Advice needed - Step Parenting - feels like make or break. :(

[Mummafee]

I have been with husband 10 years and married 8. I have 2 children from previous (now 16f and 14m) and he has 1 (15f). We now have one together (6m) and I’m due a baby in 6 weeks...
My SD has always been really difficult towards me but I always tried harder and treated her with more love because I understood why she behaved the way she did. However over the years it got worse and she started to tell lies about me and also my children but still we continued to welcome her as again whilst it hurt I understood. However 3 years ago after an upset over something silly she went home to her mum and said I emotionally abused her. Complete nonsense and my husband was in the room at the time so backed me up that I never said what she said. However her mum loves the drama, hates me and said she was never coming to our house again..
So for the last 3 years my husband has met up with his daughter and taken her shopping, out for meals, cinema trips e.t.c on his own. She has had no contact with my kids or her half brother. During this time she has treated my husband horrendously and he has been in bits over it.

Anyway I said to my husband right at the start that now enough was enough and to put this right she needed to tell the truth about what happened. It’s not fair that her mother and his parents (who don’t speak to us anymore mainly because of all this) have believed these lies. However as she hasn’t wanted to come back this hasn’t been addressed.

Now though she wants to come back to our house (she’s not getting on with mum, she says dubious things to my husband about how she is treated by her step dad and mum (I imagine are lies) and she’s acting out and depressed.

However right I’m suffering from prenatal depression (not wanting to admit this here but it’s important to note), I’m 6 weeks of having a baby, I can hardly walk due to pregnancy, my youngest son doesn’t know who she is anymore, my two oldest don’t want her here (as she’s been so unkind in the past and has caused so much upset)...

But she wants to come back and her mum now says she can’t cope with her anymore so she has to come to us... like right now!

It’s been 3 years and the timing is crap. I’m really upset as I desperately do want things to be ok and to be a happy merged family but she’s caused nothing but upset and drama and I don’t want me or my kids around it right now. It seems whenever something important is happening she kicks off somehow...
but my husband is heart broken... how can I resolve this so that I consider the impact on everyone... I find it mind boggling that her and her mum think after all this she can just waltz back in to our home with the red carpet treatment and with excited faces waiting for her?? But then that’s her life.. she’s been a bit of a spoilt princess and doesn’t know consequences.
she also still hasn’t admitted she lied about what happened to her mum or her grandparents and she won’t now (and apparently I’m pathetic for even asking) so I feel the last 3 years of what we’ve been through and teaching her about boundaries and consequences is pointless.
All my children are well balanced lovely kids and I’m concerned the impact of having her around will cause them.
I’m also just holding myself together and I’m feeling very anxious about it all. I just want to focus on having and adjusting to having my baby and my kids adapting to this big change...
but instead she has once again made it about her. It’s hard not to feel angry. My husband I can tell is resentful towards me right now for not just bowing down like I have always in the past... or somehow magically making it all better (again like I normally do) but right now I just don’t feel I can.
It makes me wonder if it’s best to end my marriage to be honest... I thought this would get easier as she got older... part of me just thinks if I leave my husband I don’t have to put up with this ridiculous situation and the anxiety around it and nor do my children, My SD gets what she wants (her dad to herself) and my husband can have his daughter back in his life full time of he likes. But I love him and I know he loves me and doesn’t want to break up our family. I just can’t cope with it anymore. It’s been 10 years and I’m broken.
If your still with me here thank you. I really need support and advice. X

Tattler what makes you think the DH will go to court to get overnight visitation of his 6yo when he couldn't be arsed for 3 years (and beyond as he was just going to accept it for however long) to get overnights with his daughter? I'm guessing by your use of language you are in the US, maybe there are some cultural influences in your responses.

As for OP becoming a single parent to 4 children - I'm sure it'll be a hell of a lot easier for her than becoming the parent responsible for 5 children, one of whom she won't actually be allowed to parent which is the entire crux of this whole sorry shit show.

