University expenses dilemma

[Iwonder08]

Dear All,

I would appreciate your opinion on the dilemma.

My husband of 3 years has 2 sons, 16 and 19, we have a newborn together.
19yo DSS will start uni in September.
Strangely enough neither my DH nor DSS ever tried to actually calculate the student dept DSS will have after graduating considering both uni fees and a maintenance loan. Both DSS and DH thought it is unlikely he will go to uni due to having bad grades, but 1 uni accepted him with all Cs.
Now DH is debating whether he should pay for DSS's accommodation (£6k/year) in order to reduce his student debt.
Child maintenance he pays now is quite high, it will be reduced a bit when SDD starts uni. The reduction is significantly less than £6k/year he is considering for the student accommodation.
£6k/year is technically possible, but will leave no disposable income for DH which means all the unplanned/emergency expenses, holidays, realistically more than 50% of the childcare costs when I go back to work in several months will have to be covered by me. We didn't go through the details yet, it all came very sudden yesterday.
I have never been in the situation before, my parents haven't supported me through uni, I had jobs. I honestly don't know if it is reasonable approach and should be expected or is my DH is reacting this way due to this unexpected place at uni when he didn't have high expectations before..

[hsegfiugseskufh]

How am i a walking mumsnet cliche by not thinking its normal to give your adult children spare cash when theyre not actually in need?

[NotBeingRobbed]

I can’t particularly afford it. I’m using some savings and some income but I do believe there was no point supporting him through school if I don’t help now. I only got the minimum grant at uni (a much better arrangement than now) and my parents paid me money for accommodation. I’m paying the favour forwards.

When DS leaves uni he can live with me until he gets a job and can stand on his own two feet. Or he can go off to do his own thing. That’s how it worked for me too, I couldn’t wait to leave home after a year!

I think this is normal parenting. What isn’t normal any more is to say: “Right son, you’re 18 and I don’t have to pay for you any more. So I won’t.” Basically disowning your child. My ExH got full grant at uni and yet this is his attitude. He actually had a lot more disposable income at uni than my DS (or me).

My DS doesn’t party and studies hard.

I’m too old to be having a baby....but planned my children so I could afford them.

[NotBeingRobbed]

@Browniebronze is the voice of reason.

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

Yes he should pay. He had existing children to support before deciding to have another and the older children shouldn’t have to go without to finance that decision.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

icecream have you actually read the thread? Hes not going without at all.

[brightfutureahead]

What makes this subject more complicated is when you have a child going to uni who is in a blended family.
What if the “rp” earns 100k and the nrp earns 20k? I don’t think it’s fair that because the child going to uni wasn’t entitled to a student loan due to the rp being a high earner, that there is an expectation that the nrp should pay more. I think in that situation, any maintenance they were paying should now go directly to the child.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

If the rp earns 5 times as much as the nrp i think the rp should be funding the child as they can clearly afford it whereas the nrp probably cant.

I dont think maintenance should be paid for adults tbh.

[brightfutureahead]

I dont think maintenance should be paid for adults tbh.

Me neither to be honest.

Yes he should pay. He had existing children to support before deciding to have another and the older children shouldn’t have to go without to finance that decision.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have more than one child and not pay a substantial amount to pay for them all to go through uni. The op was well within her rights to have a child with her husband. And the thing is, it sounds like he’d be leaving the op to fund most of their young child’s costs so that he can pay for his older one to go to uni. So remind who is not provided for by their father again?

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I still want to know why the mother can’t work.

[NotBeingRobbed]

CMS cash ends when the child turns 18 or leaves school, whichever is later. So why does OP think the DSS will be getting maintenance?

[CircleCircleUnderOver]

If he gets maximum loan then parents aren't expected to support. No need to consider it.

I would give him an allowance equal to what you had been paying in child maintainance.

[swingofthings]

I'd feel guilty if my dd came from a household that brought in 60k and I expected her to work 60 hours a week in the holidays to pay her uni accommodation, yes
Expected? I don't expect her to do anything but she has a strong sense of independence. She is CHOOSING to work these hours, because she wants to earn as much as she can so she can also have fun whilst studying.

Interesting this assumption that because one young person is working long hours for some weeks, they are only doing so because they are deprived by their parents! I'm proud of her for trying to be as independent as possible. She is grateful for what she gets, not showing attitude that she should get more because of what her parents earn.

