiding by YOUR rules. If that isn’t happening, how the actual fuck is anything going to be different?

Do you know what I think would be good? If you and her step-father could get together and compare notes. I bet you both have a lot to say about this kid and her relationship-splitting behaviour. You and he need to BOTH define stronger boundaries with your spouses and this poor kid so that she is no longer driving the bus. (And everyone needs to stop listening to the bloody grandparents!)

Gosh. That must have been quite a read for you. Bless you! I’ve been feeling a bit angry about this too. I think because I believe I’m a good mum to my DCs and have good relationships with them he thinks I could give that to his daughter too... And I did..for years! And a big part of me wants to help her but I can’t without addressing the other things like you say.
Unfortunately the Step dad on the other side isn’t approachable either... he turned up at my home one evening last year unannounced and just started shouting and swearing at my DH about what a disgusting dad he was and how he would be keeping SD away from him. My DH got angry and it nearly turned physical. I was so upset my DC had been subjected to this. They were worried as they had no clue what was going on. This is what I’m dealing with!

Although I wonder if I told him the stories my DH gets told from SD about him and her mum he might have something to say.

There is definitely something around boundaries that needs to be applied for the benefit of all of us... I just don’t think we can agree on what these should be at this point in time.

@laburnumtree

I agree with a lot of the other comments, just one thing I want to add - although I completely understand how you feel about wanting her to apologise I don't think she is old enough or mature enough to do so in any sort of genuine way. I think by you insisting on that as a 'condition' of her coming back it does make you seem a little unreasonable and detracts from the other very valid and important concerns you have (including the impact on your older DC if she was to lie again - eg if she was to claim your eldest DS had sexually abused her).

Perhaps a better approach would be for you to all agree that what is in the past is in the past and agree boundaries/rules for going forward. For this to work all of you (your DH, you and DSD) have to stick to that and not keep bringing up issues that happened years ago but focus on how it will be now with appropriate warnings to DSD about what will happen if she tells lies now and then if she does implement those consequences.

It sounds as if your DSD is really struggling emotionally/mentally and her mother is not dealing with it properly, she clearly needs professional help and I also agree that family therapy/mediation would be hugely helpful if family members will agree to it.

Hi, thank you for your post and your honesty. I am sadly still very hurt about what’s happened and I feel the very least I deserve is an apology. I want her to admit to lying as it shows there is less credibility to any future nonsense she might come out with. I guess your right though that I am likely not to get that now. I think she does need help for sure. Will be looking into family therapy.

I think you have to hold your nerve here. You have told your DH no previously and he appears to accept that though not be happy. Well you will just have to be ok with his not being happy. We can't all be ok about everything and this is about you, and four other children vs him and one child - AND he won't even have to look after her!!

So tell him you can't do it. Not with a newborn. It's not fair to have you dragged into therapists and family meetings. You are not her mum and you have your own things to deal with.

This is one of these things that if you say yes to it then you can probably kiss your marriage goodbye and you can definitely kiss your MH goodbye. So you have to tell him that he can spend all the time with her he wants to, you understand, but that you can not cope with her living with you at the moment.

If this is too hard for him to hear then he probably needs to rent a flat for the two of them. Except he can't because he works.. and he's not going to be there. That would be you. I'm afraid he's going to steamroller you into this and you will take on far too much. He's being very stupid and very selfish signing you up for this, at this point in time.

@Mummafee He says he’s really sorry for what he allowed and acknowledges that he should have handled things very differently.. and he says it would be different now.
I’m not sure if I can deal with the drama either anymore and I need to put my kids first. I’m at crossroads.

He's promising something he can't deliver. He's saying whatever he has to without thinking for one second how it affects you. He sees your great mothering and happy home and thinks his D could be part of that - except she can't because of who she is. Instead she will come in and destroy it, and you. You have to say no, and stick to it. There will be a big fuss then it will die down.

HE needs to parent her not you. HE needs to arrange to spend time with her and take her out. But no he wants to bring her into the home so YOU can do it!!! You have no authority, are treated like shit and she hates you! You are not the right person to look after her - and she wants her father not you. You are just an inconvenience- someone to be kicked, who will do housework but is not important or valued.

You can't take her to family therapy or even go, they have all made that clear. There was a poster earlier who works with children like this snd she was very clear it would be a dangerous move to bring her in. Read that post because it's 100% true.

@Flyingarcher

I have taught teens like your SD. Everything is a drama and the lies...in a school situation we would be very careful notto be on our own with this type of very vulnerable, damaged and troubled teen. The capacity for allegations, etc is huge so therefore pastoral, academic, support all has to be done two to one. Fortunately there are few that require this level but the thought of having this in your house...no...just no. She needs a phased, very gradual return, with very set boundaries that her father must stick to. Is it likely that her need to move to yours might subside once school starts again and she has lots more dramas to contend with. Your husband and his ex need to agree that their daughter is sadly very damaged. In my experience this comes about when there are inconsistencies matched with a particular personality type. She needs help and support, possibly from outside agencies and this takes a huge amount of work. I think your oldest two will feel really pissed off at her and she's not someone you could leave alone with the youngest. You have to safeguard the majority here while also trying to safeguard her too.