OP channel the anger. I'm sure there are a few sections of this thread which you've read and thought Omg yes, that is exactly how I feel, what he is doing etc so please do construct your letter using the things that stand out.

I also found using examples of the difference in behaviour to the children helped both of us. I. E. When DSD done x you done y (nothing) but when DD done x you done zzz.... I am sure you will be able to think of similar situations to use.

I hope the MW has called now and you are accessing the support you need x

I’m wondering if he is forward planning with CM. If the idea has already crossed his mind that if he take ds and his dd then he could reduce work hours to be a stay at home dad and won’t have to pay you CM. He could in effect claim CM of his ex too.

To: My Cat Hates Everybody

I assumed that he has visitation for his daughter and he simply accepted the fact that his daughter opted not to come.
It was the husband who raised the spector of taking his son. I would think that a court would grant some kind of shared custody should it come to that.

I do not think that the husband wants to become a single parent ,but his statements about " all that he does for this family" suggest that he is not an indifferent parent. We have no idea what the financial situation of this family is . Nor do we know if the husband works to contribute to the maintenance of "all" of the children living in the household. We do not know who owns the property in which they live or how the property is entailed. There is much that we do not know ,and as such all of our various responses are coming from a very limited and under informed perspective.

The one thing that we do know is that none of us voicing our varied opinions will have any input into the outcome , nor will we have to live with the outcomes.

Limiting responses to those that only offer a point of view with which you agree is one way in which to ensure that there is no potential for growth and indicates that you are coming from a position of rigidity and inflexibility.

Ultimately, should they end up in court, it will only matter what the law mandates and that won't be a matter of consensus .

Why are we arguing? We are all offering points of view. It is not some competitive sport and some winner is going to be declared.

This situation seems to be headed in a direction where everyone is going to lose.

I have no stake in being right or wrong. I was only offering my thoughts and opinions. I am not disputing your opinion. If there was only one solution to every problem then there would be far fewer problems in the world.

It's far to early to discuss court action!!! They haven't even split up! It's too much to consider right now. When too many major things are going on. Take it a step at a time. Write your letter see his reaction. Discuss it from there. There is plenty of time to consider childcare arrangements, now is not the time. Thinking of you op! X

Theres two things here.
Firstly, have you actually told him why you cant have SD, made it clear theres a path forward, & what that path is? Talked about timeframes, & her following your rules & pitching in, about her needing her own room, & about you needing a few months first. About needing to get some safety & security & knowing that she is going to do her best? Have you discussed with him the fact that at first no one apart from him can be alone with her & how hes going to handle that? Will he committ to getting her help? Professional help?

Secondly have you discussed with him what SD wants, as in does she want to be around you? Or does she just want to live with daddy & everyone else is just an inconvenience? Does she actually want to be part of your family? What will happen if she doesnt?

Without those two conversations, & an answer neither one of you is giving the other (or SD) a chance. He needs to answer those questions truthfully not throw a tantrum. She needs to answer them too. You need to hear from her shes willing to fit in. Have you had an adult, calm conversation with him & covered these points? ALL of them?

Forget for now about acknowledgements & apologies, they come next. These are the basics. If you cant even have that discussion & sit down with SD & have her tell you that yes she wants to be part of it, & yes she will do as you ask then its all just fucking pointless. You cant move her in only to discover she hates you & isnt going to follow the rules.

The second thing is his behaviour. Its very common for some people to accuse the person they are trying to get the better of of doing what they are doing. My ex business partner used to do it all the time & I could tell what was in his mind when he did. Hes projecting. Its also extremely unpleasant of him to go so low & to threaten you that way. So get your legal insurance in place, HV etc. Its abusive and every kind of low & if anyones moving out its him. He wont get your child.

Tattler I'm not arguing with you specifically, I'd happily offer opinions based on all the posts here but as you seem to be the only person encouraging the OP to martyr herself and her children to her bullying husband's wishes it may come across as me singling you out.

I assumed that he has visitation for his daughter and he simply accepted the fact that his daughter opted not to come.
OP said in her opening post that the mum "said she [DSD] was never coming to our house again.." His daughter was still young enough for him to have gone to court over it and whilst at that age she'd have had her wishes taken into account at least it would probably have flushed out the lies (or indeed the truth) about the abuse allegations.

I do not think that the husband wants to become a single parent ,but his statements about " all that he does for this family" suggest that he is not an indifferent parent.
Funnily enough my abusive exH also used to bang on about how much he did for me...

Limiting responses to those that only offer a point of view with which you agree is one way in which to ensure that there is no potential for growth and indicates that you are coming from a position of rigidity and inflexibility.
I agree. It's good that OP is being offered a variety of opinions. What doesn't help IMO is the implication that everyone in this situation is as bad as each other. OP needs to know that boundaries will be implemented for her DSD should she be reintroduced into her and her children's lives. If DSD refuses to acknowledge her lies OP is vulnerable to being subject to them again so OP needs to know that her DH has her back and expecting courtesy in her own home is not unreasonable. That expectation is nowhere in the same league as DH's expectation that OP should be forced to parent a hostile unhappy and troubled DSD whilst having no authority over her whatsoever. Call that rigid or inflexible as much as you like but like hell would I be accepting that if I were OP.

Interesting he called you "pathetic".

I note that this is exactly what he said his DD described you as when she said you "just need to get over it" in reference to the upset 3 years ago.

I'm starting to wonder (given you have only your DH's word for what was said) about who is actually saying what..

So why's he behaving so badly?

Well the reality is he knows he's powerless against Ex/DD and I bet he's having a hard time from them - probably along the lines of being under your thumb, emasculated and poor father. His ego is battered.

The only person he's able to exert any "control" over is you OP, because unlike with DS and Ex he actually has some "leverage" over you - in so far he's able to hurt you as badly as his Ex/DD hurt him.

He won't see it like that of course but my guess is he's rolling the hurt down the hill as it were.

Talk of taking your DS is a low blow. It's also bollocks. There is no way a Judge would do that to a mother suffering from PND who's activity getting support/treatment and been open with their midwife/HV.

He talks about loving you less and resenting you - well that's a two way street here.

He probably is fixated on this issue to the point it's blinding him from what he stands to lose if he can't make reasoned choices and compromises.

Nothing changes the fact that at 34 weeks pregnant, unable to walk properly and with symptoms of PND that you are capable of introducing a new and troubled (and she is new after a 3 year estrangement) to the family.

So yes, call your HV and speak very openly about your situation.

I would normally say a letter might be a good way forward but I think your DH is too far gone to see reason if it's coming from you.

So I'd also be looking urgently for mediation for you and your DH - with the virus many therapists are offering online services with might actually enjoy better for you.

Last thought - I know it's tempting to give in but you can't. The stakes are just too high here for yourself and your children.

OP I hope you're okay, this has been a horrible shock for you. Please speak to a Solicitor, and secure your place in the family home.

To: My Cat Hates Everybody
I think that the OP's husband 's expectation that she will parent his child is just so much white noise. It creates no obligation for the OP, and she should clearly articulate her unwillingness to do so.

I do think that there is the distinct possibility that both OP and her husband are equally at fault in this situation, and I do not think that OP would prevail in any legal situation in which she insisted that a 15 year old be barred from her father's home because she refuses to apologize for something that she said as a 12 year old (particularly if the child genuinely believes that she was subjected to emotional abuse). Effective boundaries in a home are only useful when they are the results of discussion and mutual agreement by both parties. No such mutual agreement has been reached. This is simply a situation with 2 people stating their individual demands. There has been no meeting of the minds and no mutually agreed upon terms. No boundaries have been established just 2 people insisting that they each are entitled to the terms that they wish to impose.

I do believe the OP ' stated demands and positions would not advanced her cause of case in a legal situation. I can envision a judge shaking his or her head in disbelief that a minor child is not being allowed into a home that her father is providing because she lies or won't apologize for a statement that she made as a 12 year old.
That belief may just reflect my naivete. If parents could legally bar their children from homes for lying or failing to provide nicely apologies , many children might be homeless. Also, I have serious doubts that the OP could convince a court that this girl posed an eminent threat to anyone in the household. A better case could be made to the court that the child has been subjected to a failed reasonable adult responses on the part of all of the adults involved in this situation.

I think that neither the OP nor her husband is prepared to be a single parent or sole provider for any of these children without some significant professional help.

I see all of these children as real victims of the dysfunctional behavior of all of the adults who have been and are continuing to fail them. Perhaps the saddest thing is that being unable to manage successfully the children that they currently have, they are willing to bring more children into this chaos.

Tattler I think that the OP's husband 's expectation that she will parent his child is just so much white noise. It creates no obligation for the OP, and she should clearly articulate her unwillingness to do so.

How is it white noise when what the DH is proposing is that his daughter moves into the house when for many hours of the day he himself won't be present? If OP finds herself in a legal situation because DSD does some serious self harm or makes further allegations of abuse whilst OP is the only adult present in the household, are you seriously saying she can tell the authorities "I had no obligation towards her"? And as for OP needing to clearly articulate her unwillingness to do so - it's precisely because she did exactly that which led to the torrent of abuse she received from her DH.

If parents could legally bar their children from homes for lying or failing to provide nicely apologies , many children might be homeless.
If we're going to talk legalities then as a non resident parent the father actually has no legal responsibility to provide a home for his daughter - he only needs to pay CMS at the appropriate amount hence their calculations including a level for zero overnights - it's legally condoned as an option.

Perhaps the saddest thing is that being unable to manage successfully the children that they currently have, they are willing to bring more children into this chaos.
Perhaps you'd like to lend OP your time machine?

You are a victim blamer.

'You are a victim blamer.'

I totally agree!

To: My Cat Hates Everybody:
The OP's NRP husband has the same moral obligation to all 3 of his children. Parents have both legal and moral obligations to their children. People of good character expect to meet both of those obligations.
As for the time machine, if you read the thread closely, the OP says that these problems were ongoing for many years. Cetrainly, the problems pre-dated her current pregnancy by many years.

I do not see either the OP or her husband as victims. I see them both as adults with equal responsibility in creating this situation. Acknowledging the role that they both played in creating this situation is not placing blame. It is saying that the current situation is one of their very own creation. Both of them have entitled and unreasonable expectations as relates to the other.

The only victims in this situation are the 5 children who are expected to live in this chaotic situation.

The UP unlike her husband can use her pregnancy as a shield of sorts, but both of these people have known the circumstances in which they were living and both felt that while they could not resolve their ongoing problems that it was perfectly acceptable to add yet another life to this confusion and chaos.

That is not blaming them; that is simply acknowledging what they chose to do.

@Tiredoftattler
I’m curious... what’s your set up or experience on these matters??
And if you were me what would you do?

@Tiredoftattler
What exactly is unreasonable about the OPs position of wanting to protect herself and her children?

Gosh, the air must be thin up their on the moral high ground you have created for yourself. You are a victim blamer. You are blaming OP for the abuse she is being subjected to currently by her husband and previously by her step monster.

Don't ever post on step parenting forum Mummafee

It is haunted by ex wives with an agenda who spend their day looking for post like yours...

I am a step mother. All my DsC have CHOSEN to live with us as soon as the courts allowed their own decisions..

My answer is No.. she can't come back.. too many other kids lives will be impacted

The UP unlike her husband can use her pregnancy as a shield of sorts

Tattler You're implying that OP is unfairly able to utilise her unborn baby as a shield...what the hell are you on to make such a despicable comment?

Yes I have obviously read the thread closely and know there have been issues for some time. But neither you or I know or are entitled to know the circumstances around OP's pregnancy and even if we did it makes fuck all difference to whether OP should agree to making her and her DC's vulnerable to further lies, disrespect and theft of property.

Why don't you take your victim blaming onto every thread in Relationships where a woman has had a child within an abusive marriage and tell her she's equally culpable? You can ignore all the dynamics around how and why someone becomes a victim of abuse there, too.

I'm not going engage with you any further.

Can I ask a big favour of everyone? Can we stop replying to tattler? Every post she/he makes is just complete rubbish and it's filling up page after page. I can't even be arsed ready them after I made the mistake of reading the first two.

It's just completely detracting from what's actually going on here with the OP. Not that I'm trying to tell you all what to do, it's just that, y'know, it's just fucking boring and your carefully considered replies will make no difference...

If I were in the NRP's situation , I would have left the house as soon as my spouse told me that my child was not allowed to stay with me in a house that I was providing for both her children and our children.

As the NRP , I would have not permitted my ex to dictate the terms under which I would see my child.

As the NPR, I would have taken my child to a therapist and I would have insisted that my wife see a therapist as well. Recognizing that I could not force my spouse to see a therapist, I would have lived apart until such time as she agreed to see a therapist.

As the NRP, I would hope that I could recognize my role in creating this totally dysfunctional situation, and I too would have sought therapy.

As the OP, I would hope that I would have been able to specifically articulate and provide proof of any eminent threats and danger that I was claiming that either myself or my children were being subjected. I might even have asked the police or mental health providers if in fact we were in any kind of danger. I might also have asked my teenage son and daughter if they felt threatened. Finding someone to be an unpleasant housemate and not wanting to share a room with them is a far cry from feeling that you are in danger.

If I were either the OP or the NRP, I would hope that I was more mature than an angry 12 year old and that I would not carry a grudge for 3 years related to the angry words of a 12 year old. I would hope that I would not condition something as important as a child visiting her parent upon something as insignificant as my receiving an apology for an angry statement made by a 12 year old. Someone has to be the adult.

Even with the restrictions of this pandemic, I would hope that at a minimum , I would have sought help even if it were in the form of tele-therapy. Both a pregnant woman and a healthy man can participate in tele-therapy.

I do not think that I am being any more judgemental than other people who are criticizing the husband or the step daughter. We are all forming opinions based upon the story as presented.

I do think that we would all like to see a good resolution for all involved.

I would also hope and pray for the wisdom to recognize that which is truly significant and the ability to let go of that which matters less.

In the end , rather than wanting to bright or validated, I would want to land in the right place.

@Vodkacranberryplease

Can I ask a big favour of everyone? Can we stop replying to tattler? Every post she/he makes is just complete rubbish and it's filling up page after page. I can't even be arsed ready them after I made the mistake of reading the first two.

It's just completely detracting from what's actually going on here with the OP. Not that I'm trying to tell you all what to do, it's just that, y'know, it's just fucking boring and your carefully considered replies will make no difference...

This^

'Can I ask a big favour of everyone? Can we stop replying to tattler? Every post she/he makes is just complete rubbish and it's filling up page after page. I can't even be arsed ready them after I made the mistake of reading the first two.

It's just completely detracting from what's actually going on here with the OP. Not that I'm trying to tell you all what to do, it's just that, y'know, it's just fucking boring and your carefully considered replies will make no difference...'

Couldn't agree more!

@Tiredoftattler

If I were in the NRP's situation , I would have left the house as soon as my spouse told me that my child was not allowed to stay with me in a house that I was providing for both her children and our children.

As the NRP , I would have not permitted my ex to dictate the terms under which I would see my child.

As the NPR, I would have taken my child to a therapist and I would have insisted that my wife see a therapist as well. Recognizing that I could not force my spouse to see a therapist, I would have lived apart until such time as she agreed to see a therapist.