[bruffin]

This is the reason dd didnt go for welsh nhs bursary. Her loan overall would have been less than 20k, but maintensnce would have been only 3k, so nothing to live on as rent was 4.6k and she would be paying back the same as anyone else who has the same wages ie about £30 a month on earnings of 30k a year.
She gets 5k maintenance rent this year gone down to about 3.6k as out of halls and we sub her £50 a week.

[Medievalist]

Is a university place requiring only C grades worth having and getting into debt for? If he’s not academic it seems pointless. Perhaps a (debtfree) apprenticeship would be more appropriate?

^^ This

Thanks to Tony Blair and his crackpot plan to enable the world and his wife to go to university the whole experience has been vastly diluted, is now hugely expensive and encourages young people to think it's the only way forward when they would be better doing something else.

Universities are now all about getting bums on seats and making money. The quality of teaching and support is patchy at best. Mental health awareness is grim (look at the number of suicides, particularly at places like Bristol).
The cost of accommodation is ridiculous and at some places you can't opt for cheaper places because you don't get any of your 'choices'. £6k for 1st year, uncatered is not unusual - and don't imagine that's for a year. They'll want you out as soon as the summer term ends so it's £6k for less than 9 months.

I understand your HD's pride op, but honestly, it's really not hard to get into uni these days. Fair enough if dss was academic and had unexpectedly dropped grades. But you say he isn't. At uni the work will be harder and he won't have teachers making sure he keeps on top of work. He'll have to be self-motivated, good at managing his time and able to resist the many distractions when necessary.

Is this a useful course and one he has an aptitude for? Or is it a Mickey Mouse course at a not very good uni? Either way, I'd be encouraging him to take a year out to make sure it's really what he wants to do and not just a knee jerk reaction because that's what EVERYONE else is doing.

[Browniebronze]

Excellent. The 'mickey mouse course' poster has arrived. This thread has it all.

[Browniebronze]

swingofthings you said:

DD goes the minimum loan which wouldn't even pay her accommodation and that's staying at the cheapest possible, no shower or even basin in her room. She works PT during her studies and over 60h a week during the holidays. Still that wouldn't be enough for everything. Thankfully she's been left some money that she uses to pay for her accommodation. I pay half her car insurance (very old car, she does need it for when she works) and her mobile

It sounds as though you expect her to pay for her own living costs and accommodation. That is tight and unfair if you bring in 60k a year plus.

[Medievalist]

Excellent. The 'mickey mouse course' poster has arrived. This thread has it all

And your point is .....?

Are you saying that any course at any uni is worth the financial investment?

[growlingbear]

But @Browniebronze, Medievalist has a point. I know teens who felt completely screwed over by their unis. They pay all that money and then find they have only a couple of hours teaching a week. One, on a 9k pa fee, was expected to 'go out and take photographs and build your portfolio' for most of her days. Which she could do for free, living at home. People drop out of badly run courses but they don't get their money back. Some unis rook students. Or they allow many students in to vocational courses they know are massively over subscribed for industry demand. What do you do with a sound engineering degree if there are thirty qualified people for every unpaid internship in the industry?
It's not only valid, it's crucial to look at whether the course is worth the investment of time and money. Mickey Mouse courses do exist. It's disgraceful but it's true.

[Medievalist]

That is tight and unfair if you bring in 60k a year plus

How can you possibly state that when you have no idea about this poster's circumstances? £60k to a family with one child and low outgoings living in a cheap area of the country is not the same as £60k to a family with several children, and a high mortgage/rent living in London.

[swingofthings]

It sounds as though you expect her to pay for her own living costs and accommodation. That is tight and unfair if you bring in 60k a year plus
I expert her to contribute by working yes, but it's her choice to work such long hours to have extra money. Extra money she uses to go on holidays, concerts, out with friends, that is also enjoying her Uni years.

I actually asked her if she needed to work so many hours, but she's full of energy and is happy to do so. Her studies mean that she will be working these hours and longer in some years to come, so it's nothing exceptional for her.

[Medievalist]

Interesting article in the Guardian today about the cost of uni accommodation

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/aug/17/6000-a-year-for-a-room-if-i-were-a-student-id-probably-go-on-strike-too

[Ginger1982]

Is there no way he could stay at home and commute? Presumably you will be expecting him (and you) to cover uni expenses for your joint child later in life?

[Browniebronze]

And the 60k isn't very much if you live in London

Must be a full house by now.

Parental contribution is expected. It should be publicised more.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

I think it shouldn't be expected, actually. Maintenance loans shouldn't be based on parents income at all.

[Browniebronze]

Well, actually I agree with you. But sadly it is.