Sensible advice, thank you. I hadn’t been on my own with her for about 18 months before the last allegation because it wasn’t the first time she has told lied about me. You’ve made me think moving forward that this will indeed have to apply to all my DC too... incase something serious was said.

I do wonder if when school starts she will be less likely to want to come here. She has been quite isolated at home with mum whereas here there is always someone to hang out with and there seems to be this assumption from her that my DCs will want to hang out with her (sadly as it is right now they don’t)
This all has to be so carefully managed.. and like you and many others have said.. a gradual phased process.

@Flyingarcher

I have taught teens like your SD. Everything is a drama and the lies...in a school situation we would be very careful notto be on our own with this type of very vulnerable, damaged and troubled teen. The capacity for allegations, etc is huge so therefore pastoral, academic, support all has to be done two to one. Fortunately there are few that require this level but the thought of having this in your house...no...just no. She needs a phased, very gradual return, with very set boundaries that her father must stick to. Is it likely that her need to move to yours might subside once school starts again and she has lots more dramas to contend with. Your husband and his ex need to agree that their daughter is sadly very damaged. In my experience this comes about when there are inconsistencies matched with a particular personality type. She needs help and support, possibly from outside agencies and this takes a huge amount of work. I think your oldest two will feel really pissed off at her and she's not someone you could leave alone with the youngest. You have to safeguard the majority here while also trying to safeguard her too.

This. Read it carefully OP. She is a bomb that will blow your family apart.

You would be better off separating from your husband than living in a house with this girl. And you may need to do just that.

She has been with her mum for a long time. She needs to stay there and they need to sort it out and your DH needs to step up.

Ah crossed posts. Tell your DH it needs to go on hold for 6 months and he needs to spend more time with her (outside your home). Then you will discuss it.

Hopefully by then things will have changed, school will be bsck and his extra involvement and his organising family therapy will mean she's happy at mums.

@Iwonder08

OP, I know what I would do. You need to explain to your DH that of course it is important he reconnects to his daughter, however if you as a family considering moving her permanently with you, you must all be sure the atmosphere in the house will be good for everyone. You are about to have a baby and having regular conflicts and unpleasantness will do a lot of harm for everyone involved. As a prerequisite to her moving in you husband should talk to his daughter privately, find out how she feels about you. If she is still unhappy/angry etc then he should explain to her she can't live with him as it is your home too. If she doesn't feel angry with you anymore he must explain that is absolutely crucial she apologise for the lies. Doesn't need to be public, just to you

Hi. Thank you for your opinion. I haven’t actually asked him to ask her these questions so that would be interesting to find out... and maybe your right that the apology just needs to be to me.. and admitting she lied to those around her just isn’t going to happen. I just don’t know if she will and if she does if she’s sincere or not.. but I guess you know when someone apologises if they mean it.

@justilou1

I honestly don’t think her father has it in him to stick to the level of parenting and consistent boundary-setting that this kid is going to need. He has already shifted responsibility to his current wife with the “I think you would be good for her” comment. It implies that she will be doing it all (again) and no doubt being in the same no-win situation. She is powerless.

Yep I think this is a big part of my anxiety is trusting he’s with me in this and will be consistent and firm in what he says. He says it’s changed this time but I only have the past to base my experience on... I recognise that the problem here isn’t just a damaged 15 year old... DH and SDs mum have a lot to answer for.

You can't countenance moving get in until you know for sure she's stable and has a good attitude. She thinks your two will welcome her and they won't. Then what? That will make her far worse. She will see dad with a newborn and small child, that's going to trigger her too. Unless she is 100% the centre of his attention she will be angry.

They need to spend one to one time together for a number of months. Then be included in some family things (carefully monitored) and IF it goes well for everyone (and that includes you!) then she can start to stay over.

They sll have to prove yo you things have changed before you agree to anything. That's the bottom line.

I have experience of a stepchild who makes up lies which could get people in alot of trouble.
I have found letting him get away with it all only made him worse.
His mum would pretend he was an angel until he started making up lies about her.
After a pretty awful incident she finally opened her eyes, and got him help.
My dh only saw him for a while and when he was around us again he apologised to us for his behaviour.
He came back and was alot better, he still needs help but sourcing some help for his lieing and someone else teaching him about understanding the impact of his behaviour really helped.
His Dad and I had sat down with him many times to try and help him but actually I think sometimes someone else who isnt related to it all can make more of a difference, it seemed to make him understand more.

In your case I wouldnt have her to stay,
I understand your dhs predicament but unfortunately its something him and his ex have caused by letting her do as she pleases and get away with bad behaviour.
She has to learn her actions have consequences its not a game making up someone is abusing you when they aren't.
She has to learn to have empathy and realise the impact of everything that has happened.

Your dh and the ex have let this problem fester by not tackling it earlier on, they have to be the ones to solve it.