As the NRP, I would hope that I could recognize my role in creating this totally dysfunctional situation, and I too would have sought therapy.

As the OP, I would hope that I would have been able to specifically articulate and provide proof of any eminent threats and danger that I was claiming that either myself or my children were being subjected. I might even have asked the police or mental health providers if in fact we were in any kind of danger. I might also have asked my teenage son and daughter if they felt threatened. Finding someone to be an unpleasant housemate and not wanting to share a room with them is a far cry from feeling that you are in danger.

If I were either the OP or the NRP, I would hope that I was more mature than an angry 12 year old and that I would not carry a grudge for 3 years related to the angry words of a 12 year old. I would hope that I would not condition something as important as a child visiting her parent upon something as insignificant as my receiving an apology for an angry statement made by a 12 year old. Someone has to be the adult.

Even with the restrictions of this pandemic, I would hope that at a minimum , I would have sought help even if it were in the form of tele-therapy. Both a pregnant woman and a healthy man can participate in tele-therapy.

I do not think that I am being any more judgemental than other people who are criticizing the husband or the step daughter. We are all forming opinions based upon the story as presented.

I do think that we would all like to see a good resolution for all involved.

I would also hope and pray for the wisdom to recognize that which is truly significant and the ability to let go of that which matters less.

In the end , rather than wanting to bright or validated, I would want to land in the right place.

I didn’t ask what you would have done in your magical time machine... (because that’s really helpful- not) I asked what you would do now? Also I asked what your experience is on such matters and you haven’t answered...

I am not offended by your opinion as such, some have been really interesting points. I am however offended by your condescending, know it all, high and mighty, long winded posts filled with huge assumptions and judgements. I’m not on here for a judge and jury case for me, my DH, my DC or even my SD... And why the hell are you jumping the gun and ranting on and on about court cases and visitation steps.... eh?!

“Perhaps the saddest thing is that being unable to manage successfully the children that they currently have, they are willing to bring more children into this chaos”

and this quote?? Wow! You know absolutely nothing and I don’t need to explain or answer to you.

Some of your points have given me something to think about but I would rather you didn’t waste anymore of your time on here. I have never used a forum before and I came here for help and guidance... I’m sorry but your approach about should of, would have, could have is not very helpful. You also seem to be very black and white about things.
Im assuming from your posts you are perfect and have a perfect life and have never made a mistake. Well bravo you. I wish you a continued perfect life but please stop wasting time posting about mine.

I'm only going to address @Tiredoftattler once - I haven't addressed her before - & then I'll leave it there.
@Tiredoftattler you are detailing what is a very serious post & issue, so at this point you should really stay out of it.
What we have here is a heavily pregnant woman being verbally & psychologically abused by her H. At this point what happened 3 years ago is pretty irrelevant. Even if op was the biggest bitch to ever walk the earth she is carrying another person, her HUSBANDS child, & to that end her heath & the health of the baby should be his first priority; should be everyone who is related to this baby's priority & that includes siblings & grandparents. In any context, but specifically in this one, his behaviour & actions are despicable & you coming on here nitpicking about past events & staying what you would do as NRP or OP is pointless & a massive waste of this space.
One of the main reasons people don't speak up about psychological abuse is that people like you fail to comprehend it or even accept it's existence - & that's what's known as victim blaming!

@Mummafee Nooooo....... don't feed the troll!!!

And just don't read the posts. They are the biggest pile of shit I think I've ever seen on MN anc that's saying something.

Now, have you had that calm conversation with the H yet or is he still blocking out everything that isn't "yes dear of course she can move in, straight awsy"?

This is about you op and advice for your situation, we need a whole new thread for the narcissistic troll that shall not be named in the 'mental health should be put in a high tower away from humanity section.'

Hope today has been calmer and some the emotion from the other day has settled and you are making some inroads with your husband.