Take a step back and look after yourself and your babies

Sensible advice, thank you. I hadn’t been on my own with her for about 18 months before the last allegation because it wasn’t the first time she has told lied about me. You’ve made me think moving forward that this will indeed have to apply to all my DC too... incase something serious was said.

How is this going to possibly be achieved OP?

We still don't know what's happening with the schools (certainly for my DS and DSD the current expectation from the school
is that the children will only be in part of the week in a rota to enable social distancing).

As such there is a very real possibility you'll have to spend significant time alone with her when your DH is at work.

What about your other children? Are you expected to create some kind of rota so that they have a "buddy system" never to be alone with her?

It's utterly unworkable.

I agree with the poster below saying:

"HE needs to parent her not you. HE needs to arrange to spend time with her and take her out. But no he wants to bring her into the home so YOU can do it!!! You have no authority, are treated like shit and she hates you! You are not the right person to look after her - and she wants her father not you. You are just an inconvenience- someone to be kicked, who will do housework but is not important or valued. "

She's not going to apologise, don't hold out for that. It won't happen.

Her dad needs to have a conversation about the lies she told, she needs to know that you all know they were lies, and that they have had a serious impact on all of you personally and on family relationships.

I am really torn about her moving in. How devastating for a teenager to be told she can't live with her dad, even though she has been a nightmare.

I think I would suggest she comes for the day for a couple of weeks, then one overnight for a couple more weeks then an extra night etc. That buys you some time and everyone has a chance to get used to each other again. There's a small chance it won't be as bad as you think?

You and your dh have to be completely united. He has to 100% agree and commit. If he's not willing then he has to move out with her. You can't make it conditional on her behaviour, maybe she'll act up to get her dad to herself. You have to make it conditional on his behaviour. If he can't back you up and stamp on any unreasonable behaviour then he has to make arrangements for for her to live elsewhere. And if that's a hotel room or b&b with him in the short term then so be it.

And practically, have you got space for her? Would someone have to share a room?

Him moving out would be really shit for you and your kids but it seems like you're facing a shit time either way.

I've got a sd who has caused all sorts of issues over the years. She's a really unhappy person. I couldn't cope if she went from barely seeing us and being really unpleasant to us to wanting to move in. But I would be disappointed in Dh if he didn't step up and help her. Rock and a hard place op. It's a really tough situation for you.

Op - you can’t live with her. You can’t. How would it work? You can’t ever be alone with her in case she makes another false accusation. She is good at false accusations. Despite the fact that their own child is telling them that it was a lie her grandparents believed her last one.

If she makes another false accusation about you and your husband wasn’t there to witness then you could find yourself losing your job and your children.

You can’t risk this so you can never be alone with her. And neither can your children.

So how will that work? Will she be banned from the house unless your husband is home? And even if you do that what happens if he needs to run an errand? What happens if he needs a poo? She can’t live with you.

@AnneLovesGilbert

I agree with justilou.

Your husband chose to have this new baby too and he’s already in the process of trying to throw your 2, your shared son and the baby, plus you his wife, under the bus. If he was willing or able to create and maintain decent boundaries and expectations of his DD’s behaviour you wouldn’t have ended up here.

Did they have a court ordered or otherwise official contact arrangement? If so issues like her having a phone as a condition of coming to you when she was 8 shouldn’t have been such an issue. I know toxic parents will ignore contact schedules and when you’re up against an angry bitter or controlling ex life is very difficult, but he gave away his power and you’ve all suffered since because of it. You know you can’t trust him.

Hi there, I do feel like this yes and recently in one discussion I told him that I felt he has handled this whole situation badly and that I was angry at him for it and he did say he wishes he has listened to me years ago and was sorry.

No court order but we use to have her 50/50. But arrangements would often be made by SD and ex on ‘our time‘ to take her to her grandparents and stuff. It was ridiculous but anytime he stood up and said no his DD would just cry, ask for her mum or say she wouldn’t come anymore until she got her way and If we said no then the ex would poison DD about how awful we were to treat her this way. So yes he definitely did give away his power absolutely... his DD was his world and he couldn’t bare to upset or be without her so just use to do what they said. He realises that wasn’t the best thing to do now. But I am worried if he doesn’t stand firm this time that nothing has changed.

I have been with husband 10 years and married 8. I have 2 children from previous (now 16f and 14m) and he has 1 (15f). We now have one together (6m) and I’m due a baby in 6 weeks...

Seems like you both neglected dealing with the child who was already showing signs of adjustment issues and just carried on playing out the 'happy families' act.

The lazy father who couldn't be arsed dealing with his only child chose to neglect her in favour of creating a new 'family'.
Now he's in a position where it's become obvious that neither he nor his ex are fit parents and are more concerned with their own wants rather than their only child's needs.

So he acts like he doesn't know what to do....and passes all the responsibility onto YOU.
He doesn't give two hoots about how you feel - or your kids.

YOU - with two children who you take full responsibility for...are now EXPECTED to parent his child (cos he hasn't a clue does he?)... and you'll be the one doing the majority of care for your new baby